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EricD
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Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight
      #97158 - 21/02/08 04:15 AM

Just to try something a bit different, I'm going to put one of these Recknagel rear sight blades on a 9,3x62 that is being fixed up.



Have any of you guys tried this sight? I believe Echols often uses them?

The front sight (actually made in SS) will be identical to Recknagels "Masterpiece" banded front sight. So I can switch blades with the ones supplied by Recknagel. These come in a variety of hights, shapes and colors. I'm thinking of using a 2.5mm white bead.




The rear sight is far from traditional, but as this will be a gun I'll use as a dog handler, function matters more than fashion. I'm thinking that the open sides will let me see more of the animal when close up in dark forest situations if needed.


Erik


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9.3x57
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: EricD]
      #97161 - 21/02/08 04:36 AM

Oh no...The Sight Topic...

Actually, it looks interesting to me also. I think Kalunga has this setup on one of his guns. Maybe he can give us some feedback. I have no experience with it.

By the way, please tell us more about your 9.3x62.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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EricD
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: 9.3x57]
      #97164 - 21/02/08 05:03 AM

It's a Brno ZG-47 in 30-06 that is being rebarreled to 9,3x62 that I will use as a dog handler gun when moosehunting. The gunsmith will put on a very light Basner “Hi Tech” synthetic stock, and a 48cm SS Lothar Walther barrel. He’ll also thread the front for a Norwegian produced modular moderator. At the shortest, it will add about 11-12 cm to the barrel length, still making it short/handy enough as a dog handler rifle, but sparing my (and the dogs) ears a bit.

I have a S&B "Flashdot" 1.1-4 scope on it from before with Talley rings.

I’m thinking of getting the whole thing Duracoated in the end. Hopefully it should be finished just after Easter

Erik


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9.3x57
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: EricD]
      #97166 - 21/02/08 05:11 AM

Excellent, your ole' Brno! That's really cool. A gun with history already makes for the best base, I think.

I'm not sure what you mean by "moderator". Is that what we would call a muzzle brake or vented barrel attachment? Do you have a link to the maker?

Sounds like you already have it settled, but for a really bullet proof metal finish, machine paint over Parkerizing/Phosphating is ugly, but absolutely rustproof.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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EricD
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: 9.3x57]
      #97169 - 21/02/08 05:41 AM

Quote:



I'm not sure what you mean by "moderator". Is that what we would call a muzzle brake or vented barrel attachment? Do you have a link to the maker?





Actually, quite the opposite of a noisy muzzle brake.

It looks like what you might call it a "silencer". Although it is naturally not totally silent, as this would require subsonic loads.

This one is special however due to it being modular. In other words, besides the base part, you can add up to 6 modules which add an extra 2cm each. The more you add the more noise reduction. But this also makes it longer and heavier. So the optimal thing for my use is to use only 1 or 2 modules while hunting, and use all 6 when having fun at the range.

http://www.a-tec.no/lyddempere.html

The one pictured is not the modular one I’m talking about, but a standard telescopic one. In other words, half of it slides back onto the barrel, making it usable only for barrels without front sights. The front mounted modular one I am going to use is unfortunately not pictured on his website yet.

Erik


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peter
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: 9.3x57]
      #97170 - 21/02/08 05:45 AM

Quote:


I'm not sure what you mean by "moderator". Is that what we would call a muzzle brake or vented barrel attachment? Do you have a link to the maker?





that would be the PC term for a silencer, they are allowed to use them in sweden and norway(lucky bastards)

eric i have used those sights at driven boar hunt and they are great for the fast and furios shots
you wont be dissapointed with them on a doghandler gun.


best

peter

Edited by peter (21/02/08 05:50 AM)


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Kalunga
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: peter]
      #97171 - 21/02/08 06:15 AM

I am using the Recknagel rear sight on my Ruger Magnum in .416 Rigby and I like it better than the original express sight. It is installed "reverse", the sight is angling backwards to prevent any reflexions from sunlight. Right now I am buying a double in .470 and will have the same sight installed, but this time with a better front sight. On the Ruger I played around with a fiber optic front sight but as other members already know it gives a somewhat fuzzy sight picture and is very delicate too. So now I will use the Recknagel in connection with a brass front bead. The Recknagel rear sight is very sturdy and well made, I think it`s a very good sight for close range combat with unsocial kind of game.
Maybe one day I will try the Recknagel Masterpiece front sight , I very much like the idea of changing the front sights as well as the possibility to adjust them for elevation.


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9.3x57
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: Kalunga]
      #97175 - 21/02/08 07:00 AM

Gotcha!

Yes, "silencers" to us here. I believe they are legal in Finland, too?

Actually, they are quite legal here as well {Federally}, though a fellow must register them and pay a $200 tax also. In addition, States may trump Federal law with additional regulations. Here in Idaho, as with machineguns and short barrel rifles and shotguns, no problem.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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EricD
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: peter]
      #97238 - 22/02/08 05:49 AM

Quote:


that would be the PC term for a silencer, they are allowed to use them in sweden and norway(lucky bastards)


peter




Peter, I think this is actually very fair. You get to buy cheap booze and we don't. We get to use silencers and you don't.


