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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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herbertnb
.224 member


Reged: 14/05/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Canada
Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser
      #92138 - 20/12/07 10:49 AM

I was unable to post the images in the earlier thread....

I would like to know if this rifle is a good candidate for rebarreling to a more readily available ammo like a 30-06. My concern is that the name DEFOURNY LIEGE is on the barrel which would be lost once rebarreled. Also B.Blindee is on the barrel, don't know what it means.



Photo 1

Photo 2

Photo 3

Photo 4


It has the following marks / writing

DEFOURNY LIEGE Made in Belgium (on barrel)
8x60 S B.Blindee (on barrel)
"R" with a crown on top (on barrel and reciever)
Crowned Oval with with "ELG*" inside , (on barrel & receiver)
PV with a lion on dragon on top (also on receiver and bolt handle)
"D" with a star on top (on both barrel and reciever)
A sort of tower on the receiver.

Metal to wood fit is excellent, trigger is excellent. Bore is like new. 2xxx serial number.

Thanks

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m4220
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Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 233
Loc: wa
Re: Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser [Re: herbertnb]
      #92143 - 20/12/07 11:43 AM

Why would you want to change from such a great classic calibre that the rifle was originally built in? 8x60S ammo is not that hard to find (might stock up if not a handloader) and reloading components are available. Personally I think you would be making another classic rifle disappear never to be seen as its maker had intended, ever again. Just my opinion!

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zimhunter
.333 member


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser [Re: m4220]
      #92162 - 20/12/07 02:09 PM

While the 8x60 is an excellent round and the gun appears pristine it is a late 50's, I would imagine, rifle and nothing collectable or exceptional. The action appears to be a standard FN commercial action of the period. Given that I would probably just get dies (which are available ) and reload for it or shoot factory ammo which is available. I had a double in that caliber and was well pleased with it. The 'bombe' or magnum load is about equivalent to the 300 H&H is my understanding. The 'S' indicates it's .323 so bullets aren't a problem and I think cases can actually be made from 06 brass. On the other side of the coin it's an excellant action on which to build whatever you want. You pays your money and makes your choice.

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Nakihunter
.375 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser [Re: zimhunter]
      #92165 - 20/12/07 02:26 PM

I would keep the rifle as it is. A standard FN action in a nice caliber like that is still a nice rifle. If you are still not happy with the caliber after the above opinions, you might want to consider trading the rifle for a nice 30'06 - it would cost you nothing & you might get another Mauser with some history in exchange. Just my $0.02 worth.

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.

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herbertnb
.224 member


Reged: 14/05/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Canada
Re: Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser [Re: Nakihunter]
      #92268 - 21/12/07 09:15 AM

thanks guys for all your replies. After reading the posts I did some reading/research on the 8x60 and after learning more about the caliber I have decided to not make any changes to the rifle. As there are no ammo available in Canada for the 8x60 S, I have decided to get into handloading and will be shortly getting a RCBS kit to get me started, I have the following questions.


1. The Gun came with 2 RCBS dies which I did not pay any attention to, but yesterday I had a good look at them, one says F.L N and the other is Seat N, but both says 8x60 and not 8x60 S. Are the dies same for 8x60 & 8x60 S?

2. 8x60 S brass is available from both Huntingtons & Buffalo Arms. Huntingtons brass is RWS and will cost me $2 per piece by the time it reaches me in Canada. Huntingtons brass does not have any name and would cost me about 90 cents, so I guess they are locally made. I have ordered 40 pieces of RWS brass from Huntingtons but if there is no difference it will be cheaper ordering from Buffalo Arms. Is there any difference that I should be aware of?

3. I still would like to own a mauser based 30-06 or 270 for regular use, what should I expect to pay for a new or near new FN non military action if I can find one?

Thanks in advance for your patience and answers.

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m4220
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Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 233
Loc: wa
Re: Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser [Re: herbertnb]
      #92282 - 21/12/07 10:44 AM

Smart choice, I think you will be happy you left it as an 8x60S once you get set up, you can see pictures of mine on this site by searching for Heinrich Scherping with the search window. The only difference in the 8x60 & 8x60S is the 8x60 uses a .318 dia bullet & the 8x60S uses a .323 which are much more available. You should be able to buy factory RWS ammo also but it is expensive but comes with the really good H-mantel bullets. The standard loading will be 196 grn driven at about 2500 fps. If you PM me with you e-mail address I will try to attach some data on it and send to you.

m4220

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Nakihunter
.375 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser [Re: m4220]
      #92290 - 21/12/07 11:02 AM

Herbert, Good decision. I am sure you will enjoy this rifle & will find it adequate for most of your hunting.

You can use the RCBS dies but change the expander ball to 323 from the current 318.

I have no experience with this particular round but it is not very far from a 30'06 with 200 gr bullet or a 318 Wsley Richards or a mild load 9.3 with light bullets.

Regarding a 30'06 - I have seen Guild German Muser 98s with claw mounts & scope for about $800 to $1200 on the web. That would be a nice hunting rifle & even better than an FN (unless you want a modern stock, scope etc.)

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser [Re: herbertnb]
      #92306 - 21/12/07 01:23 PM

Herbertnb,

A very nice rifle and a very good decision, I might add. I just PMd a member here about something different but what I told him probably applies here as well - somehow, I feel that it is always a good idea to preserve the old and unusual because so much of it is actually disappearing around us, dying like people never to be again. Since your rifle appears to be in pristine condition, it might be really nice to hunt with it as it is and enjoy it as its original makers had intended for it to be used. Altering it would take some of its charm away - it would be as unfortunately funny as my trying to dance on a floor surrounded by young couples in their 20s.

