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Yogi000
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Jungle Gun
      #91375 - 13/12/07 04:25 AM

We all hear the term---Jungle Gun. Yet I feel it might conjure up different images for different people. Naturally.

When I hear it I think of a double that packs power for what typically resides in the jungle (including the kind that would love to give you a face lift) yet light in weight enough and short enough because you'll be carrying while walking in the Jungle and in close cover you need to point it at potentially charging objects at point blank range.

I think the 375 H&H double with 21-22ish inch barrels is an excellent candidate as a terrific Jungle Gun. Although I would imagine--and I could be purswaded by---some who would poopoo this 375 as too light and say the 470 is the ideal and truly the KING of the Jungle Gun.

Note: I have a preference for very short and lighter in weight double guns in close cover. (just touching 9 or even better under 9 pounds in weight, that is)

Edited by Yogi000 (13/12/07 04:51 AM)


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Dave_Hall
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: Yogi000]
      #91382 - 13/12/07 05:48 AM

What are you hunting? A double that light would be sweet in 450NE or 500NE.I have never shot the 470 so I wouldnt know about that.Dave

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Yogi000
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: Dave_Hall]
      #91383 - 13/12/07 06:06 AM

Good question. Obviously not all Jungle hunts involve the same animals although trapsing through The Jungle one must be ready for cats (any size and make) to snakes, to crocs, to buffalo, to the other biggies (obviously local inhabitants depends on what Jungle you are in).

My ideal need for a Jungle Gun would be for big cats, but I would want to be able to stop a charge of something with tougher skin and a harder to reach brain.

I like the 450NE option, too.


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DarylS
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: Yogi000]
      #91389 - 13/12/07 09:05 AM

I always thought the term "Jungle Gun" meant a double smoothbore of 16 to 12 bore.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NE450No2
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: DarylS]
      #91398 - 13/12/07 10:53 AM

Jungle Gun was a term used by one company ot designate a shotgun that had some sort of means to spin a solid projectile accurate ot over 100 yards ans shoot shot charges as well.

I cannot remember off the top of my head what company it was but H&H used Paradox, others used Cosmos, Collindon [sp] etc.

Westley Richards probably developed this principle further than the others wioth their very good sheels for their version. I know the 28 ga was called the Faunetta and their catalogue shows it killing game as large as moose.

There are a lot of jungles the world over, so I would want to know which jungle I would be in, before picking a suitable gun to carry.

A double rifle drilling would also be a good pick for most places I think.


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mehulkamdar
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: NE450No2]
      #91399 - 13/12/07 11:06 AM

The Paradox/Explora/Fauneta etc concept was superbly effective in India's thick jungles and these guns were used to take all of India's game during the Raj years. Even sellers of bread and butter guns like Harrington and Richardson made cheap break open hammer single shots in 12 bore for many years after India became independent for the Indian market with partially rifled barrels, though these were typically 28 or 30", not short barrels.

These days these guns are used to take some of the game that is still permitted in some states in India - wild boar and nilgai on crop protection permits. The hunting of predators is no longer allowed because of their severely depleted numbers.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #91423 - 13/12/07 12:18 PM

I think of a short carbine length bolt rifle as a "jungle gun", a carry over from the SMLE "jungle carbine".

In a double rifle I think of a .450 or larger to hit the gaur, buffalo, tiger or elephant hard with a quick hasty shot in thick cover.

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Paul
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: NitroX]
      #91459 - 13/12/07 07:39 PM

Corbett would probably bet on the .500 BP express or N for B, when tigers were on the list. The fat, heavy bullet had some ability to slow or divert a charge, it seems, as well as kill the beast.

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Sarg
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: Paul]
      #91460 - 13/12/07 08:12 PM

NE450No2 , Army & Navy called there 12 bore rifled choke the "JUNGLE GUN" I was looking at one a couple of months ago at the gun smiths !

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DarylS
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: Sarg]
      #91481 - 14/12/07 03:03 AM

Sarg has it - Army Navy.
; And yes, the #5 Enfield was called a "Jungle Carbine", but many years after the "Gungle Gun's were built.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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JabaliHunter
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: DarylS]
      #91485 - 14/12/07 04:38 AM

If I were going to hunt in the CAR or similar 'jungles' then I think that I would go with a synthetic or laminated stock, controlled round feed stainless action, 20in barrel, black teflon or powdercoat type finish. It would probably be in .458 Winchester, as the cartridge is widely available in that part of the world and uses a standard length action, but maybe a reduced velocity Lott with a heavier bullet (as it can also fire the Win round).

