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Stuart
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Reged: 24/05/07
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Loc: Mission, B.C., Canada
98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62
      #89074 - 16/11/07 04:05 AM

My apologies if this has been covered before... I have seen used Husqvarnas chambered in this calibre on both M96 & M98 actions. Is the 96 action really strong enough for this cartridge or marginal?

Stuart

--------------------
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by
smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles
who really mean it. (Mark Twain)


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9.3x57
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Stuart]
      #89075 - 16/11/07 04:26 AM

Stuart;

This issue has been debated over and over again on a Forum devoted to Swedish commercial arms.

Without making any statements about strength per se, I can tell you that the 96 actions will require strict attention to shorter-than-normal overall length of handloads and many factory loads may require reseating and concommitant pressure testing also.

The 9.3x62 cartridge is an interesting one in that loads, and I suspect pressures, vary greatly, with some published factory loads and handloads using 285 grain bullets generating velocities in the 2200 fps all the way up to 2500 { } or so.

In deference to the lack of a safety lug, marginal gas deflection and gas venting features of the 96 as compared to the 98, I'd keep loads on the low side for sure.

I have 96 and 98-actioned 9.3x57's. That cartridge is probably a better choice for the 96 action in that bullets can be seated to the mag and leade length limits which provide in my gun one-caliber seating in the neck and maximum case capacity. I keep my loads in the 96 action rifle to just under 2100 fps with a 285 grain bullet. It is a sure killer, and I reckon if a guy had a nice condition 96 in 9.3x62 he could make good work with it and still keep pressures low.

The 96-action rifles have one neat thing going for them in that they make for a very trim, light and handy rifle. My 96-action x57 weighs 5 1/2 lbs {with Svensk jaktdiopter peep rear sight} and is pure joy to carry and is, miraculously to me and others who have shot it quite gentle on the shoulder, too.

Have you got one of these guns or are you shopping?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Stuart
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #89131 - 17/11/07 02:01 AM

9ThreeXFifty7,

Sorry to rehash this subject. Yes, now that you remind me I believe here was a discussion on the Swedish Mauser forum. (In fact I have a funny feeling that I may have even participated in it! I've been away from the forums for some time due to building a new house, which has taken just about all my time and energy.) I don't have one but have seen a number of Husqvarnas for sale up here, mostly 8x57 and 9.3x57 but the odd 9.3x62 has turned up, on both 96 and 98 actions and I've been tempted... However, since I'm not in a rush, I'll just wait until a decent 98 action comes up.

Stuart

--------------------
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by
smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles
who really mean it. (Mark Twain)


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DarylS
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Stuart]
      #89133 - 17/11/07 03:11 AM

Good condition ,96 actions have been rechambered for rounds such as the .264 WinMag by others and the 6.5x68(by me). While I didn't go for maximum loads, I was still able to hit 3,100fps with 130gr. bullets.
; I believe a wildcatter named "Arch" noted in Ackely's books, was instrumental in showing the actual strength of the 96 actions and was the one who re-cahmbered tham to .264 Win Mag, then developed his own 6.5 Imp Arch on the 6.5x55 case. At this time, I have virtually the same action, either a M92 or m94, I think, that was factory chambered in .308 Winchester in Europe. That, my friends, is a 63,000 to 64,000PSI round.
; I would think the action is a bit short for factory 9.3x62 and I'd stay with shorter rounds. The 6.5x68, were, of coruse, to long as well and a single-shot propositon. It was my long range deer rifle for a season. Effective, too.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (17/11/07 03:13 AM)


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9.3x57
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Stuart]
      #89138 - 17/11/07 05:05 AM

Quote:

9ThreeXFifty7,

Sorry to rehash this subject.

Stuart




Not a problem! It is an interesting topic and as Daryl points out, not one in which all have the same comfort level.

The way I see it, the 96 is a strong action, but it simply does not have the safety features that were true improvements resulting in the 98. Gas venting in all aspects is much improved in the 98, and the 98 is for that reason alone deemed far more "safe" in my estimation, though "stronger" may or may not apply. It also possesses a safety lug in the rare event the main locking lugs shear.

One more aspect that might be of interest is also the reported {few, admittedly} failures of, IIR C 1942-made Husqvarna military actions the cause of which has been debated but may be a combination of poor heat treatment {temper} leaving the actions and/or bolts brittle and some ammunition problem. The real point to me is not so much that some actions let go, as probably all actions have had failures at some point, but rather the results of the failures, which as reported on the Swede forum in military service resulted in some catastrophic maimings and deaths. Again, this is not a broad indictment of the 94/96 action but merely a reflection on its lack of added safety features vis a vis the 98. A lug shear incident with a bolt that does not possess a safety lug is nothing to sneeze at, assuming the shooter has a nose left to sneeze...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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John303
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #89156 - 17/11/07 10:06 AM

Just a suggestion, but perhaps the best of both worlds. Why not a small ring "98" Mauser action, a 33/40 or an FN Supreme. Rather scarce but it might be worth the effort. I have a custom 6mm Rem. on a FN Supreme action that I purchased from Browning many years ago-very nice action to say the least. --- John303

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DarylS
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: John303]
      #89199 - 18/11/07 03:09 AM

Lack of the gas-handling feature of the more advanced 98 action, as 9.3 points out is a common complaint of the M96.
: Please note that the 96 has similar gas handling features, and perhaps better even, than the Winchester M70 and Remington M700 modern actions.
: The M98 is to be preferred for a 2.5" case like the 9.3x62, but a good M96 is indeed a good action for a variety of modern, shorter rounds.
: My curent M96 6.5x55 was purchased locally from a gun store, and turned out to have a brand new barreled action. Shortened to 22", it drives 129gr. Interlocks out at 2,966fps and 140gr.'ers at 2,870fps. This in no ay hurts the brass, so loading thusly in this particular rifle is within it's boundaries. There are no flies on the 6.5 nor it's action, the M96.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Peterb
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Stuart]
      #89283 - 19/11/07 01:37 PM

There was a warehouse full of used Husqvarnas of which many have come to the US. I picked up several 9.3 x 62's with broken stocks and am restocking them now. Being a wood dealer has its benefits. These are a couple of Earl Milliron patterns in Tessia French walnut.




