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mehulkamdar
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Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK
      #89834 - 27/11/07 08:05 AM

I wonder why on earth Remington have not started offering them in the US? Also, I know that guns are expensive in the UK but does Pounds 650 sound reasonable for what is being offered?

Thanks for all views in advance and good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

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AkMike
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #89844 - 27/11/07 09:36 AM

They are showing up on the auction sites recently. Only in 30-06 though. The price is about $1000 USD. So far there aren't any reports of the action springing like the last batch that didn't carry the Remmy name tag.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: AkMike]
      #89864 - 27/11/07 12:54 PM

Mike,

I find it really strange that the Brits (lucky sods! ) can go to a shop and buy one of these in 30-06 or 45-70 off the shelf while, despite Remington being an American company, we don;t get to see the rifles over here. And, in any case, the 45-70 would most certainly see more use in the US than in the UK - but the Brits are getting them and we aren;t over here.

Someone at Remington need to get their head examined...

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

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AkMike
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #89867 - 27/11/07 01:28 PM

I'm afraid that there'll be problems with people trying to re chamber them into a 450#2. I doubt it'll handle the extra Ommmph.
Earlier at AR there was a thread by a Canadian with a Bikal 30-06 that sprung the action with stock ammo.
I will not buy one even for a truck gun beater.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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500Nitro
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: AkMike]
      #89870 - 27/11/07 01:48 PM



mehulkamdar


May have something to do with your litigious society
where they heap all the blame back onto Remington.

For the amount of $$$ they may make, they may be
wondering if it's all worth the hassle.

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: 500Nitro]
      #89885 - 27/11/07 04:37 PM

500 Nitro,

If there are idiots somewhere who believe in taking crap and not suing to punish those who sold them junk, they deserve that junk. What was the old saying about fools and their money...

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

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Michael
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #89889 - 27/11/07 07:23 PM

The Baikal (not Remington) doubles have been available here in both u/o and sxs configurations for quite a while and the feedback on any safety or build issues have been NIL.

The sxs is available in only 30/06 and .308 so far (I doubt whether we'll see the 45/70 anytime soon) and the u/o have been available in these plus 9.3x74R. Again saftey problems or reports = NIL. Problems reported with the regulation system also = NIL.

I assume that given the length of time on the market and the adjustable regulation of these doubles that a few have been shot with fairly stout reloads (not recommended) and the problems reported with these also come to the total sum of NIL.

Yes you get what you pay for but to constantly denegrate all these guns based on one bad report is ridiculous. I am sure that the Canadian had a bad experience but who can honestly say that the total production run of all mass produced guns did not include one lemon. To say you would not have one even for a beater truck gun is a bit harsh considering your opinion is based on NIL personal experience.

Get some perspective please.

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AkMike
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: Michael]
      #89894 - 27/11/07 08:14 PM

Remmy hasn't made a good rifle since the Hepburn!
I own 2 of these and nothing newer!
My "perspective" is that I have other better DR's so why waste $heckles on that thing!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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AkMike
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: Michael]
      #89895 - 27/11/07 08:18 PM

Quote:

build issues have been NIL.
saftey problems or reports = NIL.
regulation system = NIL.
sum of NIL.
opinion is based on NIL personal experience.

Get some perspective please.



So Michael,do you have any verifiable hard numbers or is your opinion = NIL and your talking to hear your self make noise?

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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500Nitro
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: AkMike]
      #89896 - 27/11/07 08:51 PM


Michael

Are you the importer of the Baikals into Australia ?

If not, do you know what the answers is NIL
to all the guns imported ?