If I wasn't afraid of rust or split walnut stocks, I'd probably use a double otherwise


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degoins
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #91488 - 14/12/07 05:04 AM

Hmm.......I wonder if anybody could make good "paradox" barrels for muzzel loaders?

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smicha6551
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: degoins]
      #91495 - 14/12/07 06:49 AM

Well, there is a synthetic stock available for the Blaser D99 drilling, which can come in 9.3x9.3 over a 20 bore barrel.

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Yogi000
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: degoins]
      #91496 - 14/12/07 06:58 AM

smoothbore, eh? Daryl I like that definition... (yeah, I'm prejudiced)

Albeit, the various definitions posted make sense and, as others have noted, several were labeled as Jungle Guns.

I think when all is said and done, my interpretation of a Jungle Gun would be a short barreled double, either a rifle or a smooth bore, and I suppose when and if paradoxes come back to life I would add that in.

I guess when i asked the question I was not thinking of back when pardoxes were used. I was thinking "more current" definitions of a Jungle Gun.

For sure when I get my jungle hunt it will include a double side by side 12 smooth bore, although that wasn't what I would call a Jungle Gun until Daryl pointed it out that a 16 to 12 smooth bore was at one time generally referred to as a Jungle Gun. But I would have a 375 or a 450 or 470 or 500 double rifle for sure in ANY Jungle hunt.

Edited by Yogi000 (14/12/07 06:59 AM)


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NE450No2
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: Yogi000]
      #91506 - 14/12/07 08:37 AM

Gentlemen
I once handled a British double rifle in 450/400 with 21 inch barrels.

That would make a great "Jungle Double" IMHO.

However there is a Germen fella that does some hunting in the African jungle that used reduced loads in his bulpup, 460 Wby no less, for smaller game.

Still after using Drillings for several years I think the ideal "modern" jungle gun would be a drilling.

In South American jungles I think 2 shotgun bbls and one rifle bbl [conventional drilling] would be best as there are not a lot of BIG dangerous animals.

However in Africa, where buff and elephants are present I would want a double rifle drilling [2 rifle bbls and one shotgun bbl], in a calibre I felt comfortable with.

Several companies make 9,3x74R double rifle drillings, but Krieghoff makes an "African Double Rifle Drilling" in calibres such as 375 Flanged, 500/416, and 470, along with a 20 ga bbl.

I do know next time I go back to Africa my Blaser D99 Duo in 9,3x74Rx9,3x74Rx20 ga 3" [scoped] will definately make the trip.


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LGF
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: NE450No2]
      #91534 - 14/12/07 01:42 PM

For what it is worth, there are only two places in the world today where an unprovoked attack by a big cat is more than vanishingly unlikely. One is by tigers in the Sundarban swamps on the border of India and Bangladesh (and then only on the Indian side), the other is by lions in SE Tanzania/NE Mozambique. And even there, the lion attacks only occur at night. Of course, all bets are off when they are provoked, by a bullet for instance.

Edited by LGF (14/12/07 01:48 PM)


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NE450No2
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: LGF]
      #91537 - 14/12/07 03:07 PM

LGF

While I would not consider a Cougar a BIG cat, there are a few joggers in sunny California that might want to disagree with your statement.


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Yogi000
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: NE450No2]
      #91614 - 15/12/07 07:27 AM

Indeed. Good point. In fact a few nights ago when I walked out of my house in good ole upstate NY and heard in front of me the very distinctive growl snarl of a very big cat, and albeit while I was not attacked, the sentiments were expressed.

Had I been perhaps a bit smaller in structure or NOT waking out of my well lit home, for example if I was just strolling on a path near my home, an attack could hardly be ruled out... believe me that loud, deep snarl growl made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up to attention!

And others nearby have had their BIG farm animals attacked and/or killed by something with very BIG claws.

So I guess along side those other two JUNGLES you might want to add upstate NY and jogging/mountain bike trails in CA.


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LGF
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: NE450No2]
      #91615 - 15/12/07 07:30 AM

Please note: I did not say impossible, I said vanishingly unlikely. Given the number of miles/hours that are hiked/jogged/hunted annually in cougar country, I think that is a fair estimate of probabilites.

