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Fladude
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Reged: 21/11/07
Posts: 15
Loc: florida
Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles
      #92802 - 28/12/07 11:44 AM

I am thinking of buying a Searcy sometimes this year. I posted once before about the generic quality of Searcy rifles. I had some people telling me to buy other brands, but I like the fact that they are all American.

I do have some questions though. I am looking at .500 nitro. What's the difference between a PH, a Classic and a Deluxe? If it's just some engraving then that saves me 6k I suppose.

Also, although it's out of my price league, what's the difference between Box lock and Side lock? I really don't have a clue.

I am not a nub to shooting, and recoil does not bother me. I can shoot 12 guage slugs all day with a grin on my face. But I don't know much about these type of rifles. Please pardon my ignorance.

Thank you- DC

Edited by Fladude (28/12/07 11:45 AM)


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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
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Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: Fladude]
      #92893 - 29/12/07 01:17 PM

Fladude, there are no ignorant questions except those questions not asked! One should never venture into the double rifle world without asking a lot of questions. Of course you will have to seperate the wheat from the chaff, and do a little search of the different builder's websites!

Butch Searcy builds a very good double rifle, but he will tell you himself he is not trying to compete with the likes of H&H, or Purdy. However, if you want a solid double rifle that is as accurate as any you can buy, then he makes that. His Classic, IMO, is one of the nicest double rifles for the price you can buy, but is getting close to the Heym in price. There are several off the shelf doubles you can buy cheaper than the Searcy, but they are not better and in many ways, are far inferior to Btch's rifles. If you want a working double rifle than the PH model is the way to go. It will shoot right along with anyone's double, and is money well spent.

There are many who run down Butch's rifles,and the other off the shelf rifles as well, but that is mostly by folks who can't compete with the price points of those rifles, and have a need to downgrade the compition to make themselves look better, nothing more.

You will hear the same nonsense about Merkel, Chapuis, and others, but that is part of the chaff I was talking about.

Actually, a box lock is a better rifle in most cases than a side lock, and is less prone to stock breakage, because less wood is removed from the critical area of the stock where it meets the action.

First, you need to handle as many different doubles as you can, to find the ones that fit you, because that is the key to the natural feel that is a must with a double rifle. Once you find a few that fit the best, then start asking questions limited to the ones that fit you. This is, as it should be, and time consuming undertaking. If you find an older double that fits you properly, and you are considering it, ask for some one who lives close enough, so they can help you personally to judge the quality of the piece. It is very easy to get taken with some of the older stuff, and it has always been my reccomendation that a man new to double rifles should buy NEW!

It would take a book to tell you everything you NEED to know, in regard to double rifles, but hang in there, you have come to the right place, and that's a start in the right dirrection!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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Fladude
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Reged: 21/11/07
Posts: 15
Loc: florida
Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #92900 - 29/12/07 04:24 PM

THANK YOU for your RESPONSE!!!!!

To be honest, I was considering either a Searcy or Heym. I was not seriously considering a low budget as I assume that one get's what they pay for. The higher dollar rifles like H&H are out of my price range. I did not receive any emails putting down Searcy but one or two did recommend Heym over Searcy. I don't really want a rifle to hang on the wall, but rather one to shoot. My other favorite rifles are all Kalashnikovs so that says a lot about what I like.

thanks- Fladude.


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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: Fladude]
      #92918 - 30/12/07 12:10 AM

Double rifles are unique firearms.You have come to the right website. Expert input regarding Doubles is here in abundance(but not necessarily from me!).

Use the search function here and review the various gunmakers of Doubles. That will give you hours of enjoyment and much info to process.

Welcome!! Enjoy!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: Fladude]
      #93005 - 31/12/07 04:38 AM

If I was you, I would go to the Dallas Safari Club convention or the SCI show in Reno--you can handle them all..I went again last year and found a good deal on a refurbished Westley..shoots great and handles awesome...

I would NEVER buy a double without first handling it or having the opportunity to return it for a full refund after I had a chance to look at it..too much money to take someones word for it..

Chris from Heym might be someone to contact--he "might" send you one for your review and hopefully purchase...

I agree with your caliber selection..the 500 is an awesome round--in fact I am snooping around for one myself--thinking I might get one of those mentioned in this post to travel with..my thinking is if it got damaged or lost it could easily be replaced -where as the old english doubles are not that readily available...

