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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Magazine and feeding issues...
      #88461 - 08/11/07 04:46 AM

a number of years back (3, I think), I bought an M98 sporter in 35 Whelen from someone on this forum...

I love the gun. stupid accuracy, looks great, feels great... no complaints for the insanely cheap price I paid.

BUT...

it won't feed from the magazine. I can get one down and one in, but that's it... it won't feed anything past that.

the "tray" that is the floor of the magazine (atop the spring... I want to call it a follower for some reason) is a little chewed up, but not horribly (I don't think).

I THINK the issue is with a 250gr spitzer in .358 is just too bloody big/long for what appears to be an unmodified 1918 M98 magazine...

so, the question becomes: if this is the likely culprit, is it a DIY job for someone with VERY modest smithing skills.

if this is not the likely culprit, what is, and who fix it?

Thanks guys.

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #88463 - 08/11/07 04:56 AM

Try loading some empty cases. If they work in the magazine, the problem may be over-all length.

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: Tatume]
      #88467 - 08/11/07 05:43 AM

Can you fill the magazine with cartridges? Can you put two in, then push on top of them down into the magazine and do they return to the top against the feed rails?

Are they jamming in due to OAL?

Your problem also could be due to the fact that Mauser actions are designed to feed one caliber. Changing to another caliber can often cause difficulties ranging from mild to serious. SOME material might have to be removed from the front sides of the feed rails. If you know where to remove it it is easy, but if not, you can wreck an action pronto. Better get it to a good gunsmith who has experience rebarreling milsurps and making them behave.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #88475 - 08/11/07 08:06 AM

The M98 military magazine is not long enough to accept .30-'06 length cartridges when loaded to their normal length. The magazine accomodates cartridges up to roughly 3.320" overall.

The .30-'06 and .35 Whelen are loaded to about 3.350" overall length. You didn't say whether you were using factory cartridges, but if you were, that is probaly the reason for your difficulty.

If you are hand loading, try reducing the overall length to conform to the magazine.

Polishinig the surface of the follower or replacing it could also help alleviate the problem.

BTW, what is "stupid accuracy", or was that a typo for "super accuracy"?

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Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: xausa]
      #88476 - 08/11/07 08:23 AM

reducing the OAL is not possible, here is why... it shoots .25" groups with the handloads I have (virtually no one makes 250gr factory loads that are worth crap) and I'm not willing to try and re-recipie my loads to regain that accuracy, I don't have the time.

it sounds like the feed rails need to be altered... if its a touchy job, I'll pay someone to do it...

any good Mauser 'smiths in the Midwest?

"stupid accuracy" as described above is a reference to the fact that I'm not that experienced or skilled, yet was still able to deliver results that were so far beyond my abilities or expectations in a $500 rifle.

I haven't tried loading empties... at least I don't think so... I'll try that tonight... I think I have some naked brass.

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

Edited by Dark_Helmet (08/11/07 08:25 AM)

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #88479 - 08/11/07 08:48 AM

DH, Xausa is correct.

Getting the feed rails opened up will not help an OAL problem. That can be addressed by taking material away from the feed ramp, etc, but that is not a minor job and you'd probably spend less time working up new loads than getting a gunny to fix it.

Sounds like you might have a single loader there. Many 98 actions {24/47's, some Czechs, etc} are better candidates for the .358 Win or even better yet, the 9x57, 9.3x57 or 9.5x57 than the .35 Whelen. Sounds to me like a fellow got the gun going and left off the mag work.

Your problem is very much like that faced by owners of commercial 96-action Husqvarna 9.3x62's that will not take many factory-length cartridges and must be used with shorter-than-normal length handloads or factory rounds with bullets seated deeper.

