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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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Woodbeef
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Loc: Badlands of Alberta
Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype?
      #103666 - 27/04/08 10:48 AM

Never really paid much attention to these guns. I'm seeing alot of them for sale lately. Are they good choices or dogs? Some years better then others like with Winchesters?

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Ripp
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: Woodbeef]
      #103668 - 27/04/08 10:59 AM

you are going to get a ton of reponses on this one--with some being negative because a handle fell off or they don't have controlled feed actions, or whatever..IHMO, I think most of that is BS...I can only tell you on what I have seen and my own personal experience...

Each to his own, but I find it very interesting that MANY custom gun makers use their actions for the $5000. dollar custom gun...I have bought about every brand mentioned on this site and in most cases several at that ---all in all, in my experience.. they are very accurate and personally I have NEVER had a mechanical failure of any kind..and that is will owning probably 40 plus of them in calibers from .22 rimfire to .458 Win Mag...I still have probably 15 of them that all shoot 1" or less--most will do better than that..

While I also own the pricier doubles and custom rifles.. I have no problem with grabbing a Rem. and going out after anything that walks this planet...IMHO..

Ripp

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Bramble
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: Ripp]
      #103674 - 27/04/08 12:27 PM

Ripp

you are quite right. They function well, are pretty robust, and can be very accurate if given some work...
However they have all the emotional appeal for me of 2 foot of 3/4" gas pipe lashed to a 2 x 4


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albertan
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: Bramble]
      #103693 - 27/04/08 03:20 PM

The extractor of the Remington 700 gets a lot of bad press. If you have a 700
keep it clean. It is that simple. When 700's are refinished, the refinishing process is often caustic, and the extractor, being made of spring steel, corrodes and falls out, or breaks off. If you don't reblue your bolt, and keep it clean and lubricated, you will have no problems.

A lot of gun gurus blather on about Sako or M-16 style extractors being a cure all for a Model 700. I think if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

My only gripe with Model 700's for dangerous game rifles are that they are a PITA to load in a hurry compared to Rugers, Winchesters, CZ's, and just about everything else out there. Their magazine port is narrower that the competions. They feed upside down, sideways, and everyway, just fine though.


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Ripp
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: albertan]
      #103736 - 28/04/08 07:26 AM

Quote:

The extractor of the Remington 700 gets a lot of bad press. If you have a 700
keep it clean. It is that simple. When 700's are refinished, the refinishing process is often caustic, and the extractor, being made of spring steel, corrodes and falls out, or breaks off. If you don't reblue your bolt, and keep it clean and lubricated, you will have no problems.

A lot of gun gurus blather on about Sako or M-16 style extractors being a cure all for a Model 700. I think if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

My only gripe with Model 700's for dangerous game rifles are that they are a PITA to load in a hurry compared to Rugers, Winchesters, CZ's, and just about everything else out there. Their magazine port is narrower that the competions. They feed upside down, sideways, and everyway, just fine though.




Interested you bring the issue of feeding up--probably its because I have used that type of action for most of my life--and now I am working on a mauser .416 --but you can NOT just throw a cartridge in the barrel and slam it home with the mauser actioned rifle I have ==which I can do with my custom shop Remington---each to their own..but actually I can reload faster with the Remington than I can with the Mauser at this point--

As to extractors--funny thing there is I have never had one fail--but with all the bad press I did have the one on my .416 replaced with a Sako extractor..

Ripp

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buckeyeshooter
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: Ripp]
      #103747 - 28/04/08 08:04 AM

I like the ones I have. However, my newest one is from 1985, I have 4 700's in 308, 2 in 350RM and a 375 H+H.

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albertan
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: buckeyeshooter]
      #103760 - 28/04/08 10:25 AM

Hello Ripp,

Maybe I wasn't clear when I stated that Remington's take me longer to load than other actions. I mean that it takes me longer to put long, magnum sized cartridges into the magazine than it does with other actions. Once the cartridges are in the magazine, I have never had a problem with a Remington. In or out, or in any position, they feed well.