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peter
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: 500Nitro]
      #89899 - 27/11/07 09:15 PM

i must say that michael might have a point.

baikals are a lot of things, soft and weak usually is not the problem.

lets give them a fair chance, shit the blazer had a few incindents in europe and that is a very strong rifle, you can take every gun maker and they will have a lemon or two in there past.

mehul

If there are idiots somewhere who believe in taking crap and not suing to punish those who sold them junk, they deserve that junk. What was the old saying about fools and their money...

it just seems to me that quite a few of your fellow americans use your legal system like a lotto ticket. i dont know the details about the incindent with the wrecked baikal but if nobody got hurt then it is just a matter of telling the factory that it is a do over. suing should be the last thing on everybodys mind unless it is a get rich quick sheme.

IMO the legal habits in the us is killing a lot of small buisness ideas due to the insurance they have to keep in case they get sued.

regards peter

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9.3x57
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: peter]
      #89909 - 28/11/07 12:44 AM

I have seen many and owned four Baikals and had a lot {too much...} of interaction with the old EAA concern.

First, though I loved the concept of the EAA combos and I had one superb one, I did have some troubles with the EAA guns. Regulation was a problem on 3 of them, with no solution. One allowed primers to flow back through the breech and that gun was replaced by EAA. EAA was a difficult outfit to deal with, but in their defence they were very eager to experiment and encouraged the production and sale of Baikals in a whole host of calibers/configurations, some of which I wish were still for sale. My opinion is that they were just about ready to clinch the deal so-to-speak and establish a great line of guns in setups unavailable anywhere else when disaster struck and the marketing rights were sold to Remington. Maybe a good move for EAA. Bad move for the customer.

Remington has in my opinion absolutely screwed the pooch yet again. They eliminated the big game calibers from the combo line and shaved the line down to just a few guns, have made no improvements whatsoever as far as I am concerned and have ruined the entire marketing concept of the Baikals, which was to introduce to the USA very practical European concepts in hunting arms at a very cheap price. Oh, yes, for all this Remington added insult to injury by tagging on an additional $100-$150 Good-Ole-Boy Factor per gun. Your added value for doing business with Remington. Nothing for something.

Remington has a habit of dropping a turd in the punchbowl.

Look at the Mauser 98's they sell, or should I say, catalog. I'm not certain anybody wants them in their clubby plywood stocks. Look at the dandy Yugo .22 they took over. Ditto. Take an inexpensive, Eurostyled, walnut-stocked, practical, trim and slim, sleek little bolt rifle and hand it over to your designers to recreate into a cheap-looking Americo-Frankenstein halfbreed bastardized axe handle you don't even sell spare magazines for and then hand your loyal customers the bill that includes, surprise, yet another Good-Ole-Boy premium.

When Reminton goes out of business I bet they'll have a few '98's and some of these .22's left on the shelf. Unless they are successful at dumping them and the leftover Baikals on the shores of unsuspecting Blighty.

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400NitroExpress
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: Michael]
      #89915 - 28/11/07 01:29 AM

Quote:

The Baikal (not Remington) doubles have been available here in both u/o and sxs configurations for quite a while and the feedback on any safety or build issues have been NIL.

The sxs is available in only 30/06 and .308 so far (I doubt whether we'll see the 45/70 anytime soon) and the u/o have been available in these plus 9.3x74R. Again saftey problems or reports = NIL. Problems reported with the regulation system also = NIL.

I assume that given the length of time on the market and the adjustable regulation of these doubles that a few have been shot with fairly stout reloads (not recommended) and the problems reported with these also come to the total sum of NIL.

Yes you get what you pay for but to constantly denegrate all these guns based on one bad report is ridiculous. I am sure that the Canadian had a bad experience but who can honestly say that the total production run of all mass produced guns did not include one lemon. To say you would not have one even for a beater truck gun is a bit harsh considering your opinion is based on NIL personal experience.

Get some perspective please.



My, that's more than a little over the top. I'll bet the degree that he's privy to Remington's testing of this stuff = NIL too.

C'mon guys, garbahhhge is garbahhhge. A $50 gun for $1000. What a deal. There's a sucker born every minute.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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9.3x57
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #89919 - 28/11/07 01:45 AM

Quote:

C'mon guys, garbahhhge is garbahhhge. A $50 gun for $1000. What a deal. There's a sucker born every minute.