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FourWinds
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Peterb]
      #89706 - 25/11/07 07:10 AM

I'm a proud Husqvarna 9.3 user. I have 2 FN '98 commercial actioned 9.3x62s and a '96 actioned 9.3x57.

I also own one of the later "commercial" '96 style rifles in 8x57. These rifles have an action with no allowance for a thumbcut for clip loading. They were, I believe, made in the postwar period. Although Husqvarna made some earlier 9.3x 62s on the standard '96 action, from what I've seen, the majority of the 9.3x62s on '96 actions are on this later, and much stronger action.

I have used standard, fairly stout loads, similar in performance to european loads, not US loads, in my commercial '96 8x57. I've also used Norma, Lapua, and Privi Partisan "factory" loads in my little 8x57. I believe these actions are very strong. If a 9.3x62, in this same model, were to pass my way for a reasonable price, and most of them are reasonably priced, I'd snap it up. These are the rifles that come from the same place where Norma and Lapua ammunition are made.

The same lack of safety lug and the gas deflection issues are still present. The magazines are the standard '96 length, and need to have bullets seated appropriately.

If you're a prudent reloader, and don't try to push a cartridge which, at least in my mind, really doesn't need pushing anyway, I don't think you'd be disappointed with one of these later styled Husqvarna rifles.

There's a Swedish Sporting Arms forum at www.gunboards.com with some folks with a wealth of knowledge on these rifles. You might give them a try.


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Stuart
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #91352 - 12/12/07 07:11 PM

Quote:

….Have you got one of these guns or are you shopping?



9ThreeXFifty7,

Well I was sort of shopping at that point but I have just found a Husky in 9.3x57 on a 98 action (not sure if it's a small- or large- ring) that is going to the 'smith's to be reamed to 9.3x62 before coming to me:




I don't fancy a scope sitting that high so I'll want to find a lower mounting alternative, apparently the rear sight is fixed, the safety looks a little apologetic and the white-line spacer on the recoil pad is a rather tacky (IMHO), so there will be a few things to work on when it arrives!

Stuart

--------------------
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by
smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles
who really mean it. (Mark Twain)


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9.3x57
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Stuart]
      #91360 - 13/12/07 12:36 AM

Stuart, glad you found a rifle!!

I'm going to make some "in my humble opinion" suggestions. Please know I want you to enjoy that gun and my suggesstions are meant in that spirit.

1} You have a 9.3x57 built on a 94/96 action with a walnut stock {some were made up with birch}. I do not see any stamp on the top of the reciver ring, was it ground off? The gun when built by Husqvarna is known as the Model 46. The action has two locking lugs, no safety lug like a 98, and has the small gas shield on the cocking pice, small gas relief holes in the bolt. It is a "small ring" action. I have one of these guns myself. Very light, superb balance, really a great hunting rifle, but not a rifle to push pressures in. It has what appears to be the very common side safety, installed frequently in Sweden by gunsmiths to allow scope use with the rifle. Have your gunsmith check the safety and functioning of this safety. Some of the guns exhibit chambering oddities that may result in a slightly excessive headspace condition. Gunsmith should check that, too. The gun appears to have the proper inletting relief behind the tang. This is good as many of these guns do not and suffer stock cracks as a result. Have your gs check the bedding closely. Most could stand bedding gel in the recoil lug area and the wood behind the tang relieved. Frequently on the Husqvarnas, the actions are bedded so perfectly from the top that they look like they've been poured into the stocks. Trouble is, the Swedes didn't do such a great job where a rifle needs to be bedded, at the recoil lug, and that in combination with the contact at the tange leads to cracking. I suppose I'd keep the old scope mount, but I'd have the gs make sure it is well mounted on the action. And I'd pick a lighter scope so as to avoid stressing the side mount too much. Minor point there, but make sure the mount is well secured, as the screws take the force of recoil directly, which is a little differently than a top mount where the recoil rides both back and up against and into the mounts.

2} I would NOT have that gun rechambered! The action will not feed many full length factory 9.3x62 cartridges {magazine is not long enough} and you will have to either reseat bullets deeper {be careful of pressures here} or handload exclusively. I would not want to push max 9.3x62 loads and pressures in it either. Save the money and use it on ammunition.

3} All is not lost, however. In fact, there are advantages to the 9.3x57 round! First, the round was most likely designed specifically for your action and it fits the 46 perfectly. If you are stuck with handloading anyway, cheap 8x57 cases are available to use to make 9.3x57 rounds; one pass thru the Hornady sizer is all it takes for mine. The ballistics of the 9.3x57 make it good on deer, moose and elk to 200 yards and there are lots of bullets available. A 285 grain bullet can typically be run at 2100 fps. I have killed deer, elk, black bear and other ranch trash with the gun at from bayonet range to a little over 200 yards. Good cartridge. I shot a big 1000 pound semi-wild steer angling thru both shoulders with the round at 70 yards and it exited {Hornady .375 caliber 270 grain Spire Point resized to .365}. That was over 2 feet of penetration. The round has been and is used on moose in Scandinavia for a hundred years.