Good Luck

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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fivebigbores
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Reged: 20/07/07
Posts: 8
Loc: Salt Lake City Utah
Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: Ripp]
      #93047 - 31/12/07 11:43 AM

I have a 470 made by searcy took it to Africa in sep of 06 killed a buffalo with it came home bought a 500 from searcy shot it a little it kicks more than a 470 now searcy is making me a .577 w a set of 375 flange barrels [scoped ] all 3 are basic working rifles but you will be pleased with the quality and hand work of the rifles and for simple rifles they are quite fancy stand there own in any hunting camp on any continent [did I mention that they are well regulated ] it is a real pisser to buy a $15,000 + rifle and have one barrel shoot one way and the other barrel shoot another place I promote both the rifle and the man

frank

if any of you guys get to go to reno you can handle mine Butch will be showing it there then

Edited by fivebigbores (31/12/07 11:53 AM)


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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: fivebigbores]
      #93050 - 31/12/07 12:30 PM

Quote:

I have a 470 made by searcy took it to Africa in sep of 06 killed a buffalo with it came home bought a 500 from searcy shot it a little it kicks more than a 470 now searcy is making me a .577 w a set of 375 flange barrels [scoped ] all 3 are basic working rifles but you will be pleased with the quality and hand work of the rifles and for simple rifles they are quite fancy stand there own in any hunting camp on any continent [did I mention that they are well regulated ] it is a real pisser to buy a $15,000 + rifle and have one barrel shoot one way and the other barrel shoot another place I promote both the rifle and the man

frank

if any of you guys get to go to reno you can handle mine Butch will be showing it there then




Frank

How much will the 375 weigh? Seems like it will be a bit heavy on the 577 frame.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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Bill_Cooley
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Reged: 14/12/06
Posts: 197
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: Fladude]
      #93051 - 31/12/07 01:36 PM


Fladude
You are getting some great advise. Now let me through in my 2 cents worth.
I would definitely make the SCI show or I would go to the Dallas Safari Club show in about 2 weeks Or both. You will get the chance to see and handle many double rifles and talk to some experienced people.
I would try to find someone who will let you shoot a 470 and a 500 so you will have that first hand experience. I personally think the 470 would be a better choice because of resale, availability of loaded factory ammo cheaper cases and a wider selection in bullets if you reload. While recoil is a subjective thing I feel the 500 has a significant step up in recoil over the 470. Think 470= light 12 with slugs 500 = light 12 both barrels with slugs same time. Perhaps I am exaggerating but not much.
The good thing about buying a “NEW” rifle is you can have the stock fitted to you. This helps with the recoil.
Hope this helps
Bill


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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: Bill_Cooley]
      #93052 - 31/12/07 02:01 PM

Aw common now!! I shoot a 500 NE and its not THAT BAD--

Shooting it is an eye opener though--

On paper it is a bit of a beast with more recoil velocity and about 28% more recoil energy to deal with.What do you get?? 14% more cross sectional area and about 14% more momentum delivered to the target.

Enough to make a difference ?

You decide!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: Fladude]
      #93057 - 31/12/07 03:07 PM

Fladude:

In the price range of the DRs you mentioned, I'd recommend the Heym first, followed by Chapuis and Merkel. If you can get comfortable with the safety system, and they way they handle, the Krieghoff is a decent quality gun. In terms of overall quality, I think the last three offer quality commensurate with price, while the Heym offers better build quality than the price suggests. For the build quality offered, I view the Searcy as overpriced and don't recommend it.

Regarding your question about the actions types, the boxlock is a "body action" gun with it's lockwork contained within the action body, or "box". The lockwork of the sidelock is attached to the lockplates behind the bar and detonating. There are two types of sidelock, bar action and back action, so called because of the location of the mainspring. The mainsprings of the bar action lie in the bar of the action, in front of the lockwork, while those of the back action are attached to the lockplates, and lie behind the lockwork. The back action has long been generally preferred for double rifles because the location of the mainsprings allow leaving more metal in the action bar under the detonating, making it theoretically stronger for the higher pressure double rifle application. However, plenty of best quality sidelock double rifles have been built on bar actions, Purdey's and the British Rigby's come immediately to mind. Hard service "working" DRs tend to be boxlocks, while so called "best" guns tend to be sidelocks, but there are exceptions to both.

Don't attempt the sidelock route on a budget. The good ones have never been "affordable". A top quality boxlock is preferable to a cheap sidelock that's available at the same price.


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Fladude
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Reged: 21/11/07
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Loc: florida
Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #93164 - 01/01/08 11:20 PM

Thank you all for the advice. I will absolutely make certain to handle both a Searcy and a Heym .500 Nitro before making a purchase. Those seem to be the two which I am interested in. I won't be making the Dallas show, but I will make certain to handle the rifles prior to buying. You guys have provided a plethora of information and I thank you.

