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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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hoppdoc
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50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND??
      #98317 - 04/03/08 08:30 PM

I have seen pictures from Alaska of folks shooting Bear with 50 BMG's.

http://www.barrettrifles.com/pdf/Manual-95.pdf

Rumor has it this cartridge is illegal in Africa because of its military roots--- I dunno, but am sure someone will!

Is the big 50 a legit hunting rifle?
Analyze your feelings--
Is it precise enough? Yes
Is it portable? Yes
Can it be had in a bolt magazine gun? Yes
Can it be loaded with "hunting bullets? Yes

Or does it foul out for other reasons?
Is it too heavy for one man to carry long distances(like a 600 Nitro,700 nitro, or 4 or 8 bore would be)?
The cartridge is not "sporting"?
It can't be used to hunt, only shoot!!

All this said, a friend has a 50 and I really like shooting it out to 500 yds, I think 50's are a blast!!

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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9.3x57
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #98341 - 05/03/08 12:44 AM

Most of the rifles come in at weights that exceed the legal maximum for hunting rifles here in Idaho {16 pounds}.

Bullet selection is critical due to the terrific trauma that can be produced. In fact, I have always wondered if a conviction of game meat wastage could be obtained if the game department wanted to put the kibosh on certain calibers, this or one of the slightly shorter wildcats being the target of such a charge. Here in Idaho, it is illegal to waste meat from big game animals taken.

As far as the cartridge and rifle is concerned, not hamstrung by any legal issues, Who cares? If it works and a fellow doesn't mind packing the thing around, go for it.

I have mulled over getting one from time to time to be set up on a platform above my corals. Shots on the treeline vary from 1,000 yards to something like 1,800. a curiousity, but really, this one goes beyond my area of interest. They are neat to shoot but the weight and blast make for an experience that is interesting but does not fall within my own level of enjoyment regards hunting.

I can see a few, although admittedly very few, applications where such a gun would come in very handy indeed though, and ammo is cheap, too.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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xausa
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98344 - 05/03/08 01:17 AM

9ThreeXFifty7

Years ago in the American Rifleman there was printed a sequence of photographs showing your fellow Idahoan, Elmer Keith, shooting a Mauser single shot anti-tank rifle which had been rebarrelled to .50 BMG. Elmer was shooting off sandbags placed on the roof of a car, I believe, and the second photograph showed the rifle in full recoil and Elmer's signature ten gallon hat flying through the air. The next month someone wrote in and remarked that he was glad that Elmer had finally found a cartridge powerful enough to dispatch a sick jack rabbit.

I once toyed with the idea of building a rifle using the .50 caliber cartridge developed as a spotting round in conjunction with the 106mm recoilless rifle. This was a normal .50 caliber BMG case reduced in length and capacity to produce a muzzle velocity and trajectory identical with that of the 106mm projectile. The idea was to fire tracers at the target using the .50 caliber spotting rifle, which was parallel mounted on the side of the 106mm tube, and as soon as the tracer hit the target, to fire the 106mm round, which would strike at the same spot. The same knob traversed the weapon and fired both the spotting round and the main tube.

I decided, however, that if I was going to shoot a 750 grain bullet, I would prefer it to be a larger diameter than .50 caliber, and that was the genesis of my rimless .577 round.

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szihn
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: xausa]
      #98347 - 05/03/08 01:36 AM

Well, there are mixed feeling about this with many hunters. Some feel it's unfair for those to shoot game at 1 mile, and screw up the hunt/stalk for those that want to get closer.

Others feel that it's no more unfair then allowing horses to go into wilderness areas but no allow motorized vehicles.

Keeping horses is expensive.
Shooting 50 BMGs are too.

Both are "rich man's games" to some people's thinking. I don't see it that way, but that what we hear thrown about.


I am glad I don't have to make that call.

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Tatume
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: szihn]
      #98350 - 05/03/08 01:56 AM

My concern would be for my own safety. If I were stalking an animal and someone took a shot at the same animal from over a mile away, would I be at risk? If we were a couple of hundred yards from each other, I would expect to see him (probably), but I don't usually watch for other hunters who are miles distant.