I can put 5, .458 shells into my CZ 550, plus one in the pipe a lot quicker than I can put 3 into my Remington in .375 H&H, let alone bugger around putting an extra round into the pipe on top of the other three. My Ruger's, Winchester's and Sako's (both AV's and 75's) are all quicker to stuff. The AV feeds and extracts better than any of them. The 75 is the worst. Probably a short mag thing.


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Grenadier
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: albertan]
      #103763 - 28/04/08 12:41 PM

GOOD AND HYPE - DEPENDING

Standard Remington 700's are in the same league as most rifles of similar cost. If you want an off-the rack rifle and pick up a nice BDL or similar model, then you will get your money's worth. It will almost always shoot well and sometimes you might get one that is very, very accurate. I have used some fine shooting military model 700s, some so-so, average Joe 700s, and I own one I need to get rid of because it is just plain junk.

There are reasons so many custom rifles are built on these actions. First, they have features that facilitate building a rifle: they are available for purchase as a bare action, they are easy to bed because the action is built from a tube, they are easy to barrel and headspace, and standard and custom parts are everywhere. Second, they lend themselves to "accurization" well: they are easy to "blue print" (true up), they are fairly rigid, and they have the best trigger and lock time of any standard rifle. Because of all the gunsmith friendly features, several well known makers are building guns on proprietary actions that are nothing more than modified copies of the model 700.

The US military sniper version of the 700 has a specially cut barrel with a special twist, "blue printed" action, special stock with built in aluminum bedding block, etc. It does a great job but it costs a lot more than one off the rack at WalMart. Many custom gunsmiths offer accurization services or complete custom rifles that have had the same type of specialty 700 work done to them. By contrast Mausers and Winchester 70's are more difficult and costly to get to shoot as accurately.

On the other hand, many of the cheaper versions of the 700 were pretty rough rifles without any special care. These were usually thrown into the cheapest of plastic stocks and sold to compete with the lowest priced rifles on the market. I have a 700 ADL chambered in 7x64 (YES they made a few). It is a piece of junk. Groups range from 6" at 100yds and go as large as 12" depending on the ammo. I have tried over a dozen factory loadings, most of which shoot very accurately in my two other 7x64 rifles. The front sight fell off between the 10th and 15th shot (it was held on by two screws) and the stock isn't fit for a toy.

You can buy one of the cheap 700s but all you'll get is junk. You can buy one of the higher grades of 700 and get your money's worth and a decent consumer grade rifle. And you can spend thousands more and buy a custom shop 700, or a gunsmith's custom made 700, and get one of the most accurate rifles available. But remember, the most accurate 700s use plastic or fiberglass stocks.

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hoppdoc
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: Grenadier]
      #103782 - 28/04/08 08:34 PM

Remingtons are OK guns for the money but you get what you pay for. Their safeties may be an area of concern.

My primary elk gun-a custom shop lightweight Remington Alaskan 300 ultra that shoots GREAT!!

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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szihn
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #103802 - 29/04/08 01:42 AM

Well Ripp, (and others too)
I used to do gunsmithing for 2 Remington service centers in Nevada years ago. I can assure you, it's not "BS".
I have re-soldered about 30 bolt handles back on and replaced about 40+ extractors. In both small and standard sized. (what I find strange is that I have never replaced on on the 222 head size, which seems as if it would be the one that would break most, being it has to flex .070" and it does so around the smallest radius)
Anyway.....

The bolt handles are something that you can't do anything about, but I will tell you what I would do if I were to buy a new Remington.
The silver soldered joint is extremely strong IF THE SOLDERING IS DONE RIGHT, but there's no way to see it. So I would take the bolt out of the rifle and put it in a padded vice with the handle end sticking out, and not supported by the vice jaws.
Take a rawhide or rubber mallet and smack it to try to break it off. If you can't, you never will.

There's about 1/2 square inch of contact area under the root of the bolt handle and if Remington did a good job in soldering it, the bolt handle would bend before the joint will break.
But if you get one that is not done right, it will fly across the room. Then send it in to Remington or one of their service centers and get it fixed right. Once it's right, it's right forever.

2nd thing to remember as if it were passed down on tablets of stone from on-high

ALWAYS put solvent on the bolt face when you are storing your rifle. Just Hoppies #9 is fine, but leave the bolt heads wet until you take them out to go hunting.