In sum, if it was mine, I'd leave it in 9.3x57 and shoot game with it! Congrats on a neat gun!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Stuart
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #91367 - 13/12/07 02:45 AM

Quote:

Stuart, glad you found a rifle!!

I'm going to make some "in my humble opinion" suggestions. Please know I want you to enjoy that gun and my suggestions are meant in that spirit....!




9ThreeXFifty7,

Many thanks for your suggestions. I was wondering if it was a small ring and I think I will take your advice and leave it in 9.3x57 if it is at all "iffy" to rechamber it. (I doubt I will ever point it at a Cape Buff anyway, but with slightly lighter bullets in 9.3x57 it should be fine for any larger plains game that my P-14 .303 Epps might not handle- this is for the "second" Africa trip, bearing in mind that I haven't made the first one yet!) I had planned to check the bedding and glass-bed it anyway.

Stuart

--------------------
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by
smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles
who really mean it. (Mark Twain)


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DarylS
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Stuart]
      #91391 - 13/12/07 09:13 AM

The only real trouble with re-chambering it, is the magazine length - the 2.5 case has a loaded length of about 3/10" too long. Well, that and getting the barrel off for re-cahmbering without destroying it. I've not been able to get a '96 barrel off without ringing (slicing) the barrel ahead of the action ring to the depth of the threads, just to relieve the hoop stress. Those were military actions though - perhaps they used a shorter wrench to put sporter barrels on with.
; The standard 9x57 should be perfect and in considerably more powerful than the .303 or .30/06. It's in the same ballpark as a .358 Winchester.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NE450No2
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: DarylS]
      #91413 - 13/12/07 11:47 AM

Stuart

I agree with 9ThreeXFifty7, I would not rechamber it.

While not quite as powerful as a 9,3x62 or a 9,3x74R the 9,3x57 is a good hunting cartridge is it's own right.

I have used the 270 Speer in my X74 for deer and pigs with excellent results.

At the velocities of the 9,3x57 I think it would work on moose and black bear as well.

Also take a look at the 285 gr Hawk with the .035jkt.


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9.3x57
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: NE450No2]
      #91437 - 13/12/07 02:40 PM

My favorite bullet for the x57 is the Prvi Partizan 285 grain RN.

Alas, they are not being imported. Last sold, they cost $19.99 per 100. Yes, that's right, less than 20 bucks per hundred.

For some reason Graf's is having some trouble getting them back in.

Anybody who wants to see them again, please call Graf's and ask for them!!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #91441 - 13/12/07 03:46 PM

I-too think the 270 Speer would be a great bullet, with excellent penetration at the 57mm case's velocity levels.
; It should run in the 2,225 to 2,250fps range with top-end loads in the m96.
; If memory seerves me correctly, John Taylor placed the 9.3x62's original speeds, those that gave it, it's fame and glory in Africa, at 2,157fps range with the 286gr., soft and solid.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Paul
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #91464 - 13/12/07 09:20 PM

If I may go off at a tangent, you mention relieving the wood behind the tang to stop cracking ...
We have an FN Mauser 98 sporterized .30/06 that has long had a fine crack extending about a quarter inch from the tang. Is it too late to relieve the wood there to stop the crack going any further?


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9.3x57
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Paul]
      #91473 - 14/12/07 12:51 AM

Quote:

If I may go off at a tangent, you mention relieving the wood behind the tang to stop cracking ...
We have an FN Mauser 98 sporterized .30/06 that has long had a fine crack extending about a quarter inch from the tang. Is it too late to relieve the wood there to stop the crack going any further?




First, here are some tests I shot with the 270 Speer:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=1264

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=1245


I have never used the 270 Speer on game but it appears to a pretty good bullet for the 9.3x57 from the tests I've done. I still have a hoard of 285 Prvi's I use on game.

Paul:

This I don't consider OT considering it is a common problem with Husky's {and many Mauser sporters from what I'm told}. Tang area cracks are routinely fixed on Husqvarnas. What I mean is, if a guy can't fix Husky tang cracks he better buy Remingtons or golf clubs! Used ones VERY frequently are cracked there.

My fix is simple;

Remove barreled action. Drill holes in the cracked area from the area inside the action inletting where they cannot be seen from the top. Get a syringe that fits the holes and inject Acraglas gel into the holes while at the same time GENTLY spreading the stock open with a wooden wedge or some other method {prying with the ball end of a ballpeen hammer, etc, whatever works, there are "sreader" clamps that work, too}.

When the gel oozes out of the crack at the top, clamp the stock together at the wrist and wipe off the oozed out gel with a rag dampened with paint thinner.

The only tricky part is that you will have some flowback into the tang area. You can either pack the hole openings there with tape, toilet paper or a combination {or something else that gets the job done OR you can plug the holes with the action itself by bedding the tang area at the same time you fill the holes which is IMHO the best way to do it.

If you bed the action which is my preference, MAKE SURE THE WRIST IS FIRMLY CLAMPED BEFORE YOU SET THE ACTION INTO THE STOCK or the action will spread the stock and "advertise" the wrist repair!

Once all hardens, you remove the stock and take a piece of 100 grit sandpaper and wrap it around a dowel and carefully round out the area behind the tang, opening it so there is no contact between it and the action tang.

Voila, done!

