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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifle Photos & Archive
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Anonymous
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Holland & Holland 500/450
      #99973 - 22/03/08 01:04 PM

Well we were just discussing T.R.'s double in another thread, and "poof" one appears in the same specs and vintage. God does work in mysterious ways, and he even made sure this one was priced properly.

WLM: http://www.williamlarkinmoore.com/Arrivals.htm

HOLLAND & HOLLAND, SxS Double Rifle, Royal "Deluxe", .500/.450 3 1/4" NE 480 grain bullet, 70 grains Cordite, 26'', DT, Pistol Grip with trap grip cap, Splinter Forearm with lever release, 1/4 rib with express sights, "Deluxe" Celtic style Ornamental Scroll Engraving, Silver's Pad with leather face, Extended top & bottom tangs, Gold line cocking indicators, Purdey style third fastener, Flip up ivory night sight, Good bores, 10# 8oz, all original and untouched, mfg. 1900.












Edited by DRarchive (30/07/08 09:31 PM)

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
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Re: H&H 500/450 [Re: ]
      #99975 - 22/03/08 01:22 PM

Unusual to find one that hasn't been rebarreled to 465
as quite a few of them were.

Nice, but I don't think that is a Royal Deluxe.

Another case of embellishment of the description ?


I thought Royal Deluxe's had Royal Deluxe" on the
bottom of the action.

Edited by 500Nitro (22/03/08 01:26 PM)

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500Nitro
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Re: H&H 500/450 [Re: 500Nitro]
      #99976 - 22/03/08 01:24 PM


Deleted

Edited by 500Nitro (22/03/08 01:28 PM)

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bonanza
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Re: H&H 500/450 [Re: 500Nitro]
      #99984 - 22/03/08 10:15 PM

I could live with that.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: H&H 500/450 [Re: bonanza]
      #99985 - 22/03/08 10:18 PM

Yeah, it could find a home in my gun box.

A beauty.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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dnovo
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Re: H&H 500/450 [Re: CptCurl]
      #99990 - 22/03/08 11:06 PM

The engraving style caught me on this gun. I am fascinated by the changing and distinct styles of DR engraving. The "Celtic" style that was 'hot' when this gun was built is fairly rare in surviving examples in this condition, at least from what has been offered on the market of late.

But is this gun going to sell off quickly? That will be interesting to see. It is clearly one that, from the photos, is properly described as in its original condition. There appears to be honest wear on the wood, handling marks, and the bbls and the finish dulled out a bit. Age and honest use. And that is where the price and originality may tell against it.

It has not been rechambered to the more common 500/465, and it is not 'pristine' (or, as most 'pristine and untouched' guns being sold today, very carefully touched up and refinished.) It is a bit old for the market that will pay $60,000+ for any H&H in an "African" caliber and surrounded by the usual case, bits and pieces, and flash that these normally have to dress them up.

Would I buy this gun and would anyone who can understand and appreciate the fact that it is far more rare and significant than a 'tween wars H&H? You bet. Do I think it is overpriced for the market? Yes, but it is not 'stupidly' priced at all, and Moore, if it does not sell off quickly, may consider taking less.

I will defer to those who are more active in the market on price, but I suspect that if it is sold at the ask, there is no room for much, if any, upside. That would mean a sale as a 'keeper' rather than as an 'investment" and that, to me, is what would be best for this veteran.

Unfortunately, my plate is full just now with a pair of WRs I just acquired (no, not the 32-40.) I hope it goes to someone who appreciates it. If not, and if it sits around a bit, who knows, I may crack open a piggy bank.

Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

Edited by dnovo (22/03/08 11:10 PM)

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Huvius
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Re: H&H 500/450 [Re: dnovo]
      #100003 - 23/03/08 12:50 AM

Very nice rifle. I do believe that originality counts for a lot and we will see original unaltered guns gaining value and overdone restorations slipping in the market. Just like with classic cars, it can only be original once...
Maybe its time to turn my many guns into fewer and better - this Hog&Hog would be a good start.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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bonanza
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Re: H&H 500/450 [Re: Huvius]
      #100009 - 23/03/08 02:30 AM

What worries me with a rifle like this is when you pull the trigger and something goes "pwing". Must be a sickening feeling.