400, I wouldn't go this far.

I wouldn't call them garbage. The good one I had {.30'06/12 ga} was a 1 MOA rifle with the '06 barrel, shot slugs and rifle bullet to same POA at 40m and sent the shot cloud right around the front sight hold at same. The extractor worked perfectly on the rimless case, no functioning problems at all. Only reason I got rid of it was that the stock was smashed in an accident and I sold it in a act of admitted stupidity.

Too good to be true? Probably.

But I have read of many others that have good ones, too, too many to sweep aside as flukes, and my opinion is that if EAA had kept them going we'd have a line of very useful double and combo guns a fellow wouldn't be afraid to run hard and put up wet.

But it's a moot point.

Remington pounded the last nail into the coffin of that idea.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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watto
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: 9.3x57]
      #89955 - 28/11/07 09:09 AM

G'day all,
Well although I have said it before in another post, I had to respond. Several months ago I was looking to purchase my first double rifle and being a bit limited in the purchasing power, I was looking at the lower end of the market. After a kind offer from another member of this forum, I got to shoot half a dozen shots or so from his O&U Baikal in 9.3x74. I looked at the next up the price line at the one with the "pretty" high gloss stock complete with I believe imitation grain, for almost 3 x the price (Fabarm) The Baikal was certainly plainer and the machined checkering wasn't terribly
attractive, but the action was tight with what appeared to be a good fit apart from the but to action timber being a bit proud. I decided on the Baikal and after picking it up set to some loading. I won't quote exact loads here, but I put a few starting loads through first because I too was uncertain of the action strength. No problems picked up there so I progressed up to the load that would approximate the factory 9.3x74 ballistics.

In relation to the regulating device the only problem I had was OVER ADJUSTING, once I realized this fact I quickly had it grouping T & B 1.5 inches at 50m (bad mix there, sorry). I then adjusted my scope to centre of group 1" high at 50m and shot a few more groups for practice. Barring the first few groups over a folded jacket on the cat bonnet, all groups were shot how they would be when I hunt, standing with a side support of the nearest tree. I had loaded 60 rounds and used 55 of them in regulating, sighting in and practice and there were no problems of any sort.

My next days off work I went out to one of my local hunting spots and with only a short walk just on dusk spotted two Sambar hinds in the bottom of a gully at about 125m or so. They had seen me and started to move off slowly. I swung onto the low shoulder of the first and dropped it with a freestanding shot and 30 seconds later had cross hairs on the second one but did not take the shot as I was confident the first was down although out of sight. As it was the one I hit moved about 10m
before dropping.

So that is the extent of my experience with the Baikal 9.3 x 74 and it's sure plain but certainly not rubbish.

PS: I had a look at a beautiful Chapuis yesterday in 375 H&H and if I had $14,000 to spare I certainly would have been tempted. The entry level SxSmodel in 9.3 x 74 was quoted at $6,500AU,
and as much as I would like one I could not justify the extra $4,300 at this time and I am sure there are a lot of others members of this sight that would not call the Baikal crap, but value for money!

All the best and good shooting, Ian.

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Michael
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: watto]
      #89962 - 28/11/07 11:57 AM

500Nitro I assure you and others on this board that I do not import the Baikals but have not heard of any bad reports either on this forum or other Australian hunting forums who would discuss such issues if they arose. Also more to the point I have had this discussion with my local gun dealer who purchases the doubles direct from the importer and they have yet to hear any negative reports; so far they total NIL. Have you heard something?

AK Mike I am glad that you have other doubles to play with any will not spend the sheckles on a Baikal. But do not denigrate the person who can only afford a Baikal double and this is the only means for them to use this wonderful genre of firearm. Also if you so proudly have never owned a Baikal then how can you even contemplate to comment on something that you have absolutely no knowledge on and attempt to lord over the rest of us on here.

