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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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Luckydog
.275 member

Reged: 27/02/08
Posts: 56
Loc: Huntin' In Colorado

Muzzle Brake Or Porting?
#98141 - 03/03/08 12:30 AM

I'm going out today to shoot my CZ 375 H&H for the first time. I'm really hoping I can handle the recoil the way it is without modifing the gun in anyway. If I feel the need to tame down the recoil, what would you recomend? Muzzle brake, mercury recoil reducer, or magna porting. The GS told me if I go with the brake, they have to remove or relocate the banded front sight, and re-blue the barrel.

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Make Sure You Vote, And Make Sure Your Friends Vote!!

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DoubleD
.400 member

Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: Luckydog]
#98143 - 03/03/08 12:54 AM

Make sure the stock fits you properly and you have a good recoil pad fitted, like the Pachmyer Decelarator. Then shoot the gun before you decide you need a brake.

If you are concerned about the need for a brake before even shooting the gun then it sounds like you are afraid of the gun to start with.

The front bbl band sight does not always need removed -moved to install a brake. I have machined several rifles with bbl band front sights without removing them. No reblhing at all. The Rugers come to mind. I will confess that I haven't done a CZ, they weren't around when I was installing muzzle brakes.

If you really realy had to have some sort of recoil reducing system for a .375 H&H then I would opt for Magna-Port.

But don't do anything until you get the stock fit to you first.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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dnovo
.333 member

Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: DoubleD]
#98147 - 03/03/08 01:20 AM

I have one of the Safari Classics in 505 Gibbs. It came with the brake mounted and the banded sight, and looks rather nice. I have no issues with recoil, but having tried the same gun without one, I'd vote for a muzzle brake in the larger calibers. At the same time, I have several other rifles in 375 H&H and I manage them just fine without a brake. Dave

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Time Wounds All Heels

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mikeh416Rigby
.450 member

Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: Luckydog]
#98150 - 03/03/08 02:24 AM

IMHO, shooting big bores from .375 on up is a matter of conditioning, ie., getting used to the recoil over time. What has helped me is starting with a lighter load, and lighter bullet. I would suggest starting with a bullet weight of around 250 grains or lighter, and over several months work your way up to reduced loads with the 300 grain bullets. Then as you find you can handle the 300 grain bullets, increase the powder charge up, until you reach your physical recoil limit, while still maintaining a safe load level.

Honestly, though, most shooters handle, and tolerate the .375s recoil very well, but as others have mentioned. make sure the stock fits you well, install a good, recoil absorbing pad, and make sure your scope provides enough eye relief.

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zimhunter
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Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
#98162 - 03/03/08 07:10 AM

Have not owned or shot a bigbore with muzzle break but did have and shoot quite a bit a 416Rigby Ruger RSM that was MagnaPorted. I really liked the way it shot. More pleasant than my CZ550 416Rigby. I don't see a downside to MagnaPorting.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: Luckydog]
#98163 - 03/03/08 07:13 AM

My opinion is that if you want the recoil reduction provided by brake or porting, go with the brake. For one thing, opinions vary as to the effectiveness of porting, but a good brake WILL reduce recoil very significantly on a .375.

Then there is resale.

A brake can be removed and the threads covered with a cap which can be made to blend quite nicely with the barrel for those who might not want the brake. A ported barrel can't be hidden and in my experience alot of people found a ported barrel undesireable on a used gun.

Maybe things have changed and maybe the ported barrels are just fine for resale now. I'm not trying to be dogmatic about this, but rather just giving you another thing to mull over.

Zimhunter, you must have posted right before me. Interesting you had a good experience with the porting. When I was selling guns in Michigan, lots of fellows had Larry Kelly port their guns and we got a lot of varied responses about the success of the job. I personally have never shot a ported gun that I can remember.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9ThreeXFifty7 (03/03/08 07:33 AM)

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Luckydog
.275 member

Reged: 27/02/08
Posts: 56
Loc: Huntin' In Colorado

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: 9.3x57]
#98165 - 03/03/08 07:32 AM

Snowing enough here today that all the ranges are closed. I'm probably not going to get to shoot it until sometime this week. I appreciate all the experienced input from you guys. I'll let you know how it shoots, and how I handled the recoil.

Thanks Bryan

--------------------
Make Sure You Vote, And Make Sure Your Friends Vote!!

When they outlaw guns...I'll be an outlaw! Reese

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: Luckydog]
#98171 - 03/03/08 08:16 AM

If you have shot a 338 you can shoot a 375, no problem.
The 375 gives more of a push than the 338 to me.

Focus on the target, not the recoil smack!!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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Bramble
.375 member

Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: hoppdoc]
#98177 - 03/03/08 09:59 AM

A 375 doesnt need a muzzle break or porting.

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: Luckydog]
#98189 - 03/03/08 10:54 AM

Agreed, don't waste yer money. Shoot a .458 a few times and then shoot yer .375.

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: bonanza]
#98203 - 03/03/08 12:58 PM

Let him shoot it first.

If he needs one he'll decide. As he said "If I feel the need..."

Then let him keep posting his results and activities here.

Making the "You don't need it" statements runs off those who do.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: Luckydog]
#98228 - 03/03/08 05:13 PM

Quote:

I'm going out today to shoot my CZ 375 H&H for the first time. I'm really hoping I can handle the recoil the way it is without modifing the gun in anyway. If I feel the need to tame down the recoil, what would you recomend? Muzzle brake, mercury recoil reducer, or magna porting. The GS told me if I go with the brake, they have to remove or relocate the banded front sight, and re-blue the barrel.