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: degoins]
      #91643 - 15/12/07 01:53 PM

Quote:

Hmm.......I wonder if anybody could make good "paradox" barrels for muzzel loaders?




Degoins,

The best person to contact would be Ernie Stalman of Badger Barrels, the very person who advised Holland and Holland when they decided to reintroduce the Paradox a few years ago. Though he does not offer them on his website, he could easily make them for you.

Call him up - there are few nicer people to talk to.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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DarylS
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #91663 - 15/12/07 05:50 PM

I suspect anyone with a rifling machine could rifle a full or extra full choke. That would give .020" depth per side on a full choked gun. It would not be difficult and the rate of twist would be in the 60" to 70" range, just fine for round balls. Given consistant bores, a cutter head would not be difficult to make and one cold use an old muzzlelaoding rifle barrel section for a guide. Pretty easy for a handy guy with a minimal shop.
: There are a at least couple guys over at americanmongrifles.com who have rifling machines. One's machine is for sale.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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jaz
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: DarylS]
      #91720 - 16/12/07 10:56 AM

I have a "Jungle Gun", made by Army Navy, Webley "Screw Grip" action 28" barrels, about 7 3/4 lbs. Probably the oddest rifling I've ever seen. Wide lands and grooves STRAIGHT about 21" and then a very slight twist to the right the last four inches. 19 grains of Unique and a Paradox style bullet, 2" at 50 yards, I can't see to 100...
The tern "Jungle Gun" was often used to describe "Ball Guns", large bore shotguns with no rifling. Only Army Navy signs their guns Jungle Gun.. I also possess a Cosmos and Paradox, which are all in the category of "Ball and Shot guns" which all have some type of rifling, be it, Ratchet, Invisible, Oval or the screwy one on my Army Navy.
JZ


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LGF
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: jaz]
      #91740 - 16/12/07 02:31 PM

I have a 12 bore Jeffery with 32" barrels, folding leaf sights (50 and 100 yds) and a smooth bore, choked 1/4, 1/4. Said to have been made for use in India. Is that a ball and shot gun, albeit no rifling?

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jaz
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: LGF]
      #91745 - 16/12/07 05:05 PM

I would have to ask, how much does it weigh and is it hammerless. Bore rifles can be further broken down to include smooth bore guns. Generally these guns have hammers, shoot between 4 to 7 drams of black and weigh between 9 and 13 lbs.and intended for ball or conical only. Ball and shot guns are more like modern day shotguns capable of shooting both shot and slug, weighing 7.5 to 8.5 lbs, usually hammerless,not always.
JZ


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DarylS
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: LGF]
      #91758 - 17/12/07 03:10 AM

The sights pretty much says it all. It doesn't matter what the weight is as if it's got sights and no rifling, it was meant to shoot round ball as well as shot. The underside of the tubes should shot the loads recommended.
: Measure the muzzles and do not use a ball larger than those.
; I have a friend who has an English 6 bore muzzleloading double, meant for ball or shot. H&H refurbished it back in the early 80's. Now, it looks new as it was in excellent shape when sent. Holland's re-bored, lapped and polished the tubes to 5 bore. Wil used to shoot trap with it - all 16 pounds of it.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (17/12/07 03:16 AM)


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jaz
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: DarylS]
      #91777 - 17/12/07 06:58 AM

Daryl
The question is "Is it a ball and shot gun" The term "Ball and Shot" refers to those guns which replicate a shotgun but can also shoot a bullet. They are basically the same weight as a normal shotgun and therin lies the difference. These guns were made between the mid 1880's and 1920, with some exceptions. I have a Westley Richards "Ball Gun" 10 bore, 14 lbs, express sights, which can not be considered a Ball and Shot Gun. It may be referred to as a Ball Gun or a Jungle gun, as it is not rifled.
I guess it is the terminology which can be misleading.


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degoins
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: DarylS]
      #91856 - 18/12/07 12:20 AM

Mehul and Daryl,
thanks for the info.


