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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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hoppdoc
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Lang 450#2 Double!!
      #98705 - 08/03/08 12:38 PM

Interesting Double, looks to be in good shape.

http://www.stevebarnettfineguns.com/frm_inventory1.htm

**Well, crappy do-- Click on Dangerous game rifles and then click on the Lang Double!!

Has anyone seen or handled this Double??

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (08/03/08 12:46 PM)

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500Nitro
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: hoppdoc]
      #98709 - 08/03/08 12:53 PM


Looks nice.

And I think from what I can see a Webley Screw Grip as well.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: 500Nitro]
      #98755 - 08/03/08 11:11 PM

It needs a stock. Looks like about 2" of pad to make out 14 7/16". That's a pity.

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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dnovo
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: CptCurl]
      #98756 - 09/03/08 12:24 AM

Agree with the Cap on that one, someone had this gun either built with a VERY short LOP or it was altered later. That recoil pad is almost grotesque, and ruins the appearance of what would otherwise be a very desirable gun. Dave

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500Nitro
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: dnovo]
      #98788 - 09/03/08 06:46 AM


dnovo

A lot of Engish DG rifles had shorter lengths of pull
than what WE "now" consider normal or like.

Remember, people were smaller, shorter and lighter
in those days than they are now.


I do agree that whoever extended it did not pick the best
way to do it BUT I think the photos extenuate the pad
so the person could have done a better job of photography.

Anyway, the pad will darken up quite quickly.

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9.3x57
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: 500Nitro]
      #98797 - 09/03/08 10:20 AM

Quote:


dnovo

A lot of Engish DG rifles had shorter lengths of pull
than what WE "now" consider normal or like.

Remember, people were smaller, shorter and lighter
in those days than they are now.





500, what is an average or common lop on a double of the 1900-1939 era?

Many Original Mausers and HVA Mausers of the 1900-1939 era had lop's hovering around or slightly longer than 14", actually longer than common factory rifles today.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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JPK
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98813 - 09/03/08 03:05 PM

14 7/16 - ~2" = not too far from typical. And I think its a 1.5" pad and not a 2" pad. Either way, a well done wood extension and a shorter pad will be a propper solution. No big deal if you use your rifle.

JPK

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9.3x57
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: JPK]
      #98816 - 09/03/08 05:29 PM

How is 14 + inches shorter than today's rifles?

I must be confused here.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98822 - 09/03/08 11:06 PM

To facilitate discussion, I'm posting the photos and description to this thread.

Quote:

JOSEPH LANG .450 #2

Description:
28" BARREL WITH 1 STANDING AND 2 FOLDING SIGHTS AND PERFECT BORES DOUBLE TRIGGER EJECTOR SPLINTER FOREARM PISTOL GRIP EXCELLENT NEAR NEW ORIGINAL CONDITION 11LB 4 OZ X 14 7/16

Price: $25,000


















JPK is right. The rifle certainly can give excellent service. But is $25,000 the right price for a "user", or is that a "collector" price?

Also, I believe the butt stock may well be a replacement. I've not seen a Webley A&WC without drop points. The panels behind the action are a little long and are checkered, again not seen on a Webley.

For comparison, here's a photo showing the side panels and drop points of my Gibbs .450 3 1/4" NE, also a Webley A&WC:



These are just my observations of the photos of Barnett's gun. I have no personal knowledge of this rifle and may well be wrong. It is not my intention to take anything away from that rifle.

Opinions?

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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hoppdoc
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98823 - 09/03/08 11:06 PM

Obviously one of the prior owners was a small fella and had the gun stock cut down. A later owner was a larger individual and added the 1.5-2.0 recoil pad.

I wonder,what is the average LOP of the English Double??
Were most of the LOP on English Double guns 13.5-14.0 because of Englishmen's smaller stature???Someone must know--

I am a big fella and need a 15 inch LOP on my Double--just seems to handle and shoot better!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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470evans
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: hoppdoc]
      #98824 - 09/03/08 11:23 PM

I'm with Curl on this one. Looks like a restock to me, which if done correctly is fine. This one was done incorrectly with flutes at the front of the comb, checkered side panels and no drop points if it is an A&W.C.

As a shooter it could be a decent gun, or if the bores are nice and you can get him down a bit on price a restock could be in order.

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hoppdoc
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: 470evans]
      #98825 - 09/03/08 11:39 PM

Any guess how much a restock to original contour/appearance would cost??

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: hoppdoc]
      #98826 - 09/03/08 11:45 PM

Prices start about $6,000 from what I've heard.

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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470evans
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: CptCurl]
      #98828 - 10/03/08 12:24 AM

Paul Hodgins will be in the 6k+ range. He just finished stocking a Manton 400 for me that looks wonderful and is currently restocking my H&H 465. He's not cheap nor fast but the work is done correctly. His lead time now is out over a year and so is JJ.

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hoppdoc
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: 470evans]
      #98830 - 10/03/08 01:32 AM

A professional friend who hunts Africa says he is interested in a classic Double.

Would a restocking job raise the selling price and if so to what approximate level?? Even with that change would it always be less than a 100% original gun?

Since the stock on the gun is a non original repro would 18K-19K be about right for the gun as is or is that too low??