NO NEED for cross bolts thru the tang area {brass screws, bolts, dowels, etc} that are unsightly and in the worst case can actually weaken the stock badly. The above-described repair is frequently invisible from the top {sometimes the gel can be seen, so dye it properly according to directions} but properly-filled with Acraglas gel you will have a very strong repair, probably far stronger than the wood was to start with!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #91480 - 14/12/07 03:00 AM

Most Husky's were cracked at the tang, not becasue of wood to metal fit, but due to overly long steel screw bushings. Bushings that are too long, allow the floor-plate and action to be screwed together, but loose from the stock itself. They are an early form of pillar bedding, except the 'pillar' isn't glued to the wood as in modern pillar bedding.
; If the stock isn't cracked, I remove the steel bushing and screw things down tight - never cracks after that. if it's cracked, I repair it similarly to 9.3x57, then removed the bushing and it never cracks there. Properly bedded, an the stock won't crack, as long as the wood is strong enough for the ctg. the rifle is chambered for.
; I had a .375/06IMP that used to crack the stock every 400 to 1,000 rounds. After repairing it 3 times, I finally re-stocked it. The wood was a beautiful, but extremely soft and open pored piece of highly figured claro I got from Fagen's back in 72. It originally failed on my .458 2", got re-bedded, cross-pinned and lasted well over 1,000 more rounds before spitting the second time. I pulled te .458 barrel, replaced it with a .375" tube, and carried on, shooting and repairing. Actually, it did quite well considering the punky wood.
How many guys on this site still haven't fired 1,000 rounds of centrefire hunting ammunition? Certainly those who don't load and there are a lot of them here.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: DarylS]
      #91483 - 14/12/07 03:49 AM

Daryl, the condition you describe is, of course, an issue of wood to metal fit. Husky's {particularly Model 146's and the 640 series} have alot of bedding "issues", some arising out of pure poor relief at the tang, some from a host of other problem areas. Many are indeed loose in the stock, but the source of tang cracking is frequently found farther forward; poor contact between the recoil lug and the stock recoil shoulder. That in conjunction with being bedded up tight at the tang at the factory results in stock cracking at the tang even if the action is tight to the stock as over time the stock settles into the recoil shoulder but not until cracks form at the tang.

You touch on another interesting point too. I have a Husqvarna 648 that has a very soft walnut stock. Bedding it in epoxy at the recoil lug shoulder has cured the problem of never-ending setback, but without that it would likely have been a repeat offender just as you describe. Interestingly, it came to me in essentially new condition, with, as described above, very poor recoil-lug-stock contact.

Yes, epoxy bedding at the recoil shoulder is recommended also.

There is lots of discussion of this topic over on the Swedish commercial arms forum, though I believe lots was lost when the forum changed software a few months ago. If you want to know something about Husky's or other Scandinavian arms, it is hard to beat the knowledge and experience of those represented there From Jarmann's and Krags to Husky's and S&L's, somebody has "been there and done that". Great site.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Stuart
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #91493 - 14/12/07 06:47 AM

Quote:

My favorite bullet for the x57 is the Prvi Partizan 285 grain RN.
Alas, they are not being imported....




There's a chap up here in B.C. who seems to be able to get all sorts of stuff, although it's usually from the US that we can't personally import. I might ask him if he has a lead on Prvi Partizan. At those prices, they would be good for practice, too. Unfortunately, we can't usually get Hawk, North Fork (who do a 250 & 286 gr in 9.3) or other smaller makers' products, due to BATF restrictions on your side although Canada Customs has no problem with them. We do get Barnes and the other larger manufacturers, though, and Woodleigh, although Woodleighs are hellish expensive up here. (A box of 174 gr. .303 were something like $54.00 IIRC. Made me cry when I saw Midway's prices.) Barnes TSX might be a good choice, too, as long as OAL isn't a problem.

Stuart

--------------------
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by
smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles
who really mean it. (Mark Twain)


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gathumper
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Stuart]
      #92418 - 22/12/07 03:32 PM

9.3,

Your 9.3x57 that weights 5.5lbs, does it have a wood stock?

Stuart,

How much does your gun weight without a scope?

I was wondering, because I want a light weight, wood stock, and open sighted gun to ride in the scabbard of my saddle. I beleive I'm going to try and see if I can hunt from horseback next year. I can shoot a shotgun off most of our horses, but I'm not sure about a deer rifle...maybe they won't make me break my neck.

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9.3x57
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: gathumper]
      #92419 - 22/12/07 04:15 PM

Quote:

9.3,

Your 9.3x57 that weights 5.5lbs, does it have a wood stock?

I was wondering, because I want a light weight, wood stock, and open sighted gun to ride in the scabbard of my saddle. I beleive I'm going to try and see if I can hunt from horseback next year. I can shoot a shotgun off most of our horses, but I'm not sure about a deer rifle...maybe they won't make me break my neck.




Wood, original HVA walnut stock somewhat trimmed down. Has the long 24" bbl, too. If I had two like it I'd lop one of them back to 19 or 20 inches and see what it would do. Ours hear gun fire all the time, but we don't shoot off of them. I do not normally hunt from a horse, but have shot grouse while dismounted and holding the shank.

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gathumper
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #92492 - 23/12/07 05:50 PM

I was looking at the rifles on sarco's website and they said theirs wieght in at 7.75lbs...that's a big difference

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9.3x57
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: gathumper]
      #92498 - 24/12/07 12:21 AM

That is probably about the weight of the Model 146's. Without scope and mounts I suspect that is what mine goes or thereabout.

However, the Model 46's I have owned or seen and handled are lighter to begin with. One of the "advantages" of the 94 action {on Model 46 9.3x57's} is its trim and light weight in comparison to the 98. Barrel diameters are different between the 46 and 146, too. Another aspect of the guns is the difference in weight between the stocks. Some of the 46's are stocked in beech, some in walnut, and the walnut-stocked guns seem vary a lot due to wood density. The source of HVA walnut has been discussed a lot on the Swede site but I'm not certain anybody knows exactly where the stocks came from, particularly since there may have been several sources. My 46 was very light to begin with, and then I removed wood and reshaped the comb to allow left-shoulder shooting, and this certainly trimmed some weight down.

