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Charles
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Loc: Texas
Terry Wieland on the M96 mauser
      #92142 - 20/12/07 11:35 AM

Well, I am new here. I read for a while and then joined. I am impressed with the knowledge that I see on this site. I have noticed a lot of interest in the M96 and questions regarding its strength. Recently I read Dangerous Game Rifles and notice that Wieland had some interesting things to say. Basically he took a Carl Gustav 96 and a 1917 Enfield. He wanted to compare the strength of the Swede with 2 lugs to the 1917 which has 3 lugs.. He had 3 goals: 1-He knew it was possible for any fool to stuff a case full of bullseye and blow it up. His goal was to determine if it was possible for a handloader using a legitimate powder to accidently blow up the rifle. 2- To see how the progressive effects of higher pressure manifested themselves as the PSI mounted into the stratosphere.3-To compare performance of the supposedly weaker Swede w/o 3rd lug, compared to the Enfield which had one. His conclusion...ultimately both were destroyed, the Swede in a slightly more spectacular manner than the Enfield. Both held on far beyond his expectations. He stated that as he neared the end of the test, both guns had to have their bolts opened up with a hammer. In fact, he was afraid that the bolts would seize solid before the actions let go. Finally the Swede blew a one foot piece of kindling off the side of the stock, the action bulged and the extractor tried to make its escape....but the lugs held like granite. He said...that's typical of Mauser actions when confronted with high pressure, whether as a result of an imprudent load or the effects of the African sun. Instead of going to pieces, the lugs seize in place like a rottweilers teeth.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Re: Terry Wieland on the M96 mauser [Re: Charles]
      #92170 - 20/12/07 02:42 PM

Welcome aboard...

I read that same book when it first come out.. it is very informative however I don't agree with everything he has stated.. most of all his take on the NEW Rigby gun company--

He is a very knowledgeable writer and I really enjoy his writings and YES the test you described was very interesting. FYI--He also has an article every month in RIFLE SHOOTER MAGAZINE..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
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Re: Terry Wieland on the M96 mauser [Re: Ripp]
      #92195 - 20/12/07 10:34 PM

Quote:

very informative however I don't agree with everything he has stated.. most of all his take on the NEW Rigby gun company--



I agree - otherwise a very useful and informative book...

Just an observation - when national treasures (i.e. works of art, etc) are sold, the government has to approve an export license to safeguard the national heritage. What a shame that they didn't/couldn't step in this time... Seems Terry Wieland is one of the few who seem happy with the California Rigby Co (other than Craig Boddington, who has gone strangely quiet on the subject recently!).


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Ripp
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Re: Terry Wieland on the M96 mauser [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #92216 - 21/12/07 12:08 AM

At the last SCI show--there were rumblings that the NEW Rigby Co was flirting with bankruptcy--then I heard there was a large cash infusion from an outside source--so not sure what is happening there but at 30,000 --not worth it--IMHO

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Terry Wieland on the M96 mauser [Re: Ripp]
      #92226 - 21/12/07 12:51 AM

Just like with incumbent politicians, IMO, put a few years under the boots of a well-known gunwriter and almost all lose their connection to the needs, interests and spending power of the rank and file of their readers {"constituents"}. This is particularly the case today, with the amounts of money and new products that pour out from manufacturers. I guess it is an occupational hazard.

IMO, Craig Boddington and Terry Wieland vie for first place as the The World's Most Boring Gunwriters ever to ink a page, but in general, I've been impressed with Boddington's vast knowledge on myriad non-technical hunting and gun-related subjects and his resistance to dive into hyperbole to sell a piece. Wieland hasn't been around as long, but he seems generally informed on most subjects, even if he succeeds in making me reach for a soft pillow in only a page. He generally also avoids hyperbole which I am beginning to believe is an executive order from all modern editor's.

Not so with the old timers, and that made for fun AND informative reading. It was hyperbole that added character and diversity to the past generation of writers with Keith and Askins topping the list there.

But the old timers were a good read, where Boddington just puts me into almost immediate REM sleep. Boddington's stuff reads like an entry from the Encyclopedia Britannica WITHOUT the technical detail. He is an insomniac's dream.

As for Wieland, I've read a bunch of his stuff, and the book mentioned above, and there is something about his writing style that does not catch my interest though he, too, appears generally competent. Not even sure how to put it. He seems to have an almost giggly zeal for some topics but he never seems to pass that zeal on to me. I think it is a writing style I just don't connect with, mostly or maybe it is stuff like the inane '96 report that makes me leave my pennies in my pocket when faced with the option of buying his stuff.

The report about the 96 Mauser is really poor in my opinion. Blowing up {a term he doesn't even describe in any detail at all} two actions without stating ANY of the technical details {he doesn't even describe what actually "blew up"} and then because the bolt lugs didn't let go proclaiming the gun action "strong" is stupid. Anybody familiar with the 96 action at all knows it is a "strong" action. "Safe" and "strong" are terms that must be described and applied to action types. The thing that really mystified me was that we know that the very two action types that he used have functional safety issues that are dramatically impacted by factory of manufacture, a fact that never mentions and from reading the passage leads me to believe he maybe didn't even know! There are differences between HVA and CG 96's, and differences between Win, Rem and Rem/Eddy '17's that have to be addressed in any strength discussion. What was he thinking, or wasn't he...?

