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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: fuhrmann]
      #96246 - 08/02/08 07:00 AM


fuhrmann

I agree.

What people seem to forget is the companies were in the business of building guns, either for stock or for customer orders.

If someone walked in with money and ordered a gun, regardless if it was out of date at that time, if they had the capabilities to do it they would, after all, it's still profit.

Plenty of people ordered Hammer guns (Shotguns and Rifles) after the Hammerless gun was perfected - Sidelock or Boxlock.


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fuhrmann
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Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 326
Loc: Switzerland
Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: 500Nitro]
      #96261 - 08/02/08 09:31 AM

Still the same.
Look here, for example: http://www.wutti-jagdwaffen.at/
btw, I love that style.
As long as he pays for, the customer is king and gets what he wants.

Fuhrmann


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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: gatsby]
      #97367 - 23/02/08 05:32 PM

Quote:

Marrakai,
The last Holland 10 paradox ( .805 vs .835 for an 8 ) was made in 1929 and was one of the last 2 or 3 paradox guns made untill recently. Eventhough the 10 had a nitro load in '29 the ballistics were the same as the 1890's 8 dram black powder load. It would be interesting to know who the gun was made for and where it went off to. I recall reading about one Hollad 8 single that was made for a family that had coffee and sugar holdings and they wanted the gun for protection against DG when checking the crops and used it for that well past the 30's.




Gatsby

Any chance you know what the 10 bore nitro loading was for that rifle?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: mickey]
      #97368 - 23/02/08 06:53 PM






Gatsby

Any chance you know what the 10 bore nitro loading was for that rifle?




Mickey,
The standard 10 bore nitro load was 55 grains of revolver cordite and 920 grain bullet. I can only assume that was the load for that particular gun. There were a few odd variations in ignition and loads being used by Holland in some of their last 12 bore pdxes, to what end I am not sure, so there is always a possibility the same might apply with the 10's.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



Edited by gatsby (24/02/08 02:47 AM)


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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: mickey]
      #97370 - 23/02/08 07:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Marrakai,
The last Holland 10 paradox ( .805 vs .835 for an 8 ) was made in 1929 and was one of the last 2 or 3 paradox guns made untill recently. Eventhough the 10 had a nitro load in '29 the ballistics were the same as the 1890's 8 dram black powder load. It would be interesting to know who the gun was made for and where it went off to. I recall reading about one Hollad 8 single that was made for a family that had coffee and sugar holdings and they wanted the gun for protection against DG when checking the crops and used it for that well past the 30's.




Gatsby

Any chance you know what the 10 bore nitro loading was for that rifle?




Mickey!!

Read the .775 Rigby artical from Gun Digest 1996....any 10 bore affectionado ought to read it twice a day..I still do.


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gatsby
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Reged: 05/09/05
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Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: rigbymauser]
      #97386 - 24/02/08 02:36 AM

RM,
I would love to read the article but where do you find a 1996 Gun Digest? Who authored the article?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: gatsby]
      #97392 - 24/02/08 03:54 AM

Doesn't everyone have issues 1968 through to 2007 in their libraries?
: Ha! - I have to admit, I stopped buying them in around '98 or so, but have the rest back to '70.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: gatsby]
      #97425 - 24/02/08 07:08 AM

Quote:

RM,
I would love to read the article but where do you find a 1996 Gun Digest? Who authored the article?




The artical is called: " Its a 775 Rigby". Its found on page 136. The author is Jim Dickson.
Its a 4 page artical that makes any bigborerifleman would drool.

You can find use GunDigests on www.abebooks.com

If everything goes wrong I woulf be happy to copy it for you or perhaps have someone to photoscan the artical and put it on here..

Edited by rigbymauser (21/03/08 07:35 PM)


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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: rigbymauser]
      #98276 - 04/03/08 05:58 AM

The germans and austrian often build unusual an "strange" guns when they attend their masterletter as an gunsmith. But they are still building hammer singles,drillings,fierlings and funflings today but probably an 10 bore would only be built after order. They have a realy long tradition building the stranges guns, just check out the Karl Hauptman guns att holts. And they are almost ordinary rifles in germany, that will say when you got the money to by from a gunsmith.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"


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DarylS
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Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: 450_366]
      #98284 - 04/03/08 08:31 AM

Quote:

The germans and austrian often build unusual an "strange" guns when they attend their masterletter as an gunsmith. But they are still building hammer singles,drillings,fierlings and funflings today but probably an 10 bore would only be built after order. They have a realy long tradition building the stranges guns, just check out the Karl Hauptman guns att holts. And they are almost ordinary rifles in germany, that will say when you got the money to by from a gunsmith.



