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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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Alberta
.275 member


Reged: 03/12/07
Posts: 66
Loc: Canada
Re: .715 Ball loads [Re: beleg2]
      #98720 - 08/03/08 01:46 PM

Remington Gun Club Hulls ball fits perfectly in the hull. Nice thick plastic case, one piece construction. I am using this case to test out fist, seems like the best cheap hull.


Fired 28.5g of IMR 4756 with a Win AA White and Remington power piston stolen out of factory loads. 1050 fps Had cut the pedals down to cup the ball but found the base of the shot cup caved in and supported the ball on it's own. 25 yards ma bey 6" group with a Mossberg pump smooth bore bead sight.

Fired 31g of IMR 4756 with used Remington Power pistons 1170 FPS 6" group at 25 yards. Shot this load through a frozen 5" poplar tree and stuck into another one 2" deep. Ball looks unfired no deformation. (air cooled WW but the air was -10*c) also pulled a ball out of a frozen dirt bank, little to no penetration ball looked unfired so I shot it again!

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26533
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .715 Ball loads [Re: Alberta]
      #98769 - 09/03/08 02:22 AM

Quote:

Remington Gun Club Hulls ball fits perfectly in the hull. Nice thick plastic case, one piece construction. I am using this case to test out fist, seems like the best cheap hull.


Fired 28.5g of IMR 4756 with a Win AA White and Remington power piston stolen out of factory loads. 1050 fps Had cut the pedals down to cup the ball but found the base of the shot cup caved in and supported the ball on it's own. 25 yards ma bey 6" group with a Mossberg pump smooth bore bead sight.

Fired 31g of IMR 4756 with used Remington Power pistons 1170 FPS 6" group at 25 yards. Shot this load through a frozen 5" poplar tree and stuck into another one 2" deep. Ball looks unfired no deformation. (air cooled WW but the air was -10*c) also pulled a ball out of a frozen dirt bank, little to no penetration ball looked unfired so I shot it again!


;
;
; Good going so far. My double 12, made 4" groups at 50 yards, 10" at 100 yards firing lefts and rights. Please don't misunderstand - I'm not bragging - just showing what can be done with naked round balls. There is a lot of room to experiment, in both powder charges and with the wad column and different wads as well. Does using a .715" ball mean you have improved cylinder or no choke?
; Trap ranges are covered with free gas check wads - just cut everything else off a trap wad and what's left is the gas check. The cupped surface of the bottom holds the ball centred in the bore. Fibre filler and hard card wads are available from ww.trackofthewolf.com and are cheap in 500 piece bags. That's where I get mine from.
; A load that runs in the 1,100fps range, duplicates the original BlackPowder load of about 1780 in the British Brown Bess.
; Using the wad colum you've used, Lyman went somehwat higher in charge. Since you're using about a 530gr. ball, the Lyman 575gr. slug data will be useful. I think they got the big one doing well over 1,400fps. There will be a corresponding increase in penetration as well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Alberta
.275 member


Reged: 03/12/07
Posts: 66
Loc: Canada
Re: .715 Ball loads [Re: DarylS]
      #98787 - 09/03/08 06:41 AM

I have a cylinder bore in the mossberg, the ball casts a bit larger than .715 and fits with room to spare. I have been looking around for a gas check that will hold the ball but cannot find one. All the gas checks I have found laying around have a flat or convex bottom to them. The flat ones may work if they cave in a bit but the convex ones probably won't work. Like you say there is a lot of experimenting that can be done. I have ordered some Winchester AA white and red wads and want to try out a few different things with them. I really should pick up some fiber and card wads to try that too.


I have the newest Lyman manual, it lists 525g slug loads with plastic wads and 35g of 4756 (Remington SPS hull data) for the 1400fps range. My ball is 537g so I use a little caution and have not gone over the 31g 1170fps load. I think I will take it up to 1250- 1300fps as a maximum. Recoil is an issue as the gun has a folding stock and is meant to be carried in the quad box for defensive purposes.

If I can find a load that will hold good accuracy to 50 yards I will shoot a bear with it to test it out.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26533
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .715 Ball loads [Re: Alberta]
      #98860 - 10/03/08 03:42 AM

It is the 'cup' that you want off the wad - nothing else- everything else is garbage - toss it - The cup off the bottom is the gas check. It is put cup-down to seal the powder, and one is put facing cup-up to centre the ball. All trap wads I've seen have a concave gas check seal on the bottom of the wad. I am not sure what you are talking about - flat? flat what?. Put one cup down on the powder, then the right size cushion wad for crimp height overall, then another gas check cup(OFF A WAD) with the concave facing up, to centre the ball in the bore.
; The nominal size for 12 bore is .729". Mnay today are overbored or back-bored to larger sizes, even to .740". One must slug the bore to find out what it is if you want to use the largest ball possible. The weigth goes up quickly.
; Your shotgun doesn't know the difference between a 525gr. slug and a 537gr. ball. Then, there's the weigth of the wads, length of bearing surfaces causing friction, etc. It is best to start low, of course, as you have, but you can probably work up to 1,450fps easily. THAT's a powerful load.
; It may only be 2,508FPE, but on Taylor's KO chart, it's 79.5. A .300 Ultra Mag develops a whole 27.7KO roughly 1/3rd of the real power. 1450fps is 100fps higher than the moderate, more extensively used African load for the 12 bore BP cape guns and rifles produces.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Alberta
.275 member


Reged: 03/12/07
Posts: 66
Loc: Canada
Re: .715 Ball loads [Re: DarylS]
      #98886 - 10/03/08 08:00 AM

Yes the bottom, cup shaped, over powder, gas check portion of the wad, the ones I am finding are not totally dished out, the bottom of the cup has a convex bump or is flat.

Really the biggest problem with them is they are wads for tapered cases such as the Win AA's and Remington's. They have a gas check that is smaller in diameter than the ball so have no chance of riding on the bore and keeping the ball in the middle. They mic out at .685 my bore is .730 and the ball drops out at .718 The one and only Federal wad that I have (stolen from a factory slug load) is .730 wide and when I push it trough my bbl rides on the bore and holds the ball nicely centred in the gas check. That particular was is a specialty one and is not offed as a component.
I will rustle up some regular Federal wads they may be the ticket to hold the ball if AA's don't pan out. I still need the smaller gas checks off the AA's for powder seal in the Remington hulls.
More testing required LOL!!!

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26533
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .715 Ball loads [Re: Alberta]
      #98894 - 10/03/08 11:47 AM

Here's an alternative. Can you check out some steel-shot wads. I found the inner bottom is cupped on the ones I found. It cup is undersize to the size of the ball, but holds the ball perfectly centred. The wad is full size to all the hulls I tested it in. I've posted this picture elsewhere in another ball-load thread on this forum - somewhere. I guess it won't hurt to post it here as well. Too- the bottom of the gas check, although having a square sort of cuttout, perfectly seals on the powder end of things.


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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