Another option is to load say 300 gr bullets down to about 2300 fps. It will still kill well at that lower velocity and recoil will be less.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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JabaliHunter
.400 member

Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: NitroX]
#98234 - 03/03/08 08:03 PM

You'll do yourself no favours with your guide/PH or trackers by turning up with a muzzle break. For that reason alone I would favour porting over a break....

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jro45
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Reged: 25/12/03
Posts: 192
Loc: DE, USA

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: Luckydog]
#98324 - 04/03/08 10:56 PM

On a 375 H&H I have a brake that I can screw off and put a thread protecter on. Same on my 338 RUM

Be cause when sighting in on the bench That recoil is some else but when standing shooting it's not

to bad.

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JabaliHunter
.400 member

Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: jro45]
#98325 - 04/03/08 11:01 PM

Except that you still have to check the zero from a bench without the break, if you plan to take it off to hunt with... No?

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jro45
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Reged: 25/12/03
Posts: 192
Loc: DE, USA

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: JabaliHunter]
#98330 - 04/03/08 11:37 PM

Jabalihunter,

On my brake system my brake do not screw into the barrel They screw on the outside of the barrel There for They don't interfear with shooting the rifle.

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
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Loc: England

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: jro45]
#98332 - 04/03/08 11:43 PM

Hi JRO45 - does that mean that the bullet's point of impact is the same both with and without the break attached?

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: JabaliHunter]
#98337 - 05/03/08 12:21 AM

Quote:

Except that you still have to check the zero from a bench without the break, if you plan to take it off to hunt with... No?

Correct, at least for a .375 I own. Zero change is quite significant with the brake installed. Not sure why this should be so, but it is.

Accuracy is not effected. The rifle is very accurate regardless of whether it has the brake on or off and loads that shoot well without the brake shoot just as well with it.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Bramble
.375 member

Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: Luckydog]
#98386 - 05/03/08 09:27 AM

9.3x57
I appologise if I appeared to be running the poster down, that was not my intention. He had as you see below expressed his desire not to use a break or porting. I was expressing the opinion that he would not need to. I was suggesting that the recoil of a .375 would not require such drastic measures. No offence intended by me.

Quote:

I'm going out today to shoot my CZ 375 H&H for the first time. I'm really hoping I can handle the recoil the way it is without modifing the gun in anyway.

Regards

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: Bramble]
#98392 - 05/03/08 10:29 AM

No problem, Bramble.You are right. He's avoiding it, and for reason.

I now have one on my own .375. I didn't need it for 20 years but after a nerve disease and later an injury had no alternative. Frankly, I hate the thing as the increase in muzzle blast is really disturbing, but like an enema or a prostate exam, sometimes there's no other way...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Mike_McGuire
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Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: Luckydog]
#98398 - 05/03/08 11:20 AM

I have owned magna porting and also the Pendleton Dekicker that was on earlier 460 Wbys. I would never again have a rifle with any type of integral brake.

If you want serious recoil reduction then magna porting is not the answer. For that you want a brake and of the KDF type.....they are the ones fitted to factory Wbys in the 378 based calibres. The Vais brake is a good compromise between blast and recoil reduction. On a calibre like 375 H&H I would use the Vais but would use the KDF style for bigger than 375. A mate of mine has a 338 RUM with the Vais and the recoil is similar to the 338/378 with the Wby KDF style brake.

Magna porting tends to disguise recoil for a couple of shots and as such can be good for field shooting. It also makes the rifle much more controllable. A 375 with magna porting will just sort of "sit there" like a 270 or 30/06, in other words you can shoot just as you would shoot a 30/06 from different improvised rests in the field.

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jro45
.300 member

Reged: 25/12/03
Posts: 192
Loc: DE, USA

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: JabaliHunter]
#98430 - 05/03/08 10:15 PM

Yes Thats what it means. BUllet goes the same with or without the brake when they are screwed on the outside. Thats how mine are and when hunting I don't use a brake I had these thread protecters made for my rifles with a brake.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: jro45]
#98435 - 06/03/08 01:07 AM

Quote:

Yes Thats what it means. BUllet goes the same with or without the brake when they are screwed on the outside. Thats how mine are and when hunting I don't use a brake I had these thread protecters made for my rifles with a brake.

Interesting.

I am not familiar with any add-on brake system that screws INTO the barrel, that is, where the barrel has the female threads {like a threaded choke-tube barrel}. I have only seen those like mine where the barrel is threaded, carries the male threads, and has a female-threaded brake screwed on top of it.

That is the way mine is and with the brake installed, the POI is very different than with the brake removed. Not sure why.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: 9.3x57]
#98449 - 06/03/08 03:23 AM

Question Will the point of impact change if the rifle is sighted in with a muzzle brake on and then the brake is removed?

The answer from firing a couple hundred muzzle brake equipped rifles: Yes it will sometimes, no it won't sometimes. Some rifles will and some won't. You just gotta check your rifle and see if it will. There are some variables.

I only own one brake equipped rifle-a .308 Norma Mag. It was given to me as a sales incentive. It will shoot to the same point using Factory Ammo with or without the brake. The point of impact changes, high if I remember right with my 180 gr. hand loads. It's probably been 10 years since I did that test and I am now over 60 so am allowed to disremember such details.

Also factory groups were tighter without the brake. But with the brake the rifle still met the required accuracy standard for that particular make rifle...3 rounds under 1/2 inch, 5 rounds under 1 inch.

My handloads all group around 3/4 inch with or with out the brake. Taking the brake off has no affect on accuracy with that rifle and my handloads.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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jro45
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Reged: 25/12/03
Posts: 192
Loc: DE, USA

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: DoubleD]
#98480 - 06/03/08 09:24 AM

I find it very interesting!!! I've Been shooting for 47 years. I'm 59 now Never had any problems

With any brake On the two that I own. Always a first time with someone.

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