Be very careful of SARCO. Probably best to see and handle what you are interested in buying before you lay down the cash...

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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #92517 - 24/12/07 05:10 AM

A fellow from up here sent me a message about the site in Quebec, tradeexcanada.com that has a LOT of swedes in 9.3x57 - all great prices and many with excellent bores and condition. These are sporters, of course. There is also one or two 9.3x62's in the lot long with .30/06's and 8x57's.
; Unfortunately, they only sell here.
: My point is, that since they have a 9.3x62 and many in .30/06 chamberings in the m96 Swede actions, then of course it's possible to barrel or chamber one up. Until now, I'd thought the action's magazine too short - perhaps not.

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9.3x57
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: DarylS]
      #92526 - 24/12/07 07:12 AM

Daryl, yes, Tradex is reported to be an excellent source for the Swede rifle in Canada. In fact, based on my experience with SARCO, and the guns reportedly purchased from Tradex on the Swede forum, I think Tradex is the better source, but as you say, limited to Canada.

Allan's Armory in the USA is an excellent source for the Swede guns.

Husqvarna made quite a few factory 9.3x62's. And...the magazines are too short for many factory 9.3x62 loads. I do not believe the Husqvarna book even makes mention of "why". Speculation of course, but I suspect the reason is merely the economics of available actions at the time the guns wre made. Shooters just made-do. I do not know what the OAL was of commonly available Norma ammo at the time these guns were made. Maybe some loads fit at that time?

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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: gathumper]
      #92616 - 25/12/07 04:11 PM

Quote:

9.3, ... Stuart, How much does your gun weight without a scope?




Sorry not to have got back to you. I've been off the forum for a while. The rifle hasn't arrived yet, but I'm expecting it late this week or early next week. I only have an ancient balance scale here but I'll load her on and see. The previous owner described it as "quite a thumper" so I suspect it is a bit on the light side, but I believe he only shot it from the bench. I doubt it will be as muscular as my Marlin 1895 with medium-stiff loads, though.

Stuart

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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Stuart]
      #92661 - 26/12/07 10:47 AM

Stuart, your battery sounds familiar...

I too have a Marlin 1895. I'll be interested in hearing what you think about the two. With 285 grain bullets at 2050 fps, my light 9.3 feels to me to kick much like the heavier Marlin with 300 grain loads in the 1800 fps velocity range and MUCH less than the Marlin with 400 grain bullets in the 1600 fps range.

My stock mods keep the comb off my face, and that is where much comfort is obtained.

Please report!

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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Stuart]
      #92941 - 30/12/07 10:22 AM

Quote:

Stuart, How much does your gun weight without a scope?



gathumper,

I just picked it up this afternoon. According to the Very Ancient Balance Scale that I have, it appears to weigh about 6 1/2 lbs. Another good reason NOT to convert it to a 9.3x62, methinks! Even as a 9.3x57 I think it will be somewhat energetic and might profit from a little weight added to the stock, although this won't be easy, given the slim forearm and schnabel tip. But I'll hold off on that until I've got dies, brass and bullets and have had a chance to shoot it.

It is very trim and light and appears in v. good shape. The trigger is quite nice, too, with a little creep but a crisp let-off.

It came with an un-named side mount as well, with only the number "23" on it. FAR too high to use in any case!

I was surprised to find that it is a "cock-on-close" action. I thought that was pretty well the domain of the SMLE and P-14. Also that the rear sight is fixed, being adj. only for windage, and that only by means of a drift punch. Like my ex-military M-S sporter, I'd like to replace it but being on a barrel band this could be tricky.

I am also curious about the rear of the bolt:

Does anyone know the purpose of that tubular hole? Might it be for an aperture sight?



Stuart

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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Stuart]
      #92946 - 30/12/07 11:04 AM

The Mauser M96 was always a cock on closing action & can be converted to cock on opening with a kit. The 6.5 X 55 Swedes are converted very commonly here in New Zealand. The hole on you bolt looks like the place where the wing safety has come out of.

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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Nakihunter]
      #92952 - 30/12/07 11:42 AM

Quote:

…The hole on your bolt looks like the place where the wing safety has come out of.




Yes, I realized that AFTER I sent the message! Still, an aperture sight there is an intrigung thought, although it would have to be some sort of custom job. Maybe when I get my milling machine I'll scratch my head around it for a while.

Stuart

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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Stuart]
      #92963 - 30/12/07 12:10 PM

Stuart

There is a thread out there about the repro cocking piece peeps that Rusty has made. I bought one from him and it is very nice. Save you a lot of time and aggro.

Regards


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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Bramble]
      #92967 - 30/12/07 12:35 PM

Stewart - the hole you are referring to, IS where the military safety WAS, not just looks like it. Remove the safety and you get that hole - exactly.
: I did notice that the canadian site also had several .30/06's on M96 actions. I found that quite interesting, and cannot understand how that could be without removing material from the lower rear locking lug of the action and perhaps extending the magazine. I'll have to look at my M96 to se what the maximum action length actually it. I know it handles my 6.5x55's with the bullets seated well out of the case for overall lengths over 3".
: Perhaps the original question on whether or not a 9.3x62 could br chambered up in one of these actions isn't such a bad idea, afterall?
: One thing is certain, that the 9.3 X 57 factory ammo pretty much duplicates original the 1920's 9.3x62 factory ammo of 286gr. running somewhat less than 2,200fps. That's the load that John Taylor spoke so highly of with both softs and solids on all African game.