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BigFiveJack
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Reged: 25/12/05
Posts: 256
Loc: Half hour North of Tampa Bay F...
Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: Fladude]
      #95169 - 25/01/08 07:06 PM

Go meet with guys shooting doubles and join the fun. That's

what I did and it's been great each time. In the end I

looked and waited nearly two years, then opted for a true

vintage SxS English built 450/400 boxlock. The English

rifles are magical for me, there's so much build quality

there, and character, and history, and legend...

My rifle was bought at a figure within your budget for sure.

--------------------
Cordially,
Jack

NRA Endowment Member
DRSS Member


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fivebigbores
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Reged: 20/07/07
Posts: 8
Loc: Salt Lake City Utah
Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: BigFiveJack]
      #108835 - 03/07/08 02:16 PM

mic you were right about the .375 issue the .577 frame is to heavy so just this month I ordered a under lever in the 450-400 little more money but a good all round light double

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bigdog
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Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: fivebigbores]
      #108844 - 03/07/08 03:54 PM

400 nitro express, I have to disagree with you on the Searcy, I have two of them and think they both handle just fine.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad


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Nakihunter
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: bigdog]
      #108851 - 03/07/08 07:31 PM

My wallet & bank account are "hungry"! But my heart and my head say that I will still buy a hunting double "soon"! ....And.... Yes, I turned 52 just 2 days ago. I still feel 35 to 40.

1. Yes $15k is the max that I can muster.
2. No, I am not a big fan of the German DR profile & balance (not that I know much about them). I have always loved the English guns' balance since I was about 16 years old.
3. THE BIG QUESTION - What is the advise on buying a second hand Searcy for about $10k?

Are the 5 year old Searcys as good as the current ones?
Are the 10 year old Searcys as good?

I emailed them with questions about warranty on second had guns (like Leupold) and about any paid service on fitting me with second hand guns - but no reply for 2 weeks.

By the way - my heart loves the Searcys - almost like the Webleys, Mantons, Holiss, Wilkes etc.

My head is a bit screwed up with all this information & "lust".

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.


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gei
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Reged: 19/03/06
Posts: 23
Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: Nakihunter]
      #109283 - 09/07/08 04:15 AM

I saw some of the older Searcy rifles, they were lacking when compared to Heym. Have not seen the new. I have new 450/400 Heym, just love it.

I had a 470 Merkel that was the most accurate DR i have ever seen.


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BigFiveJack
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Reged: 25/12/05
Posts: 256
Loc: Half hour North of Tampa Bay F...
Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: gei]
      #109660 - 13/07/08 09:48 AM

Another option is an English styled German made rifle.
www.heirloomarmes.com Dale Nygaard is your man for these.
The maker is www.tjf-jagdwaffen.de - there IS an English
language version of their site.

--------------------
Cordially,
Jack

NRA Endowment Member
DRSS Member


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500grains
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Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: Fladude]
      #109675 - 13/07/08 06:21 PM

Quote:

What's the difference between a PH, a Classic and a Deluxe?




All of the Searcy boxlocks are made on the same action, using the same barrel structure. It is my understanding that the (plainer) PH model is no longer made. The Classic is more finely finished than the PH model was and the Deluxe is supposed to be another step up in finish. A lot of people are really happy with the look of the Deluxe.


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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
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Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: Nakihunter]
      #109882 - 17/07/08 02:41 AM

Quote:

3. THE BIG QUESTION - What is the advise on buying a second hand Searcy for about $10k?

Are the 5 year old Searcys as good as the current ones?
Are the 10 year old Searcys as good?




To give Searcy their due, their doubles have improved dramatically over the years, and I certainly like their new rifles far better than I did the old. According to Searcy, they're not the same.

A friend owns two Searcy .470s, one of them an earlier gun, but post-BSS. At our DRSS event in June, 2007, he noticed two cracks developing in it's stock head and returned it to Searcy for repair. It wasn't returned for any functional problems, but came back with new lockwork. When he asked why this was done, he was told that even though he had had no problems, functional issues could eventually develop with the older design, so the action was rebuilt with that of an updated design. I handled and shot the gun at our DRSS event last month. It now has serious functional issues, and has been returned again for correction. Not my gun, and I didn't speak to Searcy directly.

We shoot a wide variety of double rifles at our biannual Double Rifle Shooter's Society events - from the most basic entry level to British bests. In my view, the new Heym PH model is head and shoulders above the other new-built double rifles in this price range.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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BigFiveJack
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Reged: 25/12/05
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Re: Some nub questions on Searcy Doubles [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #109908 - 17/07/08 02:53 PM

Quote:

By: 400 NitroExpress

In my view, the new Heym PH model
is head and shoulders above the other
new-built double rifles in this price range.



This man's "view" is highly
regarded by many here and
elsewhere. You are well served
to consider it seriously.

--------------------
Cordially,
Jack

NRA Endowment Member
DRSS Member


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