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DarylS
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: degoins]
      #91872 - 18/12/07 03:31 AM

YOu're right, Jaz- technically, the ball and shot guns were lighter. Wil's 5 bore was meant for ball, but would, of course, handle shot as would any double smoothbore with sights, regardless of weight. To have been built specifically for ball and shot, it would have been lighter than specific ball guns. Due to having sights, it is obvious it is meant for ball. I do believe the ball and shot guns were somewhat heavier than normal English shotguns, which would run in the 7 to 8 pound bracket for 12. I don't think the weights grew too much until smokeless powders came about in 90's. Then, the heavy 12 bore load increased to 1-1/4 ounce and weights ran 8 to even 9 pounds, I believe. 'course, I might be thinking of something else.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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jaz
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: DarylS]
      #91904 - 18/12/07 12:46 PM

Again, two bore rifles I had were, 1, a 12 bore H&H, 6-7 dram gun, weight 12.8 lbs and a 6 dram Manton 12, 12.6 lbs, both capable of shooting elephants. Very powerful, only to be displaced by the nitro guns starting in the 1900's. I once shot a deer with the 12 Holland through the chest out through the rear hip, shattered the bones and inbedded itself 3" into a hickory tree. Pretty powerful stuff.

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DarylS
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: jaz]
      #91984 - 19/12/07 02:10 AM

I worked up to 7 drams of 2F in my double 12. It was a bit light at 7.5 to 8 pounds and almost spun me around each shot, but was quite accurate to 100 yards with .685" round balls at 466gr. in wheelweights. Hitting a 12" steel plate offhand, 2 rights, 2 lefts was not much of a trick. The same ballitics can be achieved easily, with low recoil and superb accuracy, without the excessive barrel heating that happens with black powder. This is for modern guns only, of course.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: DarylS]
      #92105 - 20/12/07 05:25 AM

In AFRICAN RIFLES AND CARTRIDGES, John Taylor devotes pp 90-92 to discussion of the JG's. Drawings of the ammo, too.

Rifled choke tubes used to be {still are??} available for many shotguns. I am still somewhat skeptical as to what 2 inches of rifling would do for accuracy, but maybe if ammo was properly made some improvement would be possible.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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jaz
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: 9.3x57]
      #92157 - 20/12/07 01:41 PM

The 2" of rifling is the legendary Fosberry patent first available as a Paradox from H&H. The patent ran out and the others copied it. Westley Richards perfected iy with the Super magnum Explora. Ross Seyfried shot an elk two years ago at 250 yards!!! I believe that says it all.

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9.3x57
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: jaz]
      #92158 - 20/12/07 01:44 PM

Quote:

The 2" of rifling is the legendary Fosberry patent first available as a Paradox from H&H. The patent ran out and the others copied it. Westley Richards perfected iy with the Super magnum Explora. Ross Seyfried shot an elk two years ago at 250 yards!!! I believe that says it all.




Actually, it only says a little...!

What was the load used?

Also, do you know if the rifling type is similar to the various {or any of the} screw-in tubes sold?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Nakihunter
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: 9.3x57]
      #92171 - 20/12/07 03:04 PM

I went & got 5 rounds of S&B brenneke slugs in 65mm case & 5 rounds of Winchester 70mm case hollow point 1oz slugs to try in my Webley & Scott shotgun. The gun has been messed with - forcing cones & chokes opened out & rib resoldered. If it shoots the slugs ok, I am planning to have express sights installed and use it on goats & targets. This will be my practice DR until I can afford to buy & shoot one.

Any help on this project would be appreciated as I am starting with zero experience on slug guns & DRs.

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.


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Yogi000
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: Nakihunter]
      #92233 - 21/12/07 01:50 AM

Naki--- Good luck! It is a noble project.

I have a 12 gauge double barrel slugger with express sites, monte carlo stock, etc. And it shoots those brenneke black magics into clover leafs at 50 yards.

The key as you stated above is to first see how it shoots slugs without putting a bunch of money into it.

I find shooting at 25 yards first is the best way to see how things migt work out... trying to shoot a group at 50 yards with a bead is asking too much.

Also, I recommend NOT bench shooting any double but rather shoot it with your forehand on the forearm and just support your arm like how they regulate double rifles... If a double is locked down as it might be for "bench shooting a bolt gun", for example, the double gun will shoot to very different points as compared to being locked down in a typical becnh shooting scenario. Hence bench shhotng any doubel in my opinion dopes not tell you antything and actually gives you false results, in my opinion.

So shoot your double shot gun with slugs at 25 yards using your forerm resting or braced on a bench or support to see how well it will shoot those slugs... then let us know. Probably under a different (and NEW) thread as this is supposed to be a Jungle Gun thread.


