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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game
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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Most Dangerous Safari???
      #89123 - 17/11/07 12:09 AM

Was speaking recently with a group of some outdoorsy folks who are non hunters(2 young professional men and a woman[drug reps]). Two made jest of hunting on safari saying -What is the real challenge when you have a "high powered gun"( no mention of the word rifle) and you walk up and shoot those animals?There seems to be little danger to the hunter, right?? I responded with apparent little effect on their perspective. I even invited them to log onto this website!

I told them that nothing hunting is guaranteed and that hunting was a skill to develop.If you stalk/shoot poorly you can even get killed!! I even offered to let the most obnoxious fellow shoot a real Elephant gun(my 500NE Double)but CRAP he suspected something and backed out!

I couldn't really say that my African PG hunting this summer was dangerous, but said that getting charged by any DG or specifically bull Elephant hunting was probably the most dangerous type of Safari, where you could be charged by Ele at any time. Told them to search U tube for clips.Neither fellow seem impressed.

You hunters have those"high powered guns" was their retort.

Guess the fellow thinks we should be using spears and such--

What do forum members think the most dangerous type of Safari would be for us hunter types that have all those "high powered guns"??

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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93mouse
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Reged: 17/08/07
Posts: 745
Loc: Slovenia
Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #89124 - 17/11/07 12:21 AM

Elephant cows in Zambezi valley (jesse) or in Save conservancy - those cows (couple of them) are just plain mad - they will charge the moment they will detect your presence - charged a vehicle from 100m.

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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #89132 - 17/11/07 03:00 AM

IMO, tuskless cows represent a greater danger than bulls. At least this has been my experience so far in various African countries.

Erik

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: EricD]
      #89140 - 17/11/07 05:15 AM

Polar bears...

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: 93mouse]
      #89141 - 17/11/07 05:46 AM

My friend GM has taken two bulls, but the cows chased them like crazy while following and trying to sort out the Bulls. After the bull was shot at least 9 cows appeared to even spread out and search for them in a pattern of sorts!!
Scary stuff!!

He has a healthy respect for Ele cows and got tired of running from them.He would have shot several but had no tag for cows.

I wonder which one of the species attempts more real charges instead of bluffing--Ele cows or bulls?? Are cows more dangerous than bulls or just more numerous and thus seem to attack more??

Edited by hoppdoc (17/11/07 05:49 AM)

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #89154 - 17/11/07 09:58 AM

Don't ever get into an argument with folks who say we have those "high powered guns". In point of actual fact, they are correct and arguing the point makes hunters look ridiculous in my opinion. There are far more dangerous activities a fellow can pursue than hunting, even hunting dangerous game. The point should not be that we hunt to confront danger or be heroes or legends in our own minds.

There may be a varying degree of danger in this or that hunting endeavor, but the confrontation of danger is really a small reality if you look at the number of total injuries and deaths suffered by hunters versus many "extreme sports". Rather, we hunt because we absolutely, without apology, enjoy being part of successful game management as the game harvester. We enjoy hunting; we enjoy the planning, the preparation and the efficient kill. We do in fact use "high powered guns" because the better the tool is, the more efficient the kill. We seek an efficient kill.

More to the point, WE are the most efficient "tool" the game manager has.

That some animals are more dangerous than others is obvious, and that certainly adds to the thrill, but the real probability that a fellow is going to get the axe by any critter is quite small.

Yes, you want danger for danger's sake? Get an assegai and go kill a lion with it.

Without a "high powered gun" for backup.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Nakihunter
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #89160 - 17/11/07 11:27 AM

I agree with 9threeXfify7. The other interesting analogy I have used on occasion is to ask them if they would prefer to date "high powered" women / men or a "low powered looser"? Similarly do formula 1 or V8 super car sports use "high powered" vehicles or just foot peddals?

Regarding cow elephants, I find your comments very interesting. I have never hunted elephants but I have been charged by Indian elephants on at least 5 or 6 occasions. Most of them were cows. The closest one was when a group of cows suddenly came forward to protect the calves & then three of them charged the jeep. By the time we got going they almost reached us in a cloud of dust. They missed us & hit the road about 4 feet behind the jeep. The back flaps were open & we could feel the heat of the animals along with all the dust. That photo above reminds me of so much of my experience.