Let me give you some perspective - No I do not own a Baikal rifle but I do own two shotguns a sxs more than 40 years old and a o/u made in the 90's. They have both given years of trouble free service both in the steaming tropical floodplains of the Northern Territory and freezing duck blinds in Gippsland. These are field guns and they do not get any preferential treatment yet function flawlessly. Yes I understand that you are referring to rifles here but I am just highlighting the fact that my experience with Baikal has been nothing but positive.

Also for some very relevant additional perspective - please read Watto's post (he actually owns and uses the said double rifle).

PS. I do not post on here to hear myself talking, as you may notice I have been a member here for sometime and visit regularly yet my post count is still relatively low. If you took the time to review my posts you would find I only bother to put up topics for discussion that I find interesting or comment on things that I may have some knowledge about. Not make personal attacks on people who offer an alternative view or slander a product that I have not had any personal experience with.

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AkMike
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: Michael]
      #89966 - 28/11/07 01:23 PM

I do not believe that I ever said anything bad about the owners of these guns. I simply stated that there was a problem with at least one in Canada. I also said I wouldn't own one myself and I won't. I just wondered about the frames springing as stated.
There isn't any attack on you or other owners of Biakals. I know Russian machinery is over built. I've been there several times myself and have examined alot of differnt things. Many are crude in comparison. I have shot the SS Biakal in 06 while I was in Ukraine. It worked for a boar.
If you re-read I believe Watto is using an O/U not the SXS we're talking about.
Chill out Dude!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Michael
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: AkMike]
      #89974 - 28/11/07 04:57 PM

AK Mike no you didn't say anything bad about the owners, but based on the sum total of one complaint you and others have seen fit to fix a label to these guns, and as infered by another poster there is something about fools and their money. I personally need to see more evidence of problems with these guns before I start to consign them to the scrap heap, regardless of price. Also I know that Watto was speaking about the u/o and in fact I have used a friend's (9.3x74R) on a hunt in the Northern Territory a few months back; but seeing as you are calling them all crap I thought that Watto's experience may be of some value, just for perspective of course.

Also I would like to note that I never sought to represent myself as a person in the know of Remington and their testing results; if anyone does know they more than welcome to post the results here otherwise we are all acting on heresay and that is never a good idea.

Please don't tell me to "chill out dude". I am quite chilled, just keep to the facts, that is all I ask.

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: peter]
      #89977 - 28/11/07 05:18 PM

Peter,

I did run a small business in the USA, quite successfully until I decided to pursue a PhD, something that I want to do before I die. Never bought liability insurance for it and never had a problem myself. There are a few nuts who are addicted to suing, I guess, but there are vastly more people here who like to live quiet and decent lives.

Now, before this gets more off topic, thanks, Watto, for your report about your rifle. I spoke to a very good friend in the UK who is a leading dealer in fine guns (and who sells some of the greatest treasures that I know of to the vastly wealthy in the US and to the monarchs and nobility of the Middle East) some time ago and he told me that he thought Baikals were very strong guns in his opinion, if crude, but then, what does someone expect at the kind of low prices that they sell at? In any case, if remington were to put these guns on sale in the US, I would buy one in 45-70 to have some fun with it. No, I shall NOT buy a 30-06 because that is not what I want - I have a 30-06 Mauser rifle that I bought from Brian Perazone which I dearly like and I think Baikal should have looked at the 303 if they wanted a military medium bore for their rifles (Wolf do make 303 ammunition in Russia after all) instead of the 30-06.

I hope Remington have someone trolling the various forums - if they visit here, they would see how much interest there is in this product and probably offer it on sale instead of dragging their feet like they usually do.