The solvent will dissolve the small brass shavings that always work their way behind the small extractors where you can't clean them out. If you leave the bolt head wet, the shavings just disappear. It's those shavings that bind the extractor up in a few years of use and then you get 20% of the extractor doing 100% of the work because 80% is bound up so it can't flex.

And Ripp, on your Mauser, you should cut a bevel on the front edge of your extractor so you can load the chamber. Mauser did that on many millions of military rifles just for that reason. The idea that you should "never do that" is illogical. Look at the length of the extractor on a Mauser and the understand it's flexing from the collar forward only as much as the depth of the shell groove. Look at a Remington M-700 and see the extractor has to flex the exact same amount, from the spring pin or from the rivit.
So if you flex a long spring .070" and a short spring .070" which one is flexing more in proportion to it's overall size? Which one is under more stress?
The Mauser is under FAR less stress then a Remington, every time you load the chamber and slam the bolt forward. (if the extractor is properly beveled) The Mausers that break extractors are the ones that are not properly beveled.

Happy hunting
Steve Zihn


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xausa
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: szihn]
      #103805 - 29/04/08 03:07 AM

During World War I, the Remington Arms company was heavily engaged in military rifle manufacture, first with the British designed P-14 Enfield in caliber .303, and then with the American Model of 1917, the same rifle modified to fire the .30-‘06 Springfield cartridge.After the war, Remington introduced a slightly modified version of the 1917 rifle as a sporting rifle.

Over the years, until World War II, Remington continued modifying the basic 1917 action, until it arrived at the Model 720, the most sophisticated of all Remington versions of the military rifle. At the same time, Winchester developed rifles based on the 1903 Springfield military rifle, first the Model 54, and the the Model 70.

After the war, Remington dropped the 720 in favor of an entirely new rifle, created by designer Mike Walker. The purpose behind the design was to create a new rifle which combined maximum ease and economy of production with maximum accuracy potential. The design was manufactured in two versions, a “standard” (.30-‘06 length) version called the 721, and a shorter version, designed to accomodate a new cartridge, also developed by Mike Walker, called the .222 Remington.

Mike Walker was first and foremost a bench rest shooter, and his design reflects the state of the art knowledge gained in the bench rest community with reference to the ultimate in accuracy. He succeeded admirably in achieving the two goals set for him by Remington, and in the single shot version of the 722 called the 40-X he produced a rifle which would rule the bench rest world until the advent of even more sophisticated custom made actions.

The 722 was not designed with the big game hunter in mind. The calibers it was offered in, .222 Remington, .222 Remington Magnum, .223 Remington, .243 Winchester, .244 Remington, .257 Roberts, .300 Savage, .308 Winchester were overwhelmingly varmint or benchrest calibers. They were cheap, popular and extremely accurate. Comparatively few .222 Magnum and .243 rifles were sold.

The 721, available in .264 Winchester Magnum, .270 Winchester, .280 Remington, and .30-‘06.

The engineering innovations of the new desgn were many. The receiver was cylindrical in shape and lacked a recoil lug, which was manufactured separately and sandwiched between the receiver and the barrel. To preserve maximum stiffness, minimum amounts of metal were removed from the loading port and the magazine well.

The round action was ideal for glass bedding. The breeching sustem included a bolt head which protruded into a counterbored breech, maximizing protection from escaping gas resulting from a pierced primer or case head separation. However, this safety feature was gained at a price. The cartridge case protrudes further from the chamber than either that of the Mauser or even the Springfield, with its conical breech design.


The counterbored breech also required the use of an extractor which was fitted inside the bolt face and relied on a tiny projection to achieve purchase with the cartridge case. The clearance between the bolt and the recessed breech is very tight, in the range of .010", which serves admirably to seal off gas, but also makes the action susceptible to jams as a result of unburned grains of powder, primer fragments or other trash entrapped in the counterbore. The bolt face is also subject to obturation, which means that under situations of high pressure, the bolt head can expand to meet the breech couterbore and lock the bolt firmly in place. Neither of these factors is present in a Mauser breeched action.

To ease manufacture further, the bolt is manufactured in five parts, which are then press fit or brazed together. This is a satisfactory solution in a bench rest or varmint rifle, but problematical in a big game rifle, since failure of any of these joints could have disastrous consequences.