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Always shoot through the target & not just at it.

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #89161 - 17/11/07 11:36 AM

9threexfifty7-

You are quite correct in that other sports can have much more inherent danger than DG hunting but part of DG hunting is the excitement/ability to harvest an animal that you would be helpless to confront unarmed.And yes its that "high powered gun" that puts the odds in your favor.Yet,it is not just the gun but the union of man + weapon that allows the harvest to occur.

It is that challenge that would make me hunt DG. We cannot personally justify the harvest of hunting DG by using the meat, thus we seem to hunt DG for the true sport of the hunt.

That's why man is the ultimate preditor,because he has the will and tenacity to devise objects to give him the edge and harvest any animal he wishes.

Call it "controlled" danger in the harvesting of DG done effeciently but the danger is still present and exists.

Would we all be hunting if there was an extremely high chance of being gravely injured?? Unless we had no alternatives, probably not.

I have no remorse regarding the proper use of "high powered guns", indeed I think they enable me to be a better hunter if I master these tools.The fellows I discussed this with were unimpressed as they left on their tight schedules with their modern supremely efficient tools of business such as cars,laptop computers, cell phones, blackberries, et al.

These dudes dismissed the limitations of man made devices entirely.Its the man+device union that rocks not the components.Hunting DG is an excellent example.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #89166 - 17/11/07 02:11 PM

Quote:

9threexfifty7-


It is that challenge that would make me hunt DG. We cannot personally justify the harvest of hunting DG by using the meat, thus we seem to hunt DG for the true sport of the hunt.

DG is an excellent example.



I hunt as I feel I am a part of the stewardship of a valuable God-given asset. I "justify" the hunt by making sure folks know I enjoy being part of maintaining a sustainable yield harvest of all game I shoot.

Personally, I do not place predators in as high regard as I do game/meat animals. Predators compete with me and mine in the management of game animals, and it is my philosophy that as human predators increase, natural predators should decrease.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
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Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #89168 - 17/11/07 02:20 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9threexfifty7-


It is that challenge that would make me hunt DG. We cannot personally justify the harvest of hunting DG by using the meat, thus we seem to hunt DG for the true sport of the hunt.

DG is an excellent example.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I hunt as I feel I am a part of the stewardship of a valuable God-given asset. I "justify" the hunt by making sure folks know I enjoy being part of maintaining a sustainable yield harvest of all game I shoot.

Personally, I do not place predators in as high regard as I do game/meat animals. Predators compete with me and mine in the management of game animals, and it is my philosophy that as human predators increase, natural predators should decrease.
*******************************************************
I agree. Predators compete for game.I do not eat the meat of predators or varmints and do not feel we should eradicate them,just selectively cull them to maintain a balance with their natural prey.Ultimately mankind will determine what lies or dies, what survives and what becomes extinct. We need to do so wisely.

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (17/11/07 02:21 PM)

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #89184 - 18/11/07 01:37 AM

Is the phrase "dangerous safari" just sensationalism??

The Drug Rep fellows I was conversing with saw no danger in hunting DG due to the supposed infinite powers of the "high powered gun" used on the game hunted.

Should "most exciting" Safari be used instead?

Dunno about others here but if I am being chased around by muliton creatures bent on turning me into toejam and all I have to prevent that is my running ability and shooting skills with a piece of metaltubing/wood and a few bullets---

That certainly seems dangerous to me!!

Am I off base here??

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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EricD
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Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #89188 - 18/11/07 02:16 AM

A couple of years ago in Zimbabwe, I was with a PH who was only a few meters from becoming "toe-jam" due to a charging tuskless cow. The only reason he survived was his quick reaction, shooting skills, and luck. There is definitely danger involved.

Sneaking into cow herds to check if there are any shootable tuskless amongst them is certainly not danger free, as they are much more likely to get pissed off than bulls are IMO. I think this is partially due to there being calves in such herds, with the mothers and "aunts" thus being extra protective. When you are only 10 meters or so away from these cows, in the dense jesse, it only takes a bit of swirling wind to make things go very wrong.