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Stuart
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Bramble]
      #92973 - 30/12/07 01:37 PM

Quote:

Stuart

There is a thread out there about the repro cocking piece peeps that Rusty has made. I bought one from him and it is very nice. Save you a lot of time and aggro.

Regards



Darn, I vaguely remember that. Must try to find it. EDIT: FOUND IT. "Rusty Marlin" in VA.

Daryl: as to the chambering, I'm going to leave it as a 9.3x57. If I get to hunt with it, I'd probably look into the 250 gr (?)Barnes TSX, which apparently provide similar performance to the 286's but with slightly higher velocity.

Due to other pressing things to do, I won't get a chance to fire the old girl up for a while, so I have lots of time to plan how I want to proceed.

Stuart

--------------------
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by
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who really mean it. (Mark Twain)

Edited by Stuart (30/12/07 01:46 PM)


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9.3x57
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Stuart]
      #92974 - 30/12/07 01:47 PM

The rear sight may, of course be filed to zero.

The quintessential rear sight on one of these things is the original HVA jaktdiopter, semi-Ghost-Ring type peep sight.

I have one on my 46, shown below. Maybe try Tradex and see if they have any?



Nothing beats a 5 1/2 pound 9.3x57 for chaing our scrawny bruins up the mountain!



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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #92988 - 31/12/07 12:37 AM

5.5 pounds - I had no idea they were that light. Even my sporterized 6.5x55 outdoes that by 2 pounds. I-too would leave it as a 57mm case.
; Some of the rifles at tradeex already have peeps installed.

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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: DarylS]
      #92992 - 31/12/07 01:08 AM

Daryl, thanks for posting. Those peep sights are pricey and VERY difficult to find here in the USA, so if you our Northern Brothers can latch on to some thru this Tradex outfit, you are fortunate. The sight is very simple and useful.

I have never even looked up "Tradex" website as from all the good I've heard about it I don't think I really want to know WHAT they have for sale since I can't get any of it anyhow!! Grrr...

As for the weight, my rifle was light when I got it {the 94 action is much trimmer than a 98 and makes for a lighter rifle + barrel contour is trimmer}.

However, if you look at the comb in the picture, you can see that a lot of wood was removed. I totally reshaped the comb to make it suitable for left-shoulder shooting. These guns typically have knife-edge combs that even right-handers say bite the face hard, and since there is some cast-off on the stock, they REALLY cut & whack a lefty who has to lean a bit over the comb to get a good sight picture.

I took a hoof rasp to the comb and files, sandpaper and stock finish later it not only doesn't smack me but there is almost not recoil bit to the face at all, the sights line right up, and the rifle is that much lighter. I have done this to all my HVA's.

As a lefty, I like cock on closing, as the primary compression of the mainspring doesn't have to be overcome until the weight of the arm is behind the bolt in closing.

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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #93007 - 31/12/07 04:52 AM

Quote:

… The quintessential rear sight on one of these things is the original HVA jaktdiopter, semi-Ghost-Ring type peep sight.





That is the very sight I'd like. In fact I was looking up such things last night and found several references, but of course no product!

On the "Swedish & Civilian" Gunboards forum, in a thread by "jnmullin" called "Just got a Husky" I discovered there was another similar one by Hellqvist, with protective ears either side, but still quite low profile:


I think I'd still prefer the first one, though.

Stuart

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gathumper
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #96765 - 15/02/08 08:38 AM

9.3,

Sorry, you all have probably already forgot this thread...my computer crashed and I just got it back. I would love to have a 9.3x57 hva that weights under 6lb. If the 7.75lb ones that SARCO has are model 146, where can I find a good model 46 like yours?

"Husky 96 small ring action 9.3mm - excellent bore not drilled, good condition"...is the description of the rifles and these actually don't list the weight. Does this sound like a model 46? I'm going to call them tomorrow and see if they have a weight for these.

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Edited by gathumper (15/02/08 09:06 AM)


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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: gathumper]
      #96768 - 15/02/08 09:15 AM

The ones at SARCO are both 96 action and 98 action. You are more likely to find a 96.
I, like 9ThreeXFifty7, have both action types. Both are very light compared to the typical US sporters.
The Euro guns are for real field carry and hunting. It seems that weight is kept to a minimum. Maybe because so many rifles in the US don't ever really make it past a shooting bench at the range or a rest in a blind. If you need to hoof it through real wilderness, fields and hills, the light weight is very appreciated. Even my three barrel drillings don't tip a 7 pound scale.
9.3X57 is a great hunter caliber.

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"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #96769 - 15/02/08 09:29 AM

I was just wondering cause they have the gun I listed the description for at $165 and the same discription basically for another at $299, they just call it a hi-power. is that the difference in the 46 and the 146? The one hi-power is the one that weights 7.75lbs.

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88MauSporter
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: gathumper]
      #96776 - 15/02/08 11:29 AM

I can't be sure. I have looked at them as well. I bought both of mine at Sarco a few years ago. I believe the hi-power is a later model. Mine have the older classic stocks. schnable short forends, slim but stocks and wrists. The 46 has a "bag" type rounded grip. Both are untapped for scopes.
Barrel band with forward swivels. Two leaf rear sights. The barrels are about 25 inches and nice sporter taper.
I believe the 46 (96 action) is the lighter of the two. I still want to find one in standard 8mm to go with them.

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9.3x57
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: gathumper]
      #96789 - 15/02/08 03:49 PM

Quote:

If the 7.75lb ones that SARCO has are model 146, where can I find a good model 46 like yours?

"Husky 96 small ring action 9.3mm - excellent bore not drilled, good condition"...is the description of the rifles and these actually don't list the weight. Does this sound like a model 46?




A couple things...