The bolt handle presents difficulties, not because of inherent lack of strength of design, but because of manufacturing priorities. If sufficient brazing material is used to insure a positive connection between the bolt handle (which also incorporates the extracting cam), then it is not unlikely that some of the brazing material will be extruded outside the joint. This causes a cosmetic problem, because the brazing material will not blue, creating an unsightly contrast to the remainder of the blued portion of the bolt. Consequently, to prevent this extrusion, at least in the past, sufficient brazing material to insure a robust joint was not used, and in some instances bolt handles have been known to separate from the bolt body.

Because of the design of the bolt and extractor, the Remington action is what is known as a push feed type, which means that once the cartridge is stripped from the magazine, it is not controlled by the bolt and the extractor engages only after the cartridge is fully seated in the chamber. This is in direct contrast with the Mauser design, which feeds the cartridge out of the magazine and directly into the extractor, thus controlling the cartridge all the way through the cycle of the action.

The design of the safety on the 721-722 rifle reflects its bench rest heritage. Bench rest and target rifles generally do not need an operative safety, since the rifle is loaded only under controlled conditions, pointing down range at a target. The safety in the Remington rifle is incorporated in the trigger, which is certainly sufficient for bench rest, varmint or target shooting use, but is not optimum for the hunting field. The Mauser, Enfield, and Springfield and the Springfield’s commercial descendants, the Model 54 and Model 70 Winchester, all use cocking piece safeties, which positively lock the cocking piece and prevent the rifle from firing, no matter what is done to the trigger.

The Remington 721-722 rifle series was followed by a slightly upgraded version, the 725 and ultimately the 700 series, which featured a swept back bolt handle, a hinged magazine floorplate and other cosmetic improvements, but which remained in all other respects identical to its predecessors.

To sum up, the Remington design has features which are ideal for the protected environment of the bench rest, varmint hunting, and target shooting world, but are of questionable value or downright negatives in the big game hunting field, features which are not present in the various Mauser designs or their offspring, such as the Model 70 Winchester.

For instance, the Remington round action, which offers so much stiffness in its single shot version, loses out to the Model 70 action in stiffness, when the cut for the magazine is made. Model 70 actions, both early and new, far outnumber 40-X repeater actions on the firing line in high power rifle competition. Only in long range competition, where the magazine is not required, does the 40-X excell.

Moreover, although the latest version of the Model 70 does not have controlled feed and also incorporates an assembled bolt, there are differences. The Model 70 uses an extractor, which, although it is not a claw extractor like that of the Mauser 98, is also a Mauser design and is wide enough to achieve a substantial purchase on the cartridge case. Also, the method used to attach the bolt handle to the Model 70 bolt assures that under no circumstances could the joint, which is both press fit and brazed, fail. The latest version Model 70 Classic features both a Mauser style extractor and controlled feed..

In my opinion, the big game rifle, and particularly the rifle used to hunt dangerous game, should share with the military rifle the indespensible qualities of reliability, robustness, safety, accuracy and ergonomic design. In the case of the Remington rifle, I feel that some of these qualities have slighted in the interest of ease and economy of manufacture.

As the foregoing comments have shown, there are shooters who have used the Model 700 Remington for years, with no adverse experiences. My mother drove an automobile all of her life without ever wearing a seat belt, and died in her bed at an advanced age, having never been involved in an automobile accident. I hardly think that her experience is a valid argument for not wearing a seat belt.


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bigmaxx
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: xausa]
      #103829 - 29/04/08 02:01 PM

i have had some i really liked. i had a few issues with a 700 mountain in 7mm08. i sent it back because the stock had warped. they ground out a little wood and sent it back. i traded it soon after. i have had them in magnum calibers too. i had a 700 .416 remington mag i really liked. i traded it to an AH Fox 20 gauge and really wish i had the rifle back now! i personally like Ruger M77 rifles. my dad had one in '06. i still have it of course. i have them in calibers from .30-06 to .458 lott. i like the beefy mauser style action with the monstrous extractor. i have never had a failure from any of them. they are not target rifles or tactical rifles, they are hunting rifles. i have friends who trade off a rifle if it wont shoot ragged one hole groups at long range and the like. i sight in on the bench and then do a lot of offhand shooting and other practical real life shooting positions. that said i consider the M77s in general to be very accurate. i know there are alot of 700s that shoot those ragged holes though.