Erik

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: EricD]
      #89204 - 18/11/07 06:46 AM

To me the point is that while there certainly IS or CAN BE danger involved, it is not the guaranteed physical contact that goes along with a career or even hobby of bronc riding or general stock work and the general garden run "happy hour" cocktail sucker knows it, and when some silk suit globe trotter tries to send the balloon up every time he talks about his last hunt he looks like a buffoon and makes hunters in-general look silly, too.

Though some hunters certainly have been maimed and killed by dangerous game, such incidents are really rare, and when hunters try to convince the non-hunting crowd that they walk the knife edge every time they hunt they are really pushing it.

In my opinion, hunters frequently overblow the dangers involved in order to make themselves seem like heroes. A bit of understatement might go farther in getting the point across to the non-hunting crowd, or better yet, a good humor education provided about the value of even "dangerous game" hunting.

Remember, MANY faux leopard hatband photo safari types get charged every year, too, and though there are cases of injury and even death, they too are rare. Some are backed up by "high powered rifles", but some are not.

I apologize for what may seem as an unimpressed attitude. Maybe my perspective is skewed by where I live. Here in logging country injuries from minor to very serious indeed are simply the way of life. Every year men suffer catastrophic injuries and nearly each year, sometimes more than once, we lose a man we all know to the woods; a tree, a machine, a mistake.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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EricD
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Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #89213 - 18/11/07 09:46 AM

9ThreeXFifty7,

I completely agree with you. As I mentioned, there can be danger involved, but that is not the rule. Far from it. Unfortunately, as you pointed out, some people try to stretch the truth when telling others about their hunts. Be it in an internet report, or between buddies. However, it seems to me that this is usually quite obvious, and is often exposed in the end.

There are certainly many other occupations and hobbies that are far more likely to be dangerous than "Dangerous Game" hunting. Be it logging as you mentioned, diving, law enforcement, military service etc etc.

The important thing with hunting, be it for DG, PG, or even neighbourhood squirrels, is to have fun, and not do it to "prove" something or to show off.

Erik

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: EricD]
      #89218 - 18/11/07 10:24 AM

Erik, thank you.

Quote:

There are certainly many other occupations and hobbies that are far more likely to be dangerous than "Dangerous Game" hunting. Be it logging as you mentioned, diving, law enforcement, military service etc etc. Erik



When a nordmann leaves out skiing from this list, you know he is a master of devastating understatement!!

This one is mine, not acquired due to skiing or dangerous game hunting. It is, unfortunately, a staple supply at the local pharmacy...



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Shackleton
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Reged: 11/08/07
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Loc: Iowa
Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #89228 - 18/11/07 03:28 PM

While not necessarily the most "dangerous" safari, maybe the most HAZARDOUS hunt would be a small game hunt in dangerous game country-sure you should have a heavy backup in situations like that, but I'm sure there have been rabbit hunters carrying a rimfire in bear country-Probably a lot more dangerous than chasing buff with a .577,

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"I do not kill with my gun, he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart."--Stephen King

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EricD
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Reged: 27/02/04
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Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #89239 - 19/11/07 01:23 AM

Quote:

Erik, thank you.

Quote:

There are certainly many other occupations and hobbies that are far more likely to be dangerous than "Dangerous Game" hunting. Be it logging as you mentioned, diving, law enforcement, military service etc etc. Erik



When a nordmann leaves out skiing from this list, you know he is a master of devastating understatement!!

This one is mine, not acquired due to skiing or dangerous game hunting. It is, unfortunately, a staple supply at the local pharmacy...





I also left out mountain biking.

Btw, what's going on in that picture of yours?

Dare I ask if it's some kinky S&M thing? Is there a girl dressed in a black "Catwoman" suit behind the camara?

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Marrakai
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Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: EricD]
      #89244 - 19/11/07 01:44 AM

Quote:

Most Dangerous Safari?


How 'bout acting as Mark Sullivan's offsider (ie client!) on a buffalo hunt!

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: EricD]
      #89249 - 19/11/07 03:22 AM

Quote:

Btw, what's going on in that picture of yours?



Head/neck traction unit for damaged cervical disks.

Does Catwoman work on necks, too?

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Most Dangerous Safari??? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #89254 - 19/11/07 04:32 AM

9ThreexFifty7

I could NOT agree more with your analogies...your dead on...Keep up the good work

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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