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DarylS
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: Yogi000]
      #92235 - 21/12/07 02:01 AM

9.3x57- the rifled chokes on the Paradox doubles were very deep indeed. I have some pictures of muzzles somewhere. The depth is needed to start spinning, a heavy projectile that is travelling in the 1,300fps to 1,500fps range already. A ratchet type of rilfing was also used, deepest at the bottom of the side of the groove that 'took' the most stress of spinning the ball(bullet), ie: right hand twist, left corner deepest.
: I think a normal full choke with a 1" to 2" end choke, if rifled should work fairly well. That would give .020" depth of rilfing each side.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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gatsby
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: DarylS]
      #92241 - 21/12/07 03:09 AM



Early Holland choke rifling.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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Yogi000
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: gatsby]
      #92267 - 21/12/07 09:02 AM

Jeeez, those are deep crevices!

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DarylS
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: gatsby]
      #92275 - 21/12/07 10:03 AM

Gatsby- that's exactly the picture I was thinking of. TKS for posting it.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5500
Loc: United States
Re: Jungle Gun [Re: DarylS]
      #92296 - 21/12/07 12:19 PM

Gatsby, thanks!

I want to send that pic to Marlin and then see if they keep calling their Ballard stuff "deep cut" rifling...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: 9.3x57]
      #92453 - 23/12/07 06:18 AM

The true JUNGLE GUNS were always large bore, and had relatively short barrels. I had an Army&Navy 577 Snider with 22" barrels, it was a hammer gun with fully rifled barrels. It had back action side lock exposed hammer locks, with a Jones under lever action. These were designed for tiger hunting from the back of an elephant, or from a machan built high in a tree, for the drivers to push the cats to the machans. Accuracy was unimportant past 50 yds, and usually were used a off the muzzle shooting! Lighter chamberings were use from machans, than on foot, or from Hawdah, because the tigers tended to try to get in these with you, so the short BIG bores for Howdah!

My rifle was certainly made for Tiger shooting, because it had tigers engraved all over it. It came from India in WW II by my father-in-law. He thought it was a slug shotgun, till he got it home, and found no shotgun shells would fit it. This rifle had a wear pattern around the barrels, and action that indicated it had been placed in a loop in a Howdah much the same as Howdah pistols were. I would love to hear the tales that old rifle could spin! That rifle worked quite well on baited black bear and moose, as well!

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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #92459 - 23/12/07 08:52 AM

Why did you not keep such a intersting & romantic rifle ,with famliy ties ?

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Jungle Gun [Re: Sarg]
      #92522 - 24/12/07 06:39 AM

My father-in-law had a brother who wanted it when my F-I-L died, so I traded it to him for two other rifles, and a shotgun. I still shoot it once in a while, and he has no sons, so I'll get it back when he goes. He's 92 yrs old, so maybe I'll still be around, as I'm YOUNG, only 71 yrs old.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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DarylS
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #92523 - 24/12/07 06:47 AM

Mac- what a great bush gun! - 85 to 100gr. black (to get it to regulate) and a 480 to 580gr. bullet of descent size.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: Jungle Gun [Re: DarylS]
      #92568 - 24/12/07 11:20 PM

Hi all,

Daryl and Sarg are right,

The only jungle gun by name I know of was made by 'Lyon and Lyon' who of course had it made for them by whoever(Richards?) and in large quantities, saw several for sale all marked 'jungle gun'

Merry Christmas!

Ben


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Yogi000
.333 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 265
Loc: New York, USA
Re: Jungle Gun [Re: empirevr]
      #93292 - 03/01/08 08:29 AM

Hey Naki---

Any progress or reports or the shooting of your double barrel slug gun(aka smooth bore pore boy Jungle Gun)???

I have been out with mine and missed a running shot at a fox at 50 yards. Heavy cover, steep terrain. Shooting down. The fox only presented me with one opportunity and it was moving pretty fast. I do need to work on my "snap shots".

But I do like this double with express sites.


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Nakihunter
.375 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Jungle Gun [Re: Yogi000]
      #93314 - 03/01/08 01:13 PM

Hey Yogi

I took the Webly out to the paddock at the back & tried a couple of loads - standing off hand.



I found the S&B Brenneke easy to shoot. The Winchester 1 oz slug had more recoil. I need to keep trying out a few groups & slowly extend to 50 meters.

I'll keep you posted.

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.