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Ripp
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: xausa]
      #103853 - 29/04/08 11:16 PM

xausa

In regards to the Winchesters--you mention that the new model 70's do not have controlled round feed--it was/is my understanding that the current issue in the S. Caroline plant IS a controlled round feed -pre-64 type action...

Ripp

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Grenadier
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: Ripp]
      #103854 - 29/04/08 11:44 PM

As so many have already said, you get what you pay for. If you buy a better grade of Rem 700 for general use and abuse then it's in the same general class as standard Winchesters, Savages, Rugers, and such. You can pay for the 700 to be accurized, better extractor, replacement bolt handle, special stock and bedding, better barrel, and on, and on. What you will end up with is a very decent rifle at a cost comparable to what you would pay for a nicer Mauser based higher end gun. If I only had a little to spend, I'd buy the standard 700 or Win 70 and leave it unchanged. If I had more to spend, I'd buy a better rifle that wouldn't need custom work.

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500Nitro
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: Ripp]
      #103856 - 29/04/08 11:53 PM

Quote:



Interested you bring the issue of feeding up--probably its because I have used that type of action for most of my life--and now I am working on a mauser .416 --but you can NOT just throw a cartridge in the barrel and slam it home with the mauser actioned rifle I have
Ripp





Ripp

Then get the Claw modified so that you can single load the Mauser 98. Any decent gunsmith should know what to do.
My 404, 500J and 505 Gibbs can all be Single Fed.


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Ripp
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #103859 - 30/04/08 12:26 AM

I actually brought it with me to work today to take it to the gunsmith for that--thanks for the info..appreciate it.

Ripp

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9.3x57
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: Ripp]
      #103863 - 30/04/08 01:06 AM

Not meaning to hijack the post here, but since the SAKO was already mentioned, has anyone ever heard of ANY recurring problem with a SAKO extractor? Reason I say it is that when we were jobbers for SAKO in the late '80's early '90's and sold hundreds of them, I never even heard of a single burp involving a SAKO extractor. I read of problems with converted Remingtons that use the SAKO extractor, but every mention involved a botched job of conversion, the trouble not being with the extractor but rather with poor conversion work. From a factory SAKO, never a problem at all.

Anybody else?

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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xausa
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: Ripp]
      #103868 - 30/04/08 01:22 AM

Ripp,

I'm not privy to that information, but should that be the case, then what they are manufacturing is the same as the action referred to as the "Classic" by the previous manufacturer, which I referred to in my long winded post.


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Ripp
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: xausa]
      #103875 - 30/04/08 03:20 AM

Based on what I saw and read --it is a true controlled round feed pre-64 action--which I plan to get a few of too build a couple of customs provided that is indeed the case..

Ripp

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albertan
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: Ripp]
      #103895 - 30/04/08 12:10 PM

I have found this thread informative to say the least. But, I do take issue with the statement that controlled round feeding controls the cartridge when feeding from the magazine into the chamber. The cartridge is well into the chamber before the extractor has fully engaged the cartridge. The round is 3\4 of the way in before full engagement is complete. In this respect, controlled round feeding is not the panacea that many believe it to be.

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xausa
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: albertan]
      #103904 - 30/04/08 01:55 PM

When I use the term controlled feeding, I do not mean to imply that the cartridge is under the control of the extractor throughout the forward movement of the bolt, but that it goes from the control of the magazine into the control of the extractor without interruption.

The chief virtue of controlled feeding is that it virtually eliminates the chance of double feeding, that is, the possibility that should the bolt be drawn back before the extractor has engaged, but after the cartridge is free of the magazine, there is the possibility of a second round being fed from the magazine when the bolt is moved forward again, a quite difficult situation to clear, since the second round will have to be removed before the bolt can complete seating the first cartridge in the chamber and engaging the extractor. Since the second cartridge will not have engaged the extractor either, removing it requires the shooter to give his full attention to removing the loose cartridge with his fingers, not a happy situation to be in when a quick second shot is called for.

