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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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chrispie
.275 member


Reged: 30/01/04
Posts: 67
Loc: New England, USA
ferlach guns
      #9049 - 15/02/04 02:28 AM

hello, i noticed a ferlach gun by johann outschar in the cabelas gun room, its also in 458 win. the price was very cheap at 6500.00, and i was thinking of adding it to my vault, does anybody know anything about this gun, is it worth the 6500.00 or would i be better to spend my cash else where.

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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: ferlach guns [Re: chrispie]
      #9054 - 15/02/04 03:03 AM

I collect drillings and other combo guns...the Ferlach guild of gun makers make some of the finest guns made anywhere!!!

The gun was made to used and not archived, however. The Ferlach guns have never been collectors guns or investment pieces. They are some of the finest, but have no real following. Often, they are a collaberation of work by different specialists in the guild, thereby getting the best of the best.

If you like the gun and plan to use it...buy it. If it is a trophy gun...forget it...

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics


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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: ferlach guns [Re: luv2safari]
      #9060 - 15/02/04 04:34 AM

They are nice guns, but since it is chambered in 458 WinMag, you might have problems because it is a high pressure rimless cartridge.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: ferlach guns [Re: chrispie]
      #9074 - 15/02/04 07:20 AM

The answers above are quite correct, and the advice given is good as well, with two exceptions. Guild guns from Feralch are of verious qualities, depending who made them! The word "GUILD" brings on an automatic drop in price on the market! The reason is the guild guns that were labeled as such, they were the result of tests given to apprentices. every apprentice must built a gun from butt plate to muzzle by himself, before he is given the gorniman status. If he learned well, the rifle will be vey good quality, if not, the result will be less desirable. The "GUILD rifles were sold by the apprentices, to recoup some of the cost of education, and are not stamped Ferlach. Since this rifle is listed as Ferlach, without the GUILD notation, then it is a a consortium rifle, not a school, or studant, test rifle! These things must be judged on an individual basis!

The advice of not thinking this will be an investment buy, is very good advice, the best you can hope for is the return of your money, when you sell. However, the advice not to buy this rifle because it is a 458 Win Mag, is not sound. The rifle can be quite easily converted to 450NE 3.25", or 450#2 NE, by JJ at Champlin's makeing it into a very nice hunting double rifle. The $6500 price is high when one considers it has to be converted before it will be a desireable rifle for dangerous game. One thing you did not say, whether it was an O/U, or S/S. If it is an O/U, it is not worth the price,when one must convert, and not worth the price if left 458 Win Mag. If a S/S, it just IS worth the price with the cost of conversion tagged on!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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chrispie
.275 member


Reged: 30/01/04
Posts: 67
Loc: New England, USA
Re: ferlach guns [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #9075 - 15/02/04 08:09 AM

thank you all for your feed back, i knew nothing about the gun or its value. ill probably look else where. but if you have time , do check it out on cabela gun room.

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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: ferlach guns [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #9107 - 15/02/04 05:46 PM

Dugaboy1 is right and I was wr..wron..w,w,wron...I can't say it...! I wasn't exactly right...

Signed, it would in all probability be a consortium gun, not a guild gun. It may well still be a collaboration of craftsmen who turned out the final product.

I've never seen a bad Ferlach gun, and have seen some fantastic ones. Even the guild guns show a craftsmanship that should be envied.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics


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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: ferlach guns [Re: luv2safari]
      #9133 - 16/02/04 05:13 AM

In reply to:

It may well still be a collaboration of craftsmen who turned out the final product.




I would say it is almost certain that the rifle was a colaberation effort!

Almost all, if not all, other than Guild guns,which must be made in it's intirity, by one man, are made by a team.

There is usually an barrel man,who does the ruogh fitting of the barrels together, and an action man who does the primary joining of the barrels to the action by the the smoke, and file fitting. A stock man who is the wood fitter, and finisher, Then the rifles are sent to the regulator who regulates the barrels to the load. The rifle then goes back to the to the barrel fitter, who finishes the rib joining, and cards, and does the primary polish of the steel, and installs the final sights. The rifle then goes back to the regulator to file in the sights. When that is finihed, the wood is final fitted to the steel,the rifle is disassembled, and the steel finished,UNLESS engraveing is needed! If that is the case, the steel goes to the engraver. The stock is given it's final fitting to the steel, it's final finish by the stock man, The rifle,is then, given back to the regulator to check the rifle out for final approval, and to shoot in the test target that will accompany the rifle to it's new owner! An average of 400 man hours of very skilled labor is why the rifle has a price tag, that is higher than the price of my first new home, bought in 1956, even for a working double rifle! It is a wonder to me why they are not more expensive that they are!


--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: ferlach guns [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #9159 - 16/02/04 10:55 AM

Dugaboy1,

Ferlach is famous for their consortium approach to fine gun making.

Did the makers in Suhl do much of this, also? I had a pre war Merkel sidelock drilling that had the exact same action as my Charles Daly, that has the same action as my Sauer. It is the side cock design...my favorite. When I put them beside one another, I was hard pressed to see any outward difference. I think Sauer made them?? I can use the top tang safety, instead of the diabolical Greener side safety, and on two of the guns the right barrel would throw a Brenneke slug the same spot the rifle shot at 60 m. They don't have the top tang rifle selectors and have a manual flip rear blade sight, which means I can use the sight for slugs in the right (more open) barrel.

The other thing I like is the ability to press down on the rifle cocking lever...pull its trigger, and slowly bring it back up, releasing the spring slowly and uncocking the rifle.

Also, do you know who made the Eduard Kettner guns prior to WWII? I can't find any source of information, and when I write Kettner now, they reply with "where do you want your catalog sent?"

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics


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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: ferlach guns [Re: luv2safari]
      #9207 - 17/02/04 03:49 AM

In reply to:

Did the makers in Suhl do much of this, also? I had a pre war Merkel sidelock drilling that had the exact same action as my Charles Daly, that has the same action as my Sauer.




Suhl, is a city in east Germany, and when the Russians took over there, they shipped all the best machinest equipment to Russia to their defense plants. This left, the poor makers of firearms in Suhl to do a lot of "MAKE DO" work! The names of all the makers in Suhl, were crammed together, under the name SIMPSON, with the exception of Sauer. Sauer, workers escaped into west Germany, and started a new small plant, makeing very cheap, though quality guns in West Germany. The Churchill was most likely made by Sauer. All this is confuseing because they all were made on the same format on both sides of the wall. Later SIMPSON made most of the best firearms under their own name, and assigned the substandard work to the old names like Merkel, and others! All these names were embargoed for import into the USA, till the wall fell.

In reply to:

The other thing I like is the ability to press down on the rifle cocking lever...pull its trigger, and slowly bring it back up, releasing the spring slowly and uncocking the rifle.




This is a good feature,on a drilling, and is common to most side, and bottom lever cocked rifle barrel drillings. I had a drilling with no name on it, that I think was a Simpson,(READ cold war MERKEL) that had the tang safety, and what looked like a Greener side safety, or barrel selector, which was actually a barred feature blocking the tang safety from being accedently disengaged. I have several Westley Richards doubles that are fitted with barred safeties, but the lever is on top, in front of the tang safety.

In reply to:

Also, do you know who made the Eduard Kettner guns prior to WWII? I can't find any source of information, and when I write Kettner now, they reply with "where do you want your catalog sent?"




As far as I know Kettner made them, but I have only owned one Kettner double rifle in my life, an 8X57JR. It was a nice rifle, but I simply do not know much about the name's history!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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