First, if it is a small ring military-type thumbslotted 96 {94} action and it is a factory Husqvarna sporter, it is the M46.

Second, based on my experience and in my opinion, a gun so described by SARCO may be an actual 46, or it might be a Vapen Depoten or STIGA "factory sporterized" 96 {not bad guns, actually}, or it might be a piece of a toenail clipping from Paris Hilton's butler's uncle. I HATE dealing with SARCO and in my opinion unless you can actually SEE and HANDLE the gun before buying, you are far better off giving your money to a Bombay beggar to invest in the New York State Lottery.

Having said that, you MIGHT score! I did with my 146 which was essentially brand new when I got it. But subsequent adventures with SARCO have inclined me toward never having anything to do with them ever again, or longer even.

If you are a real player, and love the thrill of race car driving without a seatbelt, skydiving without a reserve chute, or playing Russian Roullete with one round in the chamber of an automatic pistol, roll the dice on a shootin' iron from SARCO.

Of course, if the things cost $150-$200 how badly hurt can you get? Seriously, if you have the right Mississippi Riverboat Gambler perspective on things, you can have fun wheeling and dealing with Sorry Sarco, but if you want a case-closed, promises-kept, honest-to-goodness Model 46 with the warts described accurately, you are better off dealing with Allan's Armory in my opinion and in my experience. This is my opinion based on my experiences.

A Model 46 will probably weight somewhere around 6 1/2 lbs. I shaved the weight off mine from stock work. If you get a good one, I think you will really like it! Keep us posted as to how it all pans out!!

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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #96818 - 16/02/08 03:29 AM

Just weighted my 9.3x57 M46 Husky - without sling or ammo on the butt, 7lbs.3ounces. With sling and 5 rounds, 7 pounds 15 ounces. It seems as light as a feather to me as my normal hunting rifle for all day packing was 9 pounds and that wasn't a chore at all.
: The rear sight on ine is a single standing blade - no leafs. It had a "U" notch, that I filed out to a shallow "V", which I very much prefer for a hunting sight. The "U" notch was way too small to be taken seriously. Even in the shop, it was only useful if a sight were taken on a well lit wall, otherwise is wasn't visible.

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gathumper
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #96854 - 16/02/08 11:30 AM

Thank you,

So a small ring 96 husquvarna is a m46...that helps. The gun will be a scabbard gun on my horse and I think it will make an excellent hog/bear gun over hounds(mainly cause I prefer a bolt action over a lever). I would probably shorten the barrel to 20". 9.3, yours is a handsome rifle. I love the stock.

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9.3x57
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: gathumper]
      #96859 - 16/02/08 01:46 PM

Quote:

Thank you,

So a small ring 96 husquvarna is a m46...that helps. The gun will be a scabbard gun on my horse and I think it will make an excellent hog/bear gun over hounds(mainly cause I prefer a bolt action over a lever). I would probably shorten the barrel to 20". 9.3, yours is a handsome rifle. I love the stock.




gathumper:

Honestly, you couldn't pick a better rifle for your intentions. If you get a good one you will really like it!!!

It is common for these guns to need some TLC. Remember, they are HERE because some Swede didn't want it anymore. Some such gun control law over there places a limit on the number of guns that can be possessed, so if the limit is reached and one comes in, one has to go out.

My 46 has a scandalous history. It is a crossbreed; Model 46 6.5x55 stock mated with a Model 46 9.3x57 barrelled action.

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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #97049 - 19/02/08 04:47 PM

We have a source for commercial Husqvarnas. The Mod 98 9.3 x 57's are $395 and the 8 x 57 (98's) are $295. All very nice shape. I forget what the 96's run. I have a couple 96's in 9.3 x 62 I am restocking now. One even has claw mounts.

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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: Peterb]
      #97063 - 20/02/08 02:21 AM

Those prices are a bit high, but then they are still pretty good compared to new rifles.

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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #97117 - 20/02/08 05:09 PM

the 98´s system is built to suite the 9,3x62 perfectly - why bother with a reconstructed ´96 ?

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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: escard]
      #97144 - 21/02/08 12:43 AM

Quote:

the 98´s system is built to suite the 9,3x62 perfectly - why bother with a reconstructed ´96 ?




Escard: Alot of them are coming in to USA and Canada right now and are very light, handy rifles that even if punishing with heavy loads, will like lightning on almost all game that walks with a slightly more comfortable load like a 286 grain bullet at 2200 fps.

I don't think anyone is having custom x62's built on 96 actions or if they are they are rare birds. These imports to Canuckland and Yankeedom are Swede castaways and the fellows that are buying them like them alot from what I read.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #97179 - 21/02/08 07:16 AM

Oh - yeah - think I will have to buy a couple more and I really don't mind the M46 rather than the M146.(M96vsM98)
; The model 46 will allow seating bullets to overall lengths consistant with crimp grooves on the bullets that have them and normally for those that don't, even in 9.3x62 chambering.
; The M46's aren't converted military rifles, but sporters made from the ground up by Husky.
; If you want to push the envelope, then by all means buy the M146 with the large ring action.
; The water case capacity of 2, once fired, 9.3x62 Sako cases that I measured was 78gr. with a .454" shoulder.
: As you can see, it is virtually an Improved design case that goes way back to when Ackley was a kid.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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gathumper
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: DarylS]
      #98721 - 08/03/08 02:38 PM

9.3,

I want to ask your help, you seem to know quite abit about the husky m46 in 9.3x57. I've been picking at my wife that I want to spend my hunting bonus money on one and tonight she finally said alright(I've been smiling all night). If it doesn't change it should be $300 so I'm looking at sarco since there prices seem a little lower(I need dies, brass, etc. also). I was wondering if you would mind looking at their website and pointing me in the right direction.

http://www.sarcoinc.com/rifles.html

If you click on the husky blowout you can look there and scroll down as there are many listed just all spread out. I'm looking for one much like yours light, trim, unscoped 9.3x57. I plan on ordering over the phone b/c i'm going to pay the extra $25 for the hand select. I'm hoping for one with an excellent bore and uncracked stock. I'll probably spend a little more that 300 I believe, but it shouldn't me much more. anyways thanks.