This may seem far fetched, but I have seen it happen on the firing line in a rifle match. In my experience, if something can happen, it will happen, and at the worst possible moment.


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albertan
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: xausa]
      #103906 - 30/04/08 02:23 PM

I disagree with your statement that a controlled round unit cannot double feed. I stated previously that the extractor does not fully engage the cartridge until the round is well into the chamber. If you short stroke before engagement you will have a double round jam. Even with the finest Mauser made. I have played with enough of these to know that doubles can happen with any action. Until there is significant (not full) engagement of the extractor, the controlled round feed doesn't do anything that a pushfeed doesn't do.

I like controlled round feeders, don't get me wrong. I like pushfeeds that work as well.


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Ripp
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Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: albertan]
      #103922 - 30/04/08 09:36 PM


XAUSA

I reread the article on the new Winchester Model 70's coming back out this summer and they are indeed a "true pre-64 action"---the article indicated all is as before with the exception of a couple of improvements, one being a redesigned trigger..

Ripp

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States
Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: albertan]
      #103932 - 30/04/08 11:47 PM

One of the theoretical advantages of the Mauser-type CR feed system is that the extractor is, to some degree, "cleared" of debris every time the bolt is worked.

In theory, a push feed extractor that must snap over the rim and into the extractor groove can accumulate enough debris to where it is pushed OUT by the rim upon chambering but does not snap OVER and INTO the rim, thus leaving the round in the chamber.

In the Mauser system, the case moves up under the extractor as the bolt is pushed forward, the rim of the case pushing debris up and out of the gap between the extractor and the bolt face.

This same process can result in clearing debris from the extractor groove itself as might occur with dirty ammunition. Dirty ammo chambered in a PF can in theory prevent the extractor from gripping the rim.

How much this is a real advantage of the Mauser type I can't say, but the mechanical advantage exists in theory if not in actual fact. To my way of thinking this may be more important than the CR action of the feeding itself, because I have had double feeds in Mauser types and in push feeds.

All Mauser 98's or 98-type rifles are not alike in that some gain control of the rim more securely than others or possess a magazine that maintains control of the round longer than others, allowing the rim to slide up under the extractor groove at the last possible moment, a good thing. I monkey with every rifle I own to find its "weak links" {ALL of them seem to have them...} and I have found the strong magazine spring of my CZ550 {a 98-type} causes rounds to pop up with some force and the rifle can actually be made {with some effort} to double feed by working the bolt slowly while jiggling the gun a bit. That in conjunction with the fact that the extractor does not snap over the rim in a dropped-in round makes for potential mayhem. Forceful bolt manipulation has never resulted in a feed problem with this rifle. I have mentally gyrated over the possibility of a fellow trying to work the bolt quietly while crawling or some such activity where the rifle is not level and stationary.

Having said that, it takes some effort to get this to happen with that CZ and the gun is otherwise very reliable.

With push feeds I've tested, working the bolt slowly while the action is listing to one side or the other, or jolting and not stationary, makes for a pretty easy jam if the round pops up out of the magazine while the bolt is given a slight back and forth movement which results in, of course, the classic double feed.

The shorter the cartridge, the easier the double feed problem in my opinion. My Savage .223 can be made to double-feed very easily. "Take that" you aficionados of the short mags!! I'd way rather have the added length of my .375 H&H than a short stubby round of same performance due to this theoretical issue. Honestly tho, all of this is theory for the most part, but my problem with working a bolt is that I fear tearing it out of the rear of the action while working it fast more than short stroking it!! Thus I would side with with longer rounds for a DG rifle for this reason if I was buying one.

All of these gremlins CAN rear their heads, but DO they? I suspect not often, but Peter Paul and the engineering staff at Oberndorf and possibly the ordnance fellows with das Heer thought it important enough to put time and effort in the design of the controlled round feed system.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Remmington model 700 good choice or all hype? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #104024 - 01/05/08 10:57 PM

I find and read the issue of double feed very interesting in that this is a symptom I have been told had is as much operator error as mechanical. Whether that is the case or not, I have visited with those with both push feel and controlled that have experienced it...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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