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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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338User
.224 member


Reged: 08/02/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: Plains99]
      #96348 - 09/02/08 07:52 AM

I have a Ruger M77 in 338 Win Mag, and although I haven't used it against the NT buffs I plan to. I have worked up a load for the 300gn Woodleigh RNSN and FMJ. I use 71gn Reloader 22 for 2400fps. It doesn't match the 375 which pushes its 300gn bullet to 2600fps, and can use a 350gn bullet, but If it is your main rifle which you will occasionally use on Buff and mainly use on pigs, then it will do the job. I am going to do a bit more load development work, as I am sure I can get it up to 2500fps, and I want to try AR2213 and AR2217 as well. With proper bullet selection even the 300 magnums will kill buffs. However, none of these are really charge stoppers (even the 375) because they simply dont have the bullet frontal area or weight. For a charge stopper you really need to go up to 458cal & 500gn at 2300fps or more, but the Woodleigh 300gn FMJ in 338 cal certainly shows good penetration (tested on trees), and if you load a couple of them in the bottom of your magazine (and you can shoot straight) you will reach the brain or spine, and even a 7mm in the brain or spine will stop anything. For pigs I have had great success with the Hornady 225gn bullets (either spire point or SST, I haven't tried the interbond yet), and you can push them to 2800fps with 71gn of AR2209. Be sure to work up to those loads from at least 5gn below to make sure they are safe in your rifle.

Edited by 338User (09/02/08 08:05 AM)

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338User
.224 member


Reged: 08/02/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: 338User]
      #96354 - 09/02/08 08:49 AM

Aussie Hunter
Just re-reading your posts I realise you don't reload yet. If you are only looking at factory ammo you can get Winchester, Federal, Remington, PMC, Hornady and Norma 338 Win Mag Ammo in Austalia. The Winchester and Federal offerings are more readily available and in my experience the others cost a bit more for little or no extra benefit. So from Winchester and Federal's offerings for Buff you can choose from 3 all from Federal. Either P338B2 which is loaded with the 250gn Nosler Partion, P338K which is loaded with the 225gn Barnes TSX or P338T1 which is loaded with Speer's 225gn Trophy Bondeed Bear Claw. My personal choice out of those would be the Barnes TSX. This is a tough all copper hollow point bullet which is renowned for deep penetration. These are all premium ammo offerings which will cost (depending on store) around $50 to $60 per box. For pigs you can use the standard offerings such as Winchester Super-X with the 200gn power point bullet, or Federal Powershok with the 225gn Speer Hot Core bullet. I would personally pick the Federal load for pigs, but they are both around $37 per box (depending on store) and they will both do the job (the pigs won't tell the difference).

Edited by 338User (09/02/08 09:13 AM)

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: 338User]
      #96404 - 09/02/08 11:06 PM

I'm sure the Barnes TSX in 338 is a great bullet, BUT if these are the only factory loads available then I would have serious concerns about recommending the 338 for Buff over the .375. IMHO if you are going to go the .338 route you need to find someone to handload for you with (preferably) the 300 grain woodleighs. If you don't have alot of experience with either buffalo or harder recoiling rifles, and are only going to shoot buffalo occasionally, you could be asking for trouble - gaining experience the hard way There MUST be heavier factory loads available somewhere, even if they have to be specially ordered for your buff hunting trips. The range of Winchester and Federal loads available will be great for all your other hunting though and great for pigs. JMHO

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wombat
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Reged: 06/03/04
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Loc: Australia
Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: AussieHunter]
      #96467 - 10/02/08 05:09 PM

I have two 338's.I have seen a friend kill both a Cape buf and an Australian buf,with his 338.With 300 gn bullets I seriously doubt you could tell the difference.I killed my first water buf and cape buf with a 378 Weatherby and it did not seem to be much different to the 338.I feel all are on the light side for the foot stalker.The last three I killed were with a 500 nitro

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DarylS
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: Tatume]
      #96492 - 11/02/08 05:17 AM

Quote:

As one who owns and shoots both, I very much like both cartridges. Without getting into what one will do that the other won't (not much), I do have an observation to make. The perceived recoil of the 338 Win Mag is much more unpleasant than the 375 H&H Mag.

Take care, Tom



; Tom- I've noticed the same thing, but it depends greatly on the rifle and how it fits you. I recently re-stocked a .338 for a friend, using a Boyd-boys laminated stock. The original stock, a custon fiberglass thumbhole belted me harder than my .458 2" does with top-end loads. That .338 just about gave me a nose bleed from the concussion I received. The 'new' stock on the other hand, felt more like shooting a factory 7mmm Rem. Mag. - a bit more than a light '06 delivers, but not much.
; I've yet to shoot a .375 that feels anything but wonderful, from bolt guns to Ruger #1 - none of them belt me much, and are seemingly more comfortable to shoot than any of the .300 mags. I really like shooting the #1 in .375H&H with iron sights - very pleasant shooting and amazing accuracy for a 2 piece stock. Bouncing a steel ram at 300 meters offhand with open sights and 300gr. RN's is a blast.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
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Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: DarylS]
      #96503 - 11/02/08 06:44 AM

Hi Daryl,

Quote:

I've yet to shoot a .375 that feels anything but wonderful, from bolt guns to Ruger #1 - none of them belt me much, and are seemingly more comfortable to shoot than any of the .300 mags. I really like shooting the #1 in .375H&H with iron sights - very pleasant shooting and amazing accuracy for a 2 piece stock.