Oh yeah do you know the difference in the hi-power b/c it says they weight 7.75lb, but it also says the 9.3 is a small ring so I wouldn't think it would weight that much. It is 299, but I would possibly go ahead and get it if you guys fill that is the better rifle. I would prefer a lighter rifle though(<6lb)

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9.3x57
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: gathumper]
      #98724 - 08/03/08 02:55 PM

GATHUMPER:

Unless I can visit SARCO and handle the rifle in question, I will not buy from them. It is possible that they have rifles that are in good shape, but my experience has been so poor that I would not trust their description even if it is detailed. IF you were able to make a trip to SARCO and look through the rifles in stock, or if you knew someone locally who could do this legwork for you, then the odds would be in your favor.

Allan's Armory has been in my experience a far better place to spend money. Allan typically describes his rifles in detail, and if you call and ask specific questions about a specific rifle, he can give you details in specific. Actually, the rifles are quite closely priced as well.

I ignore any description that may be given on the SARCO site.

Due to varying weights of stock wood, the guns can weigh a pound or so one way or the other. Trimming the factory stock will obviously lighten the weight also, and is the reason my 46 is as light as it is.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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gathumper
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98751 - 08/03/08 09:31 PM

9.3,

Thanks for the reply. I understand the stock weight will vary. I would shave it down if it comes in as sharp as you described earlier and I will be backing the barrel length down to somewhere between 20-22 inches, so that should help. Theer list at sarco has shortened, but they had some rifles described as excellent bores, no cracks, good condition for $165. I have read before that you didn't put much stock in there descriptions so I was going to call in and see if someone could actually put there hands on the rifle of that description and I had there word it was as listed. I would pay the extra $25 for hand select with the understanding that if it wasn't up to par i would not pay for the shipping and I would need a refund. I had read on another sight where a guy got a bad gun, he did say however that they were willing to send him another one with no shipping charges. Anyway i was expecting to pay them $200 or less and I didn't remember seeing any from allan's armory under $300, but I will definately look again if that's what I need to do. I would rather have to wait and buy the loading supplies than not have a gun worth shooting.

If I do go with sarco a rifle listed as a small ring 96, 9.3 should be a model 46 correct?

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9.3x57
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: gathumper]
      #98759 - 09/03/08 01:08 AM

gathumper:

If you decide to roll the dice with SARCO, maybe first get some form of guarantee that you can send the rifle back if it turns out to be a lemon or otherwise not to your liking.

It is NOT true that a "rifle listed as a small-ring 96, 9.3" is a Model 46.

It would be a 46 if it were a Husqvarna factory-built rifle in original condition, built as a commercial sporter. But some of the rifles that are coming in are Vapen Depoten or Stiga rebuilds/sporterized milsurp action rifles. Some of these are really nice rifles but obviously would not be HVA's and not model 46's.

I am trying my best to help you here, but I won't comment on a description on the SARCO site, or on a model designation or even on a picture shown on their site. I personally have no confidence that what they are showing or describing is in fact what you will receive in the mail. Yes, that is based purely on my experience with them. I have never dealt with a company like them. Problems can occur with any dealer of course, but in my opinion some seem intent on making it standard practice. I do not want to see you get burned and I wouldn't want to be part of it.

Best is to inspect the gun before buying, or at the very least get a guarantee that you can ship it back if it isn't what you wanted. You might do well.

Remember, these Swede castaways are here for a reason; they are just that, castaways. Swedish law essentally limits the number of firearms that may be owned. If that limit is reached and another gun desired to be purchased, one has to go, and it is a safe bet that the best gun in the rack isn't going to get shipped to Yankdom and Canuckville. The funny twist to all of this is that some of the rifles coming in are in excellent condition and many of those that have some warts nevertheless have excellent bores and are excellent rifles once some issue or two is resolved. The probability is that you will have some level of damage {cracked stock, etc} that will have to be addressed. That is the case regardless of the source from which you buy. My personal experience with Allan has been excellent, and he has an excellent reputation on the Swedish Commercial Arms site. Is is possible that you could get a lemon from him? Sure, but my experience has been predictably excellent with him.

As for SARCO, I feel a bit like I'm playing Russian Roulette with 5 chambers loaded.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #98763 - 09/03/08 01:47 AM

If you can get a 9.3x57 or 9.3x62 for under $275.00 in descent condition, that is a good price indeed. I would be skeptical on a mail-order for less than $300.00 - except for tradex, of course. My 9.3 was considerably better than I imagined from the descriptor they gave.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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gathumper
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Posts: 25
Loc: South GA
Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: DarylS]
      #98799 - 09/03/08 10:43 AM

Thanks for the words of wisdom, tough decision...I have about 2 wks until I get the check so I guess I'll give it some thought. I just looked at allan armory's website and they didn't seem to have too many 9.3's in the 96 action. I'll probably end up giving sarco a call and see about some kind of refund policy. Thanks again guys.

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Isn't that a daisy?


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DarylS
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Re: 98 & 96 actions for 9.3x62 [Re: gathumper]
      #98859 - 10/03/08 03:19 AM

tradeexcanada has several hundred - maybe several hundred more than that. Maybe Anthony got most of them.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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