I personally this too much emphasis is put in bore condition, rather than mechanical. The rifles represent some of the highest component stress values of mechanical devices. There is a lot of force crammed into tiny parts. Fatigue is cumulative; breakage is a real prospect.

I think that double rifles will shoot for a very long time "well enough" even with worn rifling.

B.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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500Nitro
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Re: H&H 500/450 [Re: bonanza]
      #100011 - 23/03/08 02:50 AM


bonanza

I think the Holland Sidelock, starting with the AB Action and then this one have been around long enough that it isn't a major problem.

Yes, springs break but they are easily replaced. Other components can be made.


I agree with your comment re bore condition - far too much emphasis is placed on it over other things - and IMHO, people buy a lesser rifle because of bore condition as opposed to a better quality rifle.

In any case, we'll never shoot out a rifle in our lifetime.

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Huvius
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Re: H&H 500/450 [Re: 500Nitro]
      #100013 - 23/03/08 03:15 AM

I wouldn't worry about that on this particular gun. it looks to be little used. The way I figure, a DR is very unlikely to break a spring considering how little use most of them see. Breaking a spring on an best shotgun is rare enough, and some of them have thousands of rounds fired through them. I'm not sure if recoil and overall use has any effect on the integrity of a sidelock's springs, or if the real evil is in the cocking action or leaving the springs under tension in the cocked position. Either way, 500Nitro is right, easy to replace and not very costly to do.
Also, bore condition is a good "guage" on how the rifle has been treated over its life. Good bores in a gun that shows otherwise a great deal of use on the exterior indicates to me that previous owners took the time to clean the bores properly and if they did that, they probably cared for and stored the gun properly as well.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Checkman
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Re: H&H 500/450 [Re: Huvius]
      #100068 - 23/03/08 02:37 PM

Great looking double. Actually to this DR layman it's simply beautiful. It figures. I start a thread about T.R.'s Holland and Holland and now Holland & Holland doubles in .500/.450 will be popping up everywhere. That's ironic.

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bonanza
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Re: H&H 500/450 [Re: Checkman]
      #100134 - 24/03/08 10:39 AM

Welcome Checkman,

A few of us here have a 500/450. It's my favorite stopper cartridge.

B.

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Anonymous
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Re: H&H 500/450 [Re: ]
      #101083 - 01/04/08 01:40 PM

I think its a neat find, I wish it had ejectors though.

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starwars
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Reged: 03/04/08
Posts: 58
Loc: California
Re: H&H 500/450 [Re: ]
      #102190 - 11/04/08 02:02 PM

I too wish it had ejectors, one wonders why such a high grade gun would be ordered with extractors. I'm sure it has a rich history through the magical smoke of Africa given its vintage. Lovely!

--------------------
Richard

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470evans
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Reged: 30/03/05
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Loc: Texas, USA
Re: Holland & Holland 500/450 [Re: ]
      #106204 - 28/05/08 03:48 AM

After a some negotiation and a trip to Enid OK, the Holland will be joining my collection. I'm looking forward to seeing the gun. I found out from H&H it was made for Lord de Clifford in 1904.

I'll post more after I receive it.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Holland & Holland 500/450 [Re: 470evans]
      #106206 - 28/05/08 04:00 AM

Congratulations! Fine rifle indeed.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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JabaliHunter
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Re: H&H 500/450 [Re: starwars]
      #106311 - 29/05/08 11:12 PM

Quote:

one wonders why such a high grade gun would be ordered with extractors. I'm sure it has a rich history through the magical smoke of Africa given its vintage. Lovely!


Some preferred extractors over ejectors because of noise, particularly professional hunters after elephants in herds. It wouldn't bother me if everything else on the rifle matched what I was looking for...

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470evans
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Loc: Texas, USA
Re: H&H 500/450 [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #108525 - 30/06/08 05:05 AM

I took the Holland 500/450 to the range this weekend and I'm very pleased with the way it shoots.

With R-15, it shoots Hornady 300gr hollow points, Hornady 350gr round nose and Woodleigh 480gr softs to the same point of aim at 50yds.

I find it interesting that some think the 500/450s are less desireable than comparable 500/465s. In reality, you have far more bullet options with the 450.
Based on this one selling for $58,000 maybe people are finally seeing the light of day. I'm glad I got this one before anyone else learns it

http://213.219.62.57/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=1019++++1210+&refno=+++17864&saletype=

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