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9.3x57
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: szihn]
      #98351 - 05/03/08 01:56 AM

Xausa: I remember that very photo! It should be noted that the old German 13mm anti-tank round as fired from the Mauser single shot was said to be a grim experience indeed and the .50 BMG is quite similar in performance.

Shooting one with one of the current crops of brakes is no problem. Recoil is not that great, though muzzle blast is almost atomic.

Yes, the spotter round is one and other totally wildcat rounds exist, too, but require such a massive action that if the case is shortened too much it makes more sense to go with a smaller case that allows for a much less obese action.

Szihn, the guns are expensive, but shooting them is surprisingly cheap. Various milsurp components can be had for less than those of many other big bores.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Shackleton
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98355 - 05/03/08 02:15 AM

Done right, a long shot can be almost as sporting as a "true" hunt-knowing how to adjust your windage, etc. I read an article about elk hunting with the .50, and the people the article was about hunted in a 3 person team-one to use the rangefinder, one to watch the shot path for any sign of another person in the way or trying to stalk, and one to shoot. Wouldn't hunt that way myself, as I'll always see the .50 as a target rifle or machine gun, but who am I to say someone else shouldn't do it?(especially if done right). We can't use rifles for hunting anything but furbearers in IA anyway-other than the extreme southern part of the state. The funny thing is, that we can use that same .30-06 on a coyote but not on a deer. It would be an expensive trip for me to use a .50 for a hunt. Looks like I'll be sticking to handgun range.

--------------------
"I do not kill with my gun, he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart."--Stephen King

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xausa
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: Shackleton]
      #98366 - 05/03/08 04:37 AM

Did the article about 1000 yard hunting happen to mention how you follow up wounded game shot from that distance? Even a .50 BMG takes appreciable time to arrive at the target, and unless the target is entirely immobile, it can easily move enough to cause a miss, or much worse, a potentially, but not immediately, fatal wound.

Add to that the factor that many of these 1000 shots I have read about are across canyons, which would add even more to the time a shooter would need to arrive at the scene of his hit.

One more attempt to replace skill with technology.

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gryphon
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: xausa]
      #98367 - 05/03/08 04:58 AM

Just more rubbish (1000 yard animal shots)

Show me the kid that comes home with a pair of rabbits taken honestly with his .22 rifle rather than some wealthy (usually fat) .50 cal owner with his latest 1000 yard deer kill!

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9.3x57
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: gryphon]
      #98369 - 05/03/08 05:20 AM

I do not want to be linked with supporting the notion of 1,000 yard deer shooting. As I mentioned, when you have a place like mine where you have a couple miles of fringe and critter activity all along it, the notion of "what if" has to cross your mind at some point.

As I have stated before, I shoot enough at 200 yards to keep my deer shooting as close to 100 as I can!

There are so many "little details" that go along with 1,000 yard big game shooting as others here are mentioning and alluding to;

Time-to-impact, wind, followup, range estimation, etc. Truth is, even if a fellow could eliminate every element but the distance to the target around here, FOR THE MOST PART, it would very frequently be difficult just to find THE SPOT where the critter was standing at the shot. It is not as easy as it sounds, sometimes even with a 200 yard shot. There can be a lot of terrain between the shooter and 1,000 yards out.

But, yes, there are places where it is done, and I guess in reality, if we can categorically state that the shooting of big game at 1,000 yards or something like it is unethical, so, in my opinion, is shooting only a box or two of bullets before hunting season commences. In reality, i have more a problem with the latter because that practice, in fact, loses more game every year than the thousand yarders if only because of frequency.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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hoppdoc
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: gryphon]
      #98370 - 05/03/08 05:24 AM

Shooting 50's and hitting with them are great fun but hunting with a 25-30+ pound weapon is a bit much and not feasible or practical.

Said again, I feel there is a distinct difference between shooting and hunting!! Rich mans game? Maybe, but then Double rifles are too. Accurate shooting at a distance with a 50 isn't hunting but can be a very satisfying experience!!

Yes, almost as much fun as a Double!
Contrast that to hunting with a Double where you have the hunt close and personal AND the expensive firearm!!