Erik


Ps. The Finns can also use them.


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peter
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: EricD]
      #97247 - 22/02/08 08:04 AM

Quote:

Quote:


that would be the PC term for a silencer, they are allowed to use them in sweden and norway(lucky bastards)


peter




Peter, I think this is actually very fair. You get to buy cheap booze and we don't. We get to use silencers and you don't.


Erik


Ps. The Finns can also use them.




actually i have permits for owning silencers, i just cant use them while hunting. consering the boze i just have to load up the land rover next autum and drive up to you, consider it foreign aid.
the mead should ready by then. that is the most evil alcohol in the world you can drink it like a normal soft drink, taste like fruty port and will only kick in when you try to stand up to take a piss.
i got about 50 gallon fermenting at the moment and this one seems like it would be a great year.

regarding the sight go for it it really is good for løshundjagt.

best regards

peter


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allenday
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: EricD]
      #97382 - 24/02/08 01:03 AM

I have a 375 H&H that Echols completed for me over 8 years ago that has very similar sights, particularly the standing skeletonized rear blade on a pedestal base, only the sights on my rifle were made by EAW.

In terms of quality construction, efficiency, and functional utility, I don't see how this design can be improved upon in any meaningful way. The simple, non-folding, rugged rear sight is FAST to acquire and doesn't obscure the target, and it's high enough to work perfectly with a high, straight-combed stock that's designed primarily for scope use, and it works perfectly well with detachable scope bases.

Fundamentally, it makes many of the older open sights rather obsolete.

If I were to build another serious-use hunting rifle that was to feature a scope in detachable rings, this open-sight system would remain my first choice.

AD


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Kalunga
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: allenday]
      #97988 - 01/03/08 12:42 AM

I just tried to post a photo here for the first time:



EDIT: I removed a few extra [IMG]. Erik

Edited by ErikD (01/03/08 12:46 AM)


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Kalunga
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: Kalunga]
      #97989 - 01/03/08 12:43 AM

Shit ! It doesn`t work

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EricD
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: Kalunga]
      #97992 - 01/03/08 12:53 AM

.

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EricD
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: Kalunga]
      #98049 - 01/03/08 05:46 PM

Kalunga,

It's interesting that your rear sight is slanting the "wrong" way. At least compared to what is traditional. Have you found this more or less functional in various light situations?


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Kalunga
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: EricD]
      #98053 - 01/03/08 09:59 PM

ErikD, yes I like the "wrong" way better, it is impossible that sunlight is reflecting from the sight, so the rear sight appears always dark and clear. This is one of the few cases I followed the advice from a first class target shooter. I will have the same sight installed the same way on my double.

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9.3x57
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: Kalunga]
      #98056 - 02/03/08 12:35 AM

I like the fact that Kalunga got curious enough about the thing enough to try it differently and then found out he liked it better the other way 'round. It is said that "Necessity is the mother of invention" but I think invention just plains starts with curiousity sometimes. Very interesting.

Has anyone ever seen such a sight with a flat top and square rear notch made by Recknagel or not?

ErikD, will you be doing any chronographing with your 9.3x62? I'm a committed barrel-chopper and I have kicked around the idea of having a Li'l Stubby 9.3x57 or x62 made for a while, and have wondered about the efficiency of the two and just how close an 18-inch x57 might come to x62 velocities.

Thanks for posting the pic's of the Moderator/Silencer.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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EricD
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98060 - 02/03/08 01:48 AM

9,3x57

I will be chronographing various loads. Especially with some North Fork 250 grain and 286 grain bullets. I'll also be testing the velocity of other bullets too no doubt.


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DarylS
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: EricD]
      #98077 - 02/03/08 04:59 AM

I-too prefer a backward slant on the sight. The sight picture is almost always clear, whereas a bright sun can almost blind on a shiny 'edge' of a foreward sloping sight.
: If the gun was to be used in darkness, the foreward slope would help somewhat to see it.
: Rod - I suspect the 9.3x62 will beat the '57 by about 200fps, both with normal max loads. The '57 should be slightly more efficient, but they both use powders of similar burning rates. Ball powders don't normally do well with short barrels, but actual testing it the only way to find out - as with most ballistics questions.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: DarylS]
      #98079 - 02/03/08 05:44 AM

Quote:

I-too prefer a backward slant on the sight. The sight picture is almost always clear, whereas a bright sun can almost blind on a shiny 'edge' of a foreward sloping sight.
: If the gun was to be used in darkness, the foreward slope would help somewhat to see it.
: Rod - I suspect the 9.3x62 will beat the '57 by about 200fps, both with normal max loads. The '57 should be slightly more efficient, but they both use powders of similar burning rates. Ball powders don't normally do well with short barrels, but actual testing it the only way to find out - as with most ballistics questions.




ErikD: You must have a prized supply of the now-defunct North Forks, yes?

Also, what does the silencer cost? And what is round count life of the thing when fired thru with full power loads? And...does POI actually stay the same with the thing on and off?