'
; Andreas - this was the point of my second post.

Quote:


9.3x57- I think this rifle is the result of someone displaying their workmanship alone - nothing more. It was not built for a specific animal at that stage of the game, in 1925, I mean. It is a "Look what I built" type of gun. it is a masterpiece - workmanship thought dead after 1910 - but still alive. I love it.






--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: DarylS]
      #98286 - 04/03/08 08:34 AM

Andreas and Daryl;

Thanks for the theories.

I'm very inclined to agree with the both of you.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
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Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: DarylS]
      #98437 - 06/03/08 01:25 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The germans and austrian often build unusual an "strange" guns when they attend their masterletter as an gunsmith. But they are still building hammer singles,drillings,fierlings and funflings today but probably an 10 bore would only be built after order. They have a realy long tradition building the stranges guns, just check out the Karl Hauptman guns att holts. And they are almost ordinary rifles in germany, that will say when you got the money to by from a gunsmith.



'
; Andreas - this was the point of my second post.

Quote:


9.3x57- I think this rifle is the result of someone displaying their workmanship alone - nothing more. It was not built for a specific animal at that stage of the game, in 1925, I mean. It is a "Look what I built" type of gun. it is a masterpiece - workmanship thought dead after 1910 - but still alive. I love it.









Sorry, will blame my bad english.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"


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fuhrmann
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Reged: 04/01/05
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Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: 450_366]
      #98447 - 06/03/08 03:18 AM

Quote:

The germans and austrian often build unusual an "strange" guns when they attend their masterletter as an gunsmith. But they are still building hammer singles,drillings,fierlings and funflings today but probably an 10 bore would only be built after order. They have a realy long tradition building the stranges guns, just check out the Karl Hauptman guns att holts. And they are almost ordinary rifles in germany, that will say when you got the money to by from a gunsmith.




Even today great gunsmiths in Austria make a living by building "oldfashioned" guns.
But they are often chambered for the most modern cartridges!
That's what the wealthy customer wants.
So, a masterpiece or an exhibition piece will probably not be done in an oldfashioned or obsolete caliber.

Fuhrmann


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450_366
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Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: fuhrmann]
      #98455 - 06/03/08 05:24 AM






Even today great gunsmiths in Austria make a living by building "oldfashioned" guns.
But they are often chambered for the most modern cartridges!
That's what the wealthy customer wants.
So, a masterpiece or an exhibition piece will probably not be done in an oldfashioned or obsolete caliber.

Fuhrmann




I would if i was wealthy.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
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Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: 450_366]
      #98462 - 06/03/08 06:58 AM

My take on this, is that in 1925, the 8 bore wasn't that far out of the realm of 'modern'. Such a large gun gives a much more broad canvas to show one's expertise. the same size gun would have been laughed at, if in a typical 'modern' round of the day(1925).
: I do not believe this gun was made for any particular customer - merely 'look what I did' - or 'THIS is what I can do'!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: nice vintage 8 bore [Re: 500grains]
      #99853 - 21/03/08 11:02 AM

Surprised this hasn't moved yet.

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3518
Loc: Colorado
Re: nice vintage 8 bore [Re: ]
      #99863 - 21/03/08 12:42 PM

I've seen UL 8 bore single shotguns for sale at what seem reasonable prices. How about rebarreling to a rifle? You could end up with a gun very similar to this with the original shotty barrel in reserve.
http://www.micksguns.com/antique%20guns.htm
The Chas H. Maleham would be just the ticket.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

Edited by Huvius (21/03/08 12:52 PM)


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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
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Re: nice vintage 8 bore [Re: Huvius]
      #99865 - 21/03/08 01:01 PM

Just noticed Mick has an H&H double paradox too! 6000GBP which is just a couple ticks more than the J. Just on this thread.
Don't know what he means by "smoothbore paradox" though.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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gatsby
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Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: mickey]
      #99877 - 21/03/08 05:05 PM






Gatsby

Any chance you know what the 10 bore nitro loading was for that rifle?



Mickey
Re: The last 10 paradox: Futher research would indicate that paradox never left the factory with the rifled choke barrels.

Huvius
Re: Smooth bore paradox: A paradox with the choke rifling removed or a round ball gun and not a paradox at all, probably the former

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



Edited by gatsby (21/03/08 05:08 PM)


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Checkman
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Reged: 15/03/08
Posts: 256
Loc: Idaho
Re: nice vintage 8 bore; INTENDED USE [Re: fuhrmann]
      #100073 - 23/03/08 03:03 PM

Now that is a powerful firearm.

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