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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: DoubleD]
#98488 - 06/03/08 10:46 AM

Double D:

Any theories as to why the POI?

I am guessing something to do with barrel harmonics.

IIRC, when add-on brakes were advertized years ago, one of the features was supposed to be no POI change. Not so for mine. The change is to elevation and it is substantial.

Seems a bit odd as the bullet should in theory be gone before the gas pressure hits the brake, unless harmonics are involved due to the extra weight on the muzzle.

Does that seem to make sense?

Of the piles of rifles you have tested, do you remember if those with freefloated barrels are effected more or less than bedded barrels?

Anybody have a picture of the Vais brake??? I checked the website and couldn't find any pix.

On mine, the front sight base did need to be milled back a smidgen, but it all worked out fine. The gun was silver worn when I brought it to the g-smith and he blued it along with the brake mounting so all blends in.

The front sight base is a barrel band affair put on by Paul Jaeger shop in 1987 or so. Sight hood is off a Husqvarna. Front sight can't be seen but is a 20d nail filed to fit. It works and after the reblue doesn't look to bad either, honest...

Here's mine:

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Luckydog
.275 member

Reged: 27/02/08
Posts: 56
Loc: Huntin' In Colorado

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: 9.3x57]
#98498 - 06/03/08 12:06 PM

I'm going to shoot it in the morning, snow or no snow. I've been shooting a lot of years and have never had any problems. A few years ago I had lower back surgery, and now they tell me I have 3 bad disk in my upper back. They want to do another surgery and I told them to pound sand. It's just got me a little freaked out. I shoot a 300RUM, with no problem, but it has a brake. I guess I should have started with the big bores before I got old!!! I'll let you guys know how it goes tomorrow. Thanks for all the input!

--------------------
Make Sure You Vote, And Make Sure Your Friends Vote!!

When they outlaw guns...I'll be an outlaw! Reese

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DoubleD
.400 member

Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2404
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: jro45]
#98501 - 06/03/08 12:47 PM

Quote:

I find it very interesting!!! I've Been shooting for 47 years. I'm 59 now Never had any problems

With any brake On the two that I own. Always a first time with someone.

Never said any thing about having problems with brakes...they do the job as advertised.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2404
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: 9.3x57]
#98504 - 06/03/08 01:11 PM

Quote:

Double D:

Any theories as to why the POI?

I am guessing something to do with barrel harmonics.

IIRC, when add-on brakes were advertized years ago, one of the features was supposed to be no POI change. Not so for mine. The change is to elevation and it is substantial.

Seems a bit odd as the bullet should in theory be gone before the gas pressure hits the brake, unless harmonics are involved due to the extra weight on the muzzle.

Does that seem to make sense?

I absolutely believe it is barrel harmonics. Take a look at the adjustable brake and you can see the effect of harmonics and how it can be controlled. By the way did you know the patent holder on that brake was told by Savage to go pound sand when he filed against them. There words were our pockets are deeper than yours. The target shooters use all kinds of tuner to adjust harmonics.

Quote:

Of the piles of rifles you have tested, do you remember if those with freefloated barrels are effected more or less than bedded barrels?

Most were free floating as that was what the company sold. If a gun wasn't going to shoot it was most likely to be a fully bedded or pressure point rifle in a wood stock. Fully bedded or pressure point in glass stock no problem if put back in the stock correctly.

Of course there were rifles that just wouldn't shoot no matter what you did to them, they were just lemons.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: DoubleD]
#98505 - 06/03/08 01:19 PM

Interesting.

Thanks for the info.

A relatively easy experiment would be to hang a cap of equal weight to the brake on in place of the brake and see what happens...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Bramble
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Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: 9.3x57]
#98527 - 06/03/08 06:58 PM

Isen't an adjustable break at the heart of the Browning "BOSS" system for barrel tuning?

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member

Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: 9.3x57]
#98534 - 06/03/08 11:22 PM

Vais brake

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=596689&t=11082005

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: Mike_McGuire]
#98546 - 07/03/08 01:43 AM

Thanks Mike!

Bramble, yes, that is, the Browning BOSS could be had with brake or without. It makes an adjustable tuning fork out of a gun barrel.

I wonder, if the muzzle blast and super-sonic crack of the bullet could be ENTIRELY eliminated, what does a gun barrel sound like at the shot? Or is the frequency too high a range to be heard by the human ear?

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26585
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: 9.3x57]
#98550 - 07/03/08 02:06 AM

Rod- any time you change the harmonics of the barrel, you change the 'time' of the bullet's departure to a different muzzle location, IE: the change of harmonics, as I understand this, is to the wave length and maybe shape as well - so- in stead of the bullet exiting at a low node, or high as the case should be, it exits somewhere else, thus a change in the POI.
; The browning brake, adjusts the weight in or out, only slightly, but it has a profound effect in some guns, expecially with light barrels.
: Buddy of mine bought a .338 Browning from a deceased friend's widow. The original owner thought it shot just fine, and it did, for a moose hunting rifle - about 2" with his loads(which was the same load used by buddy-normally. The original owner always thought his 2 1/2" groups were due to him, not the rifle.
: Buddy adjusted the brake about 3/8" in all, and the same group shoots into .6" for 5 shots. Barrel harmonics are an interesting thing.
: I've known on match shooters who pick a load due to it's consistancy, then cut 1/8" off the end of the barrel until the load shoots sub 1/2", then leave it there. it usually only takes an inch in all of change to get the harmonics to exit the bullet at the top, or bottom of a node. Big groups come from consistant Sd loaded bullets exiting in the middle of the nodes or from poor Sd's loads tht exit all over the specturm from low to high. These usually shot a low of vertical in the group.
; I don't have much of a handle on barrel harmonics, but this is some of what I've learned - right or wrong- seems to work in thoery.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2404
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: Bramble]
#98555 - 07/03/08 02:25 AM

Quote:

Isen't an adjustable break at the heart of the Browning "BOSS" system for barrel tuning?

Yes the Boss is the system Browning got from Savage.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Luckydog
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Reged: 27/02/08
Posts: 56
Loc: Huntin' In Colorado

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: DoubleD]
#98578 - 07/03/08 08:35 AM

I shot the 375 today and zeroed in at 100 yards. It did not kick as hard as my Rem 700 300 Ultra Mag. No muzzle brake or magna port needed, just a Simms Limbsaver recoil pad and all was good. I got some more questions about scopes and where you guys put your zero, but I'll start a new thread on that after I take a nap with my baby girl! I love having a day off work!!!

--------------------
Make Sure You Vote, And Make Sure Your Friends Vote!!

When they outlaw guns...I'll be an outlaw! Reese

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Bramble
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Reged: 29/07/06
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Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: Luckydog]
#98587 - 07/03/08 11:34 AM

See I was'nt being nasty

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States

Re: Muzzle Brake Or Porting? [Re: Bramble]
#98591 - 07/03/08 11:57 AM

Quote:

See I was'nt being nasty

No, you weren't.

You were being right.

Luckydog, glad all's working well. Keep us posted!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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