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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9.3x57
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: hoppdoc]
      #98831 - 10/03/08 01:33 AM

Quote:

Obviously one of the prior owners was a small fella and had the gun stock cut down. A later owner was a larger individual and added the 1.5-2.0 recoil pad.

I wonder,what is the average LOP of the English Double??
Were most of the LOP on English Double guns 13.5-14.0 because of Englishmen's smaller stature???Someone must know--

I am a big fella and need a 15 inch LOP on my Double--just seems to handle and shoot better!!



Can somebody answer the "lop of average English double" question?

Thanks.

Hoppdoc, as a medico you are aware of the general increase of stature/weight that occured in the 20th Century in Western Europe and the USA. Interesting that average height of males in several Euro countries now exceeds the average height of American males. Netherlands is now over 6 feet.

Various factors seem to converge, not the least of which is the vast immigration in the last 30 years the USA has experienced from countries where average heights are very short {Latin American, etc}.

As for lops and height, Euro males were substantially shorter than they are now in the 1900-1939 era, and yet lops on commercial Mausers are long by the modern standards of most production guns, certainly American production guns}. And that despite the use in cold climes where added clothing seems to beg for shorter stocks yet. I think convention rather than physiology must be at least as important. Personally, I am 5' 10" and yet I like a 14" or 14 1/4" lop on a rifle.

This Lang stock borders on the bizarre.

This thing must have had a number of owners along the way and at least one after the owner that restocked it. Otherwise why would a fellow restock his own gun with a stock that is too short and then add a really ugly plus-length kick pad? With those gaping big screw holes in the pad, I wonder what the screw heads are, if they are Allen or some that allows that nasty pad to be removed and the stock thus shortened to take a thinner pad, i.e. to allow the gun to be shot by both a troglodyte and a professional tree trimmer...

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98832 - 10/03/08 01:54 AM

Quote:

Interesting that average height of males in several Euro countries now exceeds the average height of American males. Netherlands is now over 6 feet.


Its evolution kicking in to avoid climate change - helping keep their heads above water!

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dnovo
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #98836 - 10/03/08 02:24 AM

Spending a fair amount of time looking at that rifle, I think that it is fair to say it IS at least a partial restock and NOT that well done. Given the price, I'd pass. But here is the caveat: I have been able to negotiate prices with them in the past. This one has been there for a bit and they may be willing to drop the price to the point where a good stockmaker could take care of the issue and let you end up with a nice gun for a nice price.

None of the prices posted at most places on the Net are written in stone. Even the 'bigger' sellers such as Cabelas will deal, especially if they are priced high to begin with and the 'produce is past its sell date.' My philosophy is, 'if ya don't ask, ya don't find out.' Sometimes they laugh out loud, other times, after a bit of haggling, you'd be surprised. Dave

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Time Wounds All Heels

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dnovo
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: dnovo]
      #98837 - 10/03/08 02:26 AM

BTW, has anyone looked at the marks in the photo showing the right side of the barrels? Looks like a fairly good wack in the finish. Can't tell if its in the photo or in the rifle, but it is hardly insignificant. If it is a ding, a simple 'reblack' ain't gonna take care of that, so perhaps the stock on this one may be the most minor of issues? Dave

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Time Wounds All Heels

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: dnovo]
      #98838 - 10/03/08 02:32 AM

Yeah I noticed the side of the barrels.

Also, these appear to be shoe lump barrels, not chopper lump.

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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dnovo
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: CptCurl]
      #98843 - 10/03/08 02:37 AM

Yes, this is beginning to look more and more like something that has had far more than a few 'tweaks' since it was built, and something I'd be really hard pressed to purchase unless it was really cheap -- which it is not. Dave

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hoppdoc
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: dnovo]
      #98857 - 10/03/08 03:17 AM

Wow, I'm impressed what you fellas can deduce from the limited pictures present!!

This one doesn't make the cut for classic anything-

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bonanza
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: hoppdoc]
      #98863 - 10/03/08 05:07 AM

Ok, $25k might me a tad bit high, but someone show me a stopper class hammerless ejector pre-war British double for -Less- than $20k. Bet you can't.

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"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

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dnovo
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: bonanza]
      #98875 - 10/03/08 06:11 AM

Want to bet? Here's a REAL bargin and a stopper, albeit in a odd caliber but is will do the job, and less than HALF the price of the one we have been talking about:

http://www.westleyrichards.com/gun/used_guns_2_product.php?id=24888

There are several Army and Navy boxlocks floating around under 20K as well. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

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Anonymous
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Re: Lang 450#2 Double!! [Re: hoppdoc]
      #98876 - 10/03/08 06:28 AM

I guess I'll chime in here..

This is built on the great Webley A&WC long bar screw grip ejector action with intercepting sears. That said, as well its a top class British "best" engraved gun. Proper weight, perfect bores, stock has issues but not a death sentence, all in all given todays prices. $18,000.00 - $22,000.00 is low to high "cash money" market for this calibre gun, so its not far off guys.

The only issue with this particular cartridge chambering, is the case is much to long for modern powders. One must use a fair amount of filler when reloading this round. However, this is a very low pressure cartridge and will last millennium's as a great shooter.

I may buy this one if it sits around much longer.

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