I am dealing with a similar oal problem caused by a different reason; leade. My magazine on a couple Ruger 6.5x55's will handle long rounds, but the leade will not. I have had to seat bullets deeper than that allowed by older Rugers and Swede milsurps. So far merely seating deeper has caused no pressure problems for me and may not for you, but then again, I cannot say as seating depth can alter pressures so be careful.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #88484 - 08/11/07 09:14 AM

I'm a complete novice loader, and that's my largest fear... my 35 loads are no longer than the loads we use in a 30-06 conversion (later action, IIRC 1937 and I don't remember the factory, the 35 is a 1918 oberndorf unit) and the 30-06 feeds better than anything I've ever seen...

so I guess I have some faith that it can be corrected...

it looks like the feed ramp has been modified already to let the rounds clear, so I'm assuming it is a slope issue now.

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #88512 - 08/11/07 11:46 PM

I repeat: stuff some empty cases in and see if they work through the magazine. If they do, you probably have cartridges that are too long.

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Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: Tatume]
      #88535 - 09/11/07 03:42 AM

I haven't had a chance to do that yet (I <3 14 hour days...)

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #88664 - 10/11/07 04:19 PM

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah crap...

it won't cycle empties (wouldn't cycle 30-06 empties either),

I have a dummy round that I fed it and initially it took it and extracted it, but it didn't feel clean, so I tried again.

this time, the extractor failed to capture the rim of the case (didn't see it at the time) and it chambered the round very coarsely and then proceeded to leave the round in the chamber... and I don't have a rod here right now to force the issue.

then I did something stupid and need to get the magazine floor to drop, and it won't... have no idea why.

so basically, I need to just drop this at the smith with the ammunition and have him "make it right"...

CRAP!!!!! tomorrow is opening day...

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #88666 - 10/11/07 04:24 PM

btw, I measured some of the loads that I made and they are all actually a little over-length, so that isn't helping... I need to re-seat the bullets deeper in each of them, but I need to get a new caliper gauge first so I can set the depth on the dies.

I've already spent about $1000 fixing the "work" the first gunsmith did on it, now I have to fix my own stupidity... fabulous!!!!

(thank god I have a 30-06 that works like butter... too bad it isn't half as accurate.)

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #88677 - 11/11/07 12:57 AM

anyone know a competent 'smith in Nebraska?

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #88868 - 13/11/07 07:57 AM

update!

saturday morning I:

1) dislodged the "problem" from the chamber

2) cleaned it good

3) test-fed about 25 rounds through the gun, I can still get one down and one in and it will feed that round predictably... so I basically have a double-gun now.

4) oh, and then I put it across the tailgate of a pickup truck and proceeded to shoot a three different sub-half-moa groups of three completely different loads... with all nine points of impact falling within a 1.5-inch circle... now I remember why I love this gun...

also compared the ramp/rails to the 30-06 conversion we have and you can tell where a decent amount of material had to be removed to make it all work buttery smooth.

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #88888 - 13/11/07 12:33 PM

DH,

I can suggest a very good smith in Illinois if you want me to. But, more importantly, don;t you think that some pictures of such a fine shooting rifle are in order?

Good hunting and hope you get a great buck, but, when you do find time, please consider posting some pics.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #88893 - 13/11/07 02:13 PM

I think i posted some pictures a long long time ago... but I'll try to asap.

thanks for the reference, if I can't find someone here, I'll drop you a line.

and yeah, it does shoot phenomenally well....... for a $500 gun!!!

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #88894 - 13/11/07 02:15 PM

Oh, and you should see what this thing will do to a coyote at 70yds...



--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #89467 - 22/11/07 05:47 AM

well, it sure does work...

skewered a 4x4.5 on sunday morning... definitely didn't need the additional magazine capacity!!!

I'm going to get it sent off to a specialist in the next couple of weeks... just need to pick one!

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2112
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #89472 - 22/11/07 07:34 AM

OK Dark

Contact me and I'll talk you through this.

Steve

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Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Magazine and feeding issues... [Re: szihn]
      #89646 - 24/11/07 02:12 PM

will do steve..

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
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