Daryl, that is what I'm thinking but as you say, running some over the chronie will tell the tale for sure.

I just had a Limbsaver pad hung on my light 46, and I've been mulling over the trimming of the tube back, too, as much for curiousity's sake as any other.

Mulling Erik's shorty over, a fellow could set a goal for velocity of several favorite loads, then bring rifle and hacksaw to the range, saw and chronie, saw and chronie until the minimum is reached and then call it good. Hang a front sight on it and have it crowned and it would be golden. In the example of the x57, a 286 grain minimum might be 2025 fps. In the example of the x62, 2150 or something like that. Or who knows, maybe more? I think the x62 appears to be a good short-tube round and might do a bit better...2200 with a really stubby barrel like the 18-incher. Or maybe I am wrong and the x62 wouldn't do much better than the x57. I know that with a long leade and the longer magazine, my 146 will handle charge weights {not chronographed} that I will not quote as they are skyhigh over the regularly kicked around norms for the x57.

I'm guessing that 46 of mine might go 5 lbs with an 18-inch tube! Even with the 24-inch barrel, I haven't yet found a better bear gun for chasing bear with hounds in these mountains.

In theory at least, using a 24-inch barrel to start off with, the thing gets "stiffer" as the length is lopped, and should hold its accuracy very well, particularly with scope, tho the shortened sight radius might have an impact on fine bench accuracy. No worry for 50 meter stuff on hjort, elg or, for that matter, even on rådyr.

Can't wait to see your Brno, Erik. I hope pictures are planned once it is dressed up and ready to dance.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98087 - 02/03/08 07:19 AM

I kinda like the 24 1/2" bl. on my M46 and will leave it such. The length of my 2 mediums, the 9.3x57 and the .385/06 IMP are almost identical, with the .375 weighing 1 1/2 pounds more at 9 pounds sans scope. It needs it, actually, as it boots pretty hard. I'd not want it any lighter. From the FPE category, getting 4,200fpe from an '06 case hits at both ends.
: Unless the stock is quite straight, don't you find the shorter the barrel, the higher the muzzle rise?
; With iron sighted stocks, muzzle rise will be fairly high.
; In thinking it over, the velocity of the short 9.3x62 might surprise you with 286gr., if driven by BLC2. The muzzleflash may or may not be excessive, but I'd lay odds it will run over 2,300fps. Since the original loads ran 2,175fps or so, anything over that is gravy.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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EricD
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98090 - 02/03/08 08:03 AM

Quote:


ErikD: You must have a prized supply of the now-defunct North Forks, yes?




Yes. I have enough in various calibers to last a while.

Quote:

Also, what does the silencer cost? And what is round count life of the thing when fired thru with full power loads? And...does POI actually stay the same with the thing on and off?




About US$500.00

It's all steel, and will most likely outlive the life of at least one 9,3x62 barrel at full loads. Obviously if you were going to mount one on something full auto, resulting in constant extreme heat a lot, it's life would be shorter. But for normal calibers under normal use this isn't an issue.

I can't say if POI will stay the same with this rifle or not, since I haven't gotten that far yet! However, I have shot with quite a few rifles where POI isn't effected, while I've shot with others that do change a bit depending on if the silencer is on or off.

As for the slant of the rear sight, since my main use will be in dark, dense forest, I will go with it in the traditional way.

Erik


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: EricD]
      #99727 - 20/03/08 07:23 AM

Hey wait a minute! Who says the rear sight is the "wrong way"? The Charles Lancaster .280 NE double rifle I used to own (now owned by dnovo), has its rear sight slanted to the rear.

I looked for a photo. None of mine show it, but the photo from Don Masters' book does. Here it is:



Curl

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93mouse
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: EricD]
      #99733 - 20/03/08 08:52 AM

Quote:

Just to try something a bit different, I'm going to put one of these Recknagel rear sight blades on a 9,3x62 that is being fixed up.



Have any of you guys tried this sight? I believe Echols often uses them?

The front sight (actually made in SS) will be identical to Recknagels "Masterpiece" banded front sight. So I can switch blades with the ones supplied by Recknagel. These come in a variety of hights, shapes and colors. I'm thinking of using a 2.5mm white bead.




The rear sight is far from traditional, but as this will be a gun I'll use as a dog handler, function matters more than fashion. I'm thinking that the open sides will let me see more of the animal when close up in dark forest situations if needed.


Erik




Erik you will find skeleton rear VERY serviceable specially when taking a shot on game running away, where you had to cover the target or even lead it - more so when standing above the animal. I would give a white bead a second thought tho - picking it out in snowy conditions might be difficult - just a thought.


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escard
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Re: Recknagel "Skeleton" rear sight [Re: 93mouse]
      #99757 - 20/03/08 05:33 PM

I tried that rear-sight two times while hunting with a friends rifle that was fixed with this sight....wheras it gave a fine picture when hunting in light open area, it failed to work for me in heavy dark bush-checkered woodland (not nearly as good contrast and speed of sighting measured against a solid rear-sight), but this was my personal opinion...you should have the chance to try it by yourself....

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