He makes no mention of gas deflection which is the main bug bear of the '96 action. I don't want to rant on and on about that "test" or whatever it was, but it was really a worthless endeavor. This discussion has been worked over at length on the Swedish Commercial Arms Forum with very interesting input from many sources and is very interesting, but Wieland's efforts added absolutely nothing of value to the available information on the subject.

I am admittedly not particularly knowledgeable about the broad range of DG rifles, especially doubles. So when a gunwriter does such a poor job of writing up a subject I know a bit about, I am left wondering what to believe of his writing about the subjects I know little about.

What is the assessment of Wieland by you DG Rifle Nuts?



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
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Re: Terry Wieland on the M96 mauser [Re: 9.3x57]
      #92236 - 21/12/07 02:08 AM

You definitely have a point, although I think that the book still has a certain value and is worth reading. I wouldn't call it a definitive work by any stretch, but I read it in the context of what I already knew and had read before, and as such thought it provided a good overview for newcomers and didn't have any problem reading it cover to cover. I much prefer Gregor Woods "Rifles for Africa", but then I had been waiting for Woods to produce a book for years, as I had very much enjoyed his articles in Magnum. I always tell people to read this and Taylor. I didn't really take much away from Boddington's American or Safari rifle books.

Wieland's best book IMHO is Search for the Spiral Horn (I haven't read Boddington's version to compare). I thought that it was thoroughly researched and very well written (the use of language was first class). Wieland does also produce some very good articles, such as the DG bullet test and the safari rifle battery, which are reworked in the DG rifle book. However, it is a very big subject and inevitably there are areas that were only lightly covered (especially the coverage of M98 variants, notably the Heym Express). As such it is a great general introduction, but perhaps not a book for experts, but its a bit harsh to say that it sends you to sleep (I did enjoy it)! Unfortunately, I felt that in the end, the book only had 2 main conclusions - that his NEW Rigby 500NE is the best DR around and that in bolt rifles he likes the Mauser 98 - one that I disagree with and another that isn't exactly earthy shattering! I agree that the M96 destruction test wasn't scientific and could have been covered in more detail. I also didn't really see the point (given that he already states that the M98 is the definitive DG bolt action) and would have preferred a test between the M98 and the Winchester pre-64 M70 actions, for example, or even old and new M98 actions.

I did enjoy Boddington's Buffalo book, but it does feel like a re-working of Doctari's Nyati (much as his Perfect Shot NA steals Doctari's Perfect Shot Africa idea) and overall, Doctari's book Africa's Most Dangerous is arguably better. I think that Boddington has become rather repetitive and doesn't have anything new to say any more. He seems to write to a formula (largely because he writes too many articles), although he does occasionally still manage to pull interesting and well written articles out of the bag - such as the one on the crocodile in Zimbabwe with the .375 in Rifle Shooter, but then he went and re-hashed it a few times and it lost its edge. Nevertheless, I still admire the guy and would rather read his articles than watch the crap that passes for TV most days!

I think that the biggest problem is that magazine editors feel that they cannot produce an issue without the obligatory article by Boddington, Wieland or others. When they have nothing to say, they should find someone else who does.

Edited by JabaliHunter (21/12/07 07:12 AM)


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Ripp
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Re: Terry Wieland on the M96 mauser [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #92247 - 21/12/07 04:00 AM

Ironically enough--I just send a memo to RifleShooter magazine --Jan-08 issue--as there was an article in there that had actually been printed with the same photo in Shooting Times in June of 2005--

I asked them if this was that boring they felt the need to republish articles from 2 years ago--stated if that was all the crativity their writers had they should choose new ones..

Thx
Art

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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JabaliHunter
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Re: Terry Wieland on the M96 mauser [Re: Ripp]
      #93189 - 02/01/08 04:01 AM

Well, I took the opportunity to re-read Wielands īdangerous game riflesī over Christmas. Perhaps my previous comments were a bit harsh - it is well researched and well written. Yes there are some omissions that I would have liked to have see included in more detail, but overall it is well worth reading and a book that everyone could take something away from. In alot of ways it is a compilation and expansion of many of his better magazine articles on the subject.

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Ripp
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Re: Terry Wieland on the M96 mauser [Re: 9.3x57]
      #93213 - 02/01/08 12:02 PM

Quote:


IMO, Craig Boddington and Terry Wieland vie for first place as the The World's Most Boring Gunwriters ever to ink a page, but in general, I've been impressed with Boddington's vast knowledge on myriad non-technical hunting and gun-related subjects and his resistance to dive into hyperbole to sell a piece. Wieland hasn't been around as long, but he seems generally informed on most subjects, even if he succeeds in making me reach for a soft pillow in only a page. He generally also avoids hyperbole which I am beginning to believe is an executive order from all modern editor's.

But the old timers were a good read, where Boddington just puts me into almost immediate REM sleep. Boddington's stuff reads like an entry from the Encyclopedia Britannica WITHOUT the technical detail. He is an insomniac's dream.