--------------------
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mickey
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #98413 - 05/03/08 03:37 PM

A few years ago I was hunting on the Noatak river in Alaska. A group of guys from Grizzly Arms in AZ were at the main camp and the owner brought along one of his .50 rifles. These are the ones where the recoil pad is on the back of the bolt and the rifle is a bull pup design.

With tripod the rifle weighed around 25-27 pounds if I remember.

They set it up on top of the cook shack and waited for a Caribou to cross the river. Finally, after about 3 hours, a small herd passed. The shooter shot a decent but not great bull at a lasered 1285 yards. He hit just after it emerged from the river and the shock knocked the water off the bull and it disappeared in a mist of wet.

I don't think it even twitched but at almost a mile who could tell.

Pretty impressive shooting as the .50 doesn't have a whole lot better trajectory than a 30-06. It just carries energy a bit better.

The funny thing was there were about 10 guys in camp and no one wanted to go hunting, everyone wanted to stay and watch.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Kalunga
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: mickey]
      #98415 - 05/03/08 03:55 PM

How about a double in .50 BMG ? One would be the star at any shooting range with such a big bore !!!

Kalunga

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DoubleD
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: mickey]
      #98416 - 05/03/08 04:11 PM

I have posted this picture here before.



This is a Montana rock chuck hit at about 250 yards with a 50 BMG. Look closely and you can see the bullet hit on the neck.

I was spotting the shot. I saw the hit. The shooter thought he missed and hit high. The chuck never moved.

The rifle weighs just under 16 pounds. It is a scratch built rifle. It has a muzzle brake made by upscalling a KDF brake--doubled if memory serves me right.

This rifle also killed a Mule Deer. Ho hum.

There are better game killing calibers for North America, including those for 1000 yard shots.

Available bullet construction limits the 50 BMG to military and target use.

When back in Montana, I frequently take shots at 200, 300, 400, 500 yards or more at rock chucks and gophers. I have only taken one shot in the recent past at just under 350 yards at a Mule Deer. I wish I hadn't. It took almost three hours to catch up with that animal after I broke his hind leg and finish him. If you miss by a MOA on a gopher or rock chuck at 350 yards it is a clean miss. On large game it is a cripple...

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DD, Ret.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: xausa]
      #98418 - 05/03/08 04:52 PM

Quote:

Did the article about 1000 yard hunting happen to mention how you follow up wounded game shot from that distance? Even a .50 BMG takes appreciable time to arrive at the target, and unless the target is entirely immobile, it can easily move enough to cause a miss, or much worse, a potentially, but not immediately, fatal wound.

Add to that the factor that many of these 1000 shots I have read about are across canyons, which would add even more to the time a shooter would need to arrive at the scene of his hit.

One more attempt to replace skill with technology.





--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: gryphon]
      #98419 - 05/03/08 04:53 PM

Quote:

Just more rubbish (1000 yard animal shots)

Show me the kid that comes home with a pair of rabbits taken honestly with his .22 rifle rather than some wealthy (usually fat) .50 cal owner with his latest 1000 yard deer kill!





--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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9.3x57
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: NitroX]
      #98423 - 05/03/08 06:34 PM

Interesting how "1,000 yard shooting" always seems to go hand-in-hand with the .50 BMG.

I suppose a fellow could use Mr Browning's .50 for shooting deer at 100 yards or less from his favorite ground blind...

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Shackleton
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98502 - 06/03/08 12:59 PM

Good points, especially on the issue of following wounded game. I never looked at that way, just looked at the skill involved with hitting at 1000 plus. You turned me around, and for the same reason I don't bowhunt-I know I can hit a deer-size target but am not confident I can consistently hit the kill zone with a bow. Doesn't change that I'd like to see what I can hit on a target range with a .50 though(never tried anything beyond 300, would make for a fun day). As far as hunting, I'll stick to the "conventional" stuff too.

--------------------
"I do not kill with my gun, he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart."--Stephen King

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hoppdoc
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: Shackleton]
      #98521 - 06/03/08 05:49 PM

Got no dogs in the fight, 50 cal or otherwise but if you just do the math---

If you have a one MOA rifle(very accurate indeed) you could expect a 5 inch group at 500 yds with PERFECT conditions and great shooting.Add it human frailty and weather conditions and you can balloon that 40% to 7 inches in diameter easy.