Speaking of FN sporters, I have seen several come up on sale in Northern Illinois and in Wisconsin for asking prices between $ 700 and $ 1200 in the non embellished versions in 270 and 30-06. I would personally suggest Mike Schrank's Smoke N Gun as a store to look for this kind of stuff. Mike died recently and I haven't been able to go there and pay my condolences but he always had nice guns and at some of the most reasonable prices I have seen anywhere. Scheels in Appleton WI and Cabelas in Hoffman Estates also have several FN Mausers in different calibres from time to time. I go there frequently and culd check and report on what is available if you want me to find out.

Good hunting and congratulations on owning a fantastic rifle!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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zimhunter
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Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #92319 - 21/12/07 02:37 PM

Issue #118 of Handloader magazine (Nov-Dec 1985) had a very good article by Ken Waters on reloading the 8x60S. These were still available from Handloader Magazine. He goes into detail about forming brass from 30-06 brass and details many good loads. It's an issue worth getting. I used it for developing loads for my 8x60RS double rifle and they were very good. Basically all you need is a couple of expander balls to neck up the 06 brass in steps then fireform them. He makes a good point that if you use 30-06 brass you should deface the headstamp so as not to inadverdantly load the .323 ammo in an 06. I would check and see if you can find some GI brass with no caliber headstamp. Just a suggestion. I think you will be pleased with the performance, I certainly was.

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Collath_500BPE
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Reged: 30/08/06
Posts: 123
Loc: Europe, Austria
Re: Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser [Re: herbertnb]
      #92338 - 21/12/07 05:53 PM

Hi herbertnb,
here are your needed datas.I use that caliber in an original Mannlicher Schoenauer since years with the best hunting results.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year and a good hunting season 2008
Johann [image]http://[/image]

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser [Re: herbertnb]
      #92407 - 22/12/07 01:10 PM

I'd leave it alone. Good caliber and easy to load. Your dies will work fine, and may already have an S-bore expander ball. Just measure it.

"B. Blindee", with apologies to PHC, isn't a barrelmaker's name, or anyone else's. The proof marks are Belgian, which means they're printed in French. Belgian rifles are proved for either lead or jacketed bullets and will be marked " B. Plomb" or "B. Blindee". B. Plombe is Balle Plombe, or "lead bullet". B. Blindee is Balle Blindee, or armored or plated bullet which, on this side of the pond, means "jacketed bullet".

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States
Re: Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #92479 - 23/12/07 12:57 PM

Quote:

I'd leave it alone. Good caliber and easy to load. Your dies will work fine, and may already have an S-bore expander ball. Just measure it.



Ditto.

The bolt handle configuration is very much different from my 1939 Husqvarna 146, 1953 Husky 648 and my son's .270, all of which sport FN-made actions.

I am assuming that DEFOURNY did not make their own actions but probably bought FN actions. Is that correct? Would they have purchased FN actions, then altered the bolt to a specification of their own? Is this a common handle configuration for this maker?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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zimhunter
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Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser [Re: 9.3x57]
      #92486 - 23/12/07 03:27 PM

Bolt handle appears to me as the standard FN commercial action of the early fifties. The only thing I can't see is, is the underside of the knob flat and checkered with fine checkering. Only other thing that looks different to me is it looks like it has a military/commercial Mauser safety lever and the FN's I have bought during that period all had a low safety on left side to clear the scope. That was the standard rich guys action when I was in Gunsmith school. Most of us used Militaries.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States
Re: Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser [Re: zimhunter]
      #92488 - 23/12/07 03:52 PM

Zim:

The pix are very dark but the bolt handle appears to have a straight bend quite unlike the rounded swept back handles on our early-50's FN's. Looking at the Defourny again, maybe it is the dark shadow at the handle root that makes it look angular instead of swept back like ours?

Incidently, my 648 has a military safety, while our FN .270 has a scope-friendly Buehler-type safety.

Herbert, does your rifle have a two-stage trigger or single-stage? My son's .270 has the single stage, and my 648 originally had a single stage that I replaced with a two-stage as on Mausers I prefer the double pull.

Is the bolt handle shape the same as this one?



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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herbertnb
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Reged: 14/05/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Canada
Re: Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser [Re: 9.3x57]
      #92520 - 24/12/07 06:04 AM

The trigger on this rifle is a two stage trigger. I am also adding some images of the bolt.

Bolt 1

Bolt2

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zimhunter
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Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser [Re: herbertnb]
      #92524 - 24/12/07 06:59 AM

While the curve or sweep of the bolt handle appears the same as the FN's I've known I don't remember ever seeing an FN without a flat bottomed knob and I have never seen one without the low safety either so doesn't ring any bells for me. All the commercial FN's I ever bought had a single stage trigger and the rear of the follower was beveled so it didn't hold bolt open. That's why they were THE desirable acton when I was in gunsmith school, no modification or polishing was required at all. Also one other point was distinctive, the floorplate release button extended above the plate approx 1/8" and was not round but elliptical in shape as I remember. Sorry.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Defourny 8x60 S - Belgium Sporter Mauser [Re: herbertnb]
      #92528 - 24/12/07 07:43 AM

Herbert & Zim: Thanks for posting. Funny, it looked different to me on the first set of pictures {on my computer they were dark and the shadows made the root look straight with a straight back angle to the handle shaft}.

In fact, your bolt is identical to the bolt on my Husqvarna M648. Same swept back shape. And, my 648 does NOT have a flattened underside. My 146 does, as does my son's .270. I do not know when my son's .270 was made. My 146 was made c.1939, but the action/bolt is an FN military configuration.

Anyway, Herbert, that is a nice, practical rifle in a great caliber!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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