Good hunting, everyone!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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AkMike
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: Michael]
      #89979 - 28/11/07 05:24 PM

"but seeing as you are calling them all crap I thought that Watto's experience may be of some value"


You, my friend need to get your head out of what ever anal oriface it's up in!
I never said that they were crap.
You seem to want to play word games and calling everything anyone else says NIL...
You Sir have earned my NIL.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Michael
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: AkMike]
      #89980 - 28/11/07 05:31 PM

You weren't calling them crap?

Well I must have misread your comment regarding you'll never purchase one even to use as a truck beater gun. Is this a compliment? If so you have my sincerest apologies otherwise don't get personal.

Every gun has a skeleton in the closet, a lemon that was taken back by a dissatisfied owner; lets just give this one the courtesy of failing before we start making judgements.

Is this too much to ask?

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AkMike
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: Michael]
      #89981 - 28/11/07 05:39 PM

I won't buy a Rolls Royce either.. But I didn't call them Crap either..
But then again this isn't a Rolls, Or a Chevy, Or a Ford.
Maybe an older Yugo?

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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500Nitro
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: AkMike]
      #89982 - 28/11/07 05:50 PM



Michael

As though the importer is going to spread negative rumours about the guns - but I will agree, there are not many.


Just one point - one mans Yugo is another man's Rolls Royce
- people expectations are different so some will think a Baikal is a u beaut, fair dinkum double - fine by me.

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watto
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: AkMike]
      #89983 - 28/11/07 06:08 PM

Terribly sorry if my comments were not relevant, but the heading on the posts relates to Baikals not specifically sxs or u&o. I was purely reporting my experience with what I believe to be a value for money double. As a matter of fact I am thinking of adding the 30/06 sxs to my stable. The sighting position is terrible for me but the open sights are no good for my sight these days anyway, so a low power scope or red dot would be going on it. While looking at the sxs I put a red dot on and suddenly
it lined up perfectly. If the rifle worked well then another few hundred dollars would buy a nice walnut blank to replace the very utilitarian standard stock and I could lengthen the pull a little at the same time. As has been reported here by others, I have not heard any adverse reports other than the finish, and most people state that that has improved from a few years ago. If that is correct maybe there has been an overall improvement in the quality compared to earlier models and some faults
may have been addressed and rectified. Finally as one who has had a 45/70 sxs on order for a couple of years, they are not happening yet. I have been told by one of their agents that the demand for other models will not allow the production of the 45/70 for at least another year.

All the best, Ian.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Baikals with remington markings on sale in the UK [Re: watto]
      #89984 - 28/11/07 06:38 PM

Quote:

Terribly sorry if my comments were not relevant, but the heading on the posts relates to Baikals not specifically sxs or u&o. I was purely reporting my experience with what I believe to be a value for money double. As a matter of fact I am thinking of adding the 30/06 sxs to my stable. The sighting position is terrible for me but the open sights are no good for my sight these days anyway, so a low power scope or red dot would be going on it. While looking at the sxs I put a red dot on and suddenly



Ian,

Why aren't your comments relevant? As a post from a user with first hand experience of the rifle, it is probably the most useful post on the thread along with 9ThreeXFifty7's first hand experience with a somewhat similar configuration.

Gentlemen,

I have heard of several U/O Baikals in Australia with no problems and recently it seems the S/S have arrived.

I think the 9.3 mm is a much better choice than a .45/70 any day as a practical hunting rifle calibre. The .45/70 appeals as a pseudo big bore and seems the main target of guys wanting to "upgrade".

I think Mehul is right, a .303 would have been nice too.

Sure everyone would like a Royal Grade vintage DR, or the best modern manufactured Heym they could afford, but a Baikal might still fit the bill as actual usuable game getter for hunters with more limited wallets. Not everyone buys double rifles to sit oiled in a collection. Some will be out there in the rain and mud shooting pigs by the dozen and deer by the handful. If they do that well enough for their owners that is what is needed.

However I am not impressed by how many guys want to immediately "upgrade" them by re-chambering them to something more powerful. This sounds like asking for trouble to me.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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