Past 500 yards the math goes against you-- AT 1000 yds you have only a 10 inch circle of accuracy with maybe a 30-40% balloon due to other variables.Thats a "vital zone" of 13-14 inches which is ridiculous for a deer or an antelope.An elk with a 24" chest would have a vital zone of 1/3 of that depth or 8 inches. And your gonna shoot at that animal from 700-800 yd?? Crappy choice by my estimation and very possibly injuring the animal irresponsibly.The animal deserves better than that.

Warfare is different with different objectives. Wounding one individual can require 2 other to deal with him and decrease the force of your opposition(or so the song goes)
The human toso is upright and this gives a larger surface to strike vertically.Yada, Yada, Yada--

50's are great fun but not for hunting long range game in my book--just my personal opinion--

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Dphariss
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: mickey]
      #98896 - 10/03/08 12:35 PM

Quote:


<snip>

Pretty impressive shooting as the .50 doesn't have a whole lot better trajectory than a 30-06. It just carries energy a bit better.
<snip>



I think in practical use you will find the big slug does shoot significantly flatter. Especially at extended ranges.

Dan

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DarylS
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98898 - 10/03/08 12:48 PM

Quote:

Interesting how "1,000 yard shooting" always seems to go hand-in-hand with the .50 BMG.

I suppose a fellow could use Mr Browning's .50 for shooting deer at 100 yards or less from his favorite ground blind...


;
; Shooting at long range is a specialty of the .5 clubs around the States for sure. However - the current and past record bench rest records are very much small than the smallest group ever shot by a .5. The current 1st and 2nd place winners are .30 cal.. with 5 shot groups of under and just over 1 1/2". I think the current .5 bench rest rifles are still struggling between 3 and 5 inches. It was only a couple years ago, that the smallest .5 group was around 5 1/2" for 5 shots.
; The record 1 shot, 1 kill Taliban still sits with a Canadian snipe with a .5 - somewhere between 2,400 and 2,500 yards. This is a game that nothing smaller cannot compete in - at least .5 is where the match bullets capable of maintaining 1/3MOA at long ranges have some emphasis.
; I suspect a .416 to .458 calibre wildcat could be made to work, but as yet, there is no work being done with BR quality bullets in those calibres as far as I know. - Could be, though.
; I should add to this, sniper work for freedom is where the .5 belongs and due to the private use of the round in clubs for long range TARGET shooting, the true accuracy potential of the round has been brought out.
; If someone wants to use one for shooting big game out to 300 yards, I'm all for it along with about any other round suitable - to 300 yards. I do not condone shooting anything but Taliban and El K's any further out.
: Too much happens between the trigger pull and the bullet hit. Even at 300, the animal can move and make a gut shot.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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hoppdoc
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: DarylS]
      #98901 - 10/03/08 02:02 PM

50's for hunting game??
Inside a quarter mile at nondangerous game--ok

For DG such a bolt could be a liability with the time to set it up to provide b/u 100 yds and in.Rather have the PH hsve a non 50 big bolt or a stopping Double--

Supposedly some guides have used them for b/u on big bears in Alaska--I DON'T think they should make them illegal!!

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Ripp
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: DarylS]
      #98903 - 10/03/08 02:19 PM

Read an article in the past few weeks where a Taliban was smacked at a bit over 1300 meters with a .50 --top half of torso dropped over railing ...

Also read that Barrett is/has worked up a necked down version in .416--suppose to be the "real deal"...

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DoubleD
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: Ripp]
      #98904 - 10/03/08 02:50 PM

Quote:

Read an article in the past few weeks where a Taliban was smacked at a bit over 1300 meters with a .50 --top half of torso dropped over railing ...

Ripp



Ripp I would take that article with a grain salt...the half inch hole is very effective...just not that effective.

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DD, Ret.

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hoppdoc
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Re: 50 BMG, A HUNTING ROUND?? [Re: DoubleD]
      #98913 - 10/03/08 11:06 PM

You need to review the rounds the 50 sniper gun shoots--it shoots military rounds with exploding bullets.

To be convinced go to--( be prepared, real gory stuff)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZIJH4wvVng

Look closely, cause those are body parts you are seeing!!
I apologize if the video offends anyone--

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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