Absolutely! I have a three-shot group in front of me that I shot one day with my Ruger #1 375 H&H. It measures 3/8" and is just one lop-sided hole. It looked so pretty I just had to cut it out and save it. People ask me why I need a 375 to be that accurate and I tell them it makes a great squirrel rifle; kills, guts and skins them for me!

Take care, Tom

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allenday
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Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: AussieHunter]
      #96812 - 16/02/08 01:01 AM

For general use, I much prefer the 338 Win. Mag. to the 375 H&H. In my experience, for all sizes of African plainsgame the 338 Win. Mag. works every bit as well as the 375 H&H does, plus as a bonus, the rifle is lighter and handier to carry, as is the ammunition.

Likewise for NA elk, bears, etc., the 338 Win. Mag. puts stuff on the ground just as well as the 375 does, but the whole package is lighter to carry up the mountain, and it's easier on a horse as well.

That's WHY Winchester developed the 338 Win. Mag. in the first place: To approximate 375 H&H performance in a more ergonomic package, hence the moniker that was given to the original pre-64 Model 70 in 338 Win. Mag. when it was announced back in 1958 was the 'Alaskan'.

Build a 375 H&H in as light a rifle as a typical 338 Win. Mag. (and I've done it) shoot full-house 300 gr. loads, and you'll find that the recoil is a good deal heavier.

For buffalo, there's no question that the 375 H&H with good 300 gr. bullets is a better option, both legally and otherwise. But in my book, the 375 H&H is in many ways neither fish nor foul.

I'd rather shoot a 338 Win. Mag. for all of the world's big game short of buffalo, hippo, rhino and elephant, and I'd rather shoot a 416 or 458 of some sort for said buffalo, hippo, rhino and elephant.

So where's that really leave the 375 H&H? For me, most of the time my 375 stays home in the safe...........

AD

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AussieHunter
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Reged: 29/08/07
Posts: 47
Loc: Outback, NSW, Australia
Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: allenday]
      #96989 - 18/02/08 06:29 PM

Thanks AD, i could go with a .416 or .458, but i am only a small guy (75kg) and i just think the .416's and .458's would be to much for me to handle. I am not recoil shy but they have a LOT of recoil. What do you think?

cheers

AH

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allenday
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Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: AussieHunter]
      #96999 - 19/02/08 02:13 AM

AH, there's no question that the 416 Rigby or 416 Remington is a significant step up from the 375 H&H in terms of recoil, and that the 458 Win. Mag. or 458 Lott is a much bigger step yet. My favorite of that lot of cartridges is the 416 Rem. Mag. since it burns some 25% less powder than the Rigby with bullets of the same weight, yet it produces the same velocities, so it does kick less, and you can build a lighter, trimmer rifle in 416 Rem. Mag. that has greater magazine capacity as well.

Of course, to achieve those velocities, pressures are higher with the 416 Rem. Mag., but I've never had any pressure problems with that cartridge at all, even in 100 degree African heat, and according to our industry-standard American SAAMI specs, pressures are about the same as the 375 H&H and 458 Win. Mag.

But recoil tolerance is very much an individual thing, no matter the size of the individual (much of it's psychological, of that much I'm convinced) and I certainly wouldn't invest in any sort of 416 or 458 unless you can somehow get your hands on one and test it first to see if it's somehting you can shoot well, with confidence, and enjoy long-term.

If not, or if there's any lingering doubt or question, and especially with buffalo in mind, I'd go with the 375 H&H.......

AD

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Bramble
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Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: allenday]
      #97012 - 19/02/08 05:12 AM

AH

Being 75kg could be to your advantage, if you stand up, hang on and go with her then you will move and it is a pleasureable ride. Try and fight the recoil is when you get hurt.

Just like fucking a really fat girl.

Regards

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26535
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: allenday]
      #97014 - 19/02/08 05:18 AM

As to the .416's the Taylor is 'special' in my book. About the same recoil as a .375H&H and better on all larger species of game at reasonable ranges, ie: 300 yards and closer. Even with the older powders, it will do 2,350 to 2,420fps with 400gr. softs and solids and at safe levels for use in Africa.
: I don't really care if the breech pressure is less in a Rigby - 'Great Deal' for it and it's 100gr. + charge of very slow, bouncy pressure powder.
Hagel, Whooters or whomever else used it had no problems with the .338 necked up to hold .416 bullets back in the 60's, and certainly not today with even better 'Extreme' Hodgdon powders.
: The Rigby was developed to deliver those ballistics with cordite - a powder that developed incredible pressure spikes in hot weather and thus the low pressure of the Rigby. These safety guards caused by lousey powder are rather redundant today.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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