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Yogi000
.333 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 265
Loc: New York, USA
Re: Jungle Gun [Re: Nakihunter]
      #93358 - 04/01/08 02:31 AM

That is a very promising group!!! And with a front bead and NOT express sights. I would say you mots likely have your double barrel slug gun there. You are on your way. Congrats!

And as you probably figured you want a rear express sight that you can adjust LEFT/RIGHT as well as UP and DOWN. It makes all the difference.

Also, I found the same as far as recoil... the Brenneke's were not bad at all, but those Winchesters serve up a hard sharp kick.

I really enjoy when people actually TRY out their double barrel shotguns with slugs... Most times the results are the gun is definitely a shooter at 20-25 yards and often even at 50+... And off-hand!!!! which is how most shots will be made in the field. Anxious to hear more on this double of yours and the progress to make it a double barrel slugger with TWO sights!


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: Yogi000]
      #93365 - 04/01/08 03:16 AM

Barrels with ribs make for easy placement of rear sights.
: I simply dovetailed mine in. I've cut a lot of sight dovetails in muzzleloading barrels so it's no trick for me, but for someone who has never done one, I'd get a 'smith' to do it for you. You don't want to 'scratch' those tubes with the hacksaw or files. The front shotgun 'bead' may or may not be too low, depending on where the gun shoots. It can be filed on the sides to narrow it a bit, not much is needed, if at all.
: I picked up a couple boxes of WW slugs a couple years ago and only tried 2 from the pump gun. I didn't have any balls loaded up and was going to camp. They were the higher velocity ones, 1,700fps, but only 1 ounce. The 2 shots I tried, made a single hole at 25 yards, some 4" over my bead, so I left the shotgun at home. 4" over is too high and there was no time to 'adjust' things(higher front sight). In the dark on a facing bear it's difficult to judge holding 4" lower than where you want the ball to hit. Time is a factor. When there isn't any for shot placement adjustment, bad things can happen.
; Naki - a bit of windage adjustment and bingo on the Brenn's. They're just a bit wider than distance between the muzzles. That could show minor spreading or normal group size - Cool! More shooting will show what's going on. I find it interesting the WW made larger holes than the Brennekes. I'd have thought the Brenn's would have made larger holes with their wad-cutter-type ogives.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Yogi000
.333 member


Reged: 02/03/06
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Re: Jungle Gun [Re: DarylS]
      #93372 - 04/01/08 04:51 AM

Agreed. It seems odd the Brenneke's were so diminutive compared to the 1 ouncer winnies. Yet i am not sure I can see both Win slug hits really well.

I can't wait to try out some more home loaded round balls in mine!!!


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Nakihunter
.375 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Jungle Gun [Re: Yogi000]
      #93383 - 04/01/08 10:47 AM

Thanks guys. This is great help & encouragement. I'll certainly see this "project" to its finish & enjoy it. I have a few questions and would appreciate some help.

1 I do not reload shotgun ammo. What is the cheapest way to get slugs loaded? Can I buy slugs with sabots or should I cast lead slugs? Is wheel weight ok or too hard for a shotgun?
2 Even with just the 4 shots, I found a lot of leading in the barrels! I used solvent 3 times with soaking overnight & it still came out dirty with lots of shiny bits. I have now soaked it with Ezzox to see if it makes a difference. Is this normal or is it because my gun has had its forcing cones & chokes opened out (lead sticking to naked steel with rough tool marks)?

Just to share a technique of cleaning shotgun barrels.....This is a very crude but effective method I developed in India when using very dirty black powder & a barrel with pits.

I first get a strong bamboo stick that will fit the bore & is really strong (cane or wood will do as long as it is really strong). Now I roll a strip of news paper to the size just below a 12 guage shell case - this has to be a really tight plug of paper that should feel quite hard. Now I soak a round Otis patch with solvent & wrap it over the paper plug & insert it into the chamber. Then I use the bamboo "rod" to force the patch & plug through the bore. When it gets tight, I even bang the bamboo on the floor to force the plug throug! You will hear some loud squeeks as the cloth scrubs the barrel. As these were old guns, I was not worried. There is plenty of room for the paper plug to compress & the barrels do not scratch. A few passes of this treatment gave me real clean barrels. The friction just smeared the lead off. You can even use just the paper plug with solvent & it works fine. I found this a lot more effective than using a brush. I wonder if I should try this on the Webley?

I expect a bit of flack for this... but...what the hell!!

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.


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