What is the assessment of Wieland by you DG Rifle Nuts?








You and I agree and a myriad of topics however his is not one of them...I enjoy reading Boddington as much as any writer out there.before or after...and am not ashamed to state so. I find his work very informative and informational, albeit a bit on the paid for side by Ruger, Aimpoint and Swarovski.

The guy has been on something like 83 Safari's--who in our time can come even close to that type of experience--what writer in the past 100 years for that matter..

No matter what you think of his writings, you have to respect his knowledge and wealth of information..

As to Wielands assessment of the doubles---IMHO, doubles are like woman, each of us have different tastes, likes and dislikes...

I did not agree with this assessment of the NEW Rigby Co..and as stated by several on this site.. this is not a highly respected double maker--he has severely cheapened the Rigby name and it will never be what it once was unless someone else takes over and does it the way it was done 100 years ago.. will that happen? I doubt it..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
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Re: Terry Wieland on the M96 mauser [Re: Ripp]
      #93269 - 03/01/08 04:04 AM

Quote:

albeit a bit on the paid for side by Ruger, Aimpoint and Swarovski.



Not to mention Kimber


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9.3x57
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Re: Terry Wieland on the M96 mauser [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #93282 - 03/01/08 05:51 AM

RIPP:

I do not mean to disparage Boddington's knowledge or experience. As you say and as I alluded to/admitted in my post, Boddington's EXPERIENCE is vast, and his knowledge of tourist hunting and hunting in general has got to be more extensive than any gunwriter ever to put pen to paper since WW2.

I have no argument with his knowledge or ability to put the material into legible prose. And like a Baedeker book for the travelling tourist, anybody intending to go on a hunt involving a critter he's hunted would do well to read anything he has to say about it first.

It is his writing style that totally leaves me blank. For entertainment and enjoyment, give me Elmer or Charlie Askins or Bill Jordan or even Jack O'Connor {saying something since he wasn't too creative either and has in common with Boddington an English major...} or Skelton or Lott or even Aagaard, who had an enjoyable wit and ability IMO to add personality to his writing.

You have me thinking though. For me, maybe it IS more. Another aspect of hunting writers that has changed a little over the years is the emphasis today on guided hunting versus self-planned and executed hunting. I have never been too interested in guided hunts. I admit it. It might be heresy to state it, but honestly, I'd far rather take a spike bull elk I hunted on my own than a 6x6 somebody held my hand and walked me into. That is a personal thing entirely, because I suspect most fellows would disagree with me or even laugh at the statement. We shoot for meat and enjoyment and comradery and the use of our own ground or ground we intimately know or explore ourselves. Nothing compares to that IMO.

IMO, Boddington is the world's best writer on the hunting industry and as such he does a splendid job. But to me he is not the best writer about all hunting. Others, like old Francis Sell take the cake for me.

To me, Boddington reads like what I might expect to appear in print were somebody to hand a pen to the Cigar Store Indian.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Re: Terry Wieland on the M96 mauser [Re: 9.3x57]
      #93315 - 03/01/08 01:16 PM

Quote:

RIPP:

You have me thinking though. For me, maybe it IS more. Another aspect of hunting writers that has changed a little over the years is the emphasis today on guided hunting versus self-planned and executed hunting. I have never been too interested in guided hunts. I admit it. It might be heresy to state it, but honestly, I'd far rather take a spike bull elk I hunted on my own than a 6x6 somebody held my hand and walked me into. That is a personal thing entirely, because I suspect most fellows would disagree with me or even laugh at the statement. We shoot for meat and enjoyment and comradery and the use of our own ground or ground we intimately know or explore ourselves. Nothing compares to that IMO.

IMO, Boddington is the world's best writer on the hunting industry and as such he does a splendid job. But to me he is not the best writer about all hunting. Others, like old Francis Sell take the cake for me.

To me, Boddington reads like what I might expect to appear in print were somebody to hand a pen to the Cigar Store Indian.





**

Agree with your statements regarding hunting on your own...I too much rather hunt on my own which is why I do exactely that whether in Alaska, Montana or wherever provided it is legal and I have access...however there are just some things you can't do on your own--hunting Dall sheep or Brown Bear in Alaska as one example... I plan to go after a Dall in the next few years and yes I will have to flip the bill for a guide--but honestly, it is also fun to share camp with those guys and pick up on their experiences they have had...

Africa is another example--one needs a PH -but some of the people I have met on different hunts have become true friends-- and that is worth the price of admission..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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AdamTayler
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Re: Terry Wieland on the M96 mauser [Re: 9.3x57]
      #93371 - 04/01/08 04:08 AM

Quote:


I have never been too interested in guided hunts. I admit it. It might be heresy to state it, but honestly, I'd far rather take a spike bull elk I hunted on my own than a 6x6 somebody held my hand and walked me into. That is a personal thing entirely, because I suspect most fellows would disagree with me or even laugh at the statement.




I agree, but I do not mind reading about a guided hunt as long as it was fair chase and the article does not come off as one big advertisement.

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.


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