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Ripp
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Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana
      #88029 - 31/10/07 02:43 AM

FYI--thought you might find this interesting--From the SCI news letter--with this closure and S Africa doing away with their lion operations--the cost of a lion hunt is going to explode--IMHO--

Ripp


Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana
The hunting season has just ended in Botswana, but SCI has learned that all lion hunting in the future has been suspended by the government. According to sources, the suspension has nothing to do with trophy hunting. The main problem is the unsustainable killing of lions that depredate livestock. SCI has organized and will be attending the annual African Wildlife Consultative Forum, which takes place in two weeks in Mozambique. Wildlife officials from Botswana and many other African nations, along with representatives of the hunting industry, will be attending this year’s meeting to coordinate and discuss issues relevant to the hunting industry. The closure of hunting for lions in Botswana will be discussed and we hope to have more information for you at that time.

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: Ripp]
      #88060 - 31/10/07 01:17 PM

Sounds a bit suspect as to their long term plans. Nothing to do with trophy hunting yet they have suspended all lion hunting including trophy hunting. Surely if the main concern was too many PAC lion kills they would suspend that alone???

What chance do you think that a moratorium on all lion hunting will be attempted?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Ripp
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: NitroX]
      #88074 - 31/10/07 02:40 PM

I feel it is a very real possibility. I remember reading in one of Craig Boddington's articles where he stated he felt lion hunting could be over as soon as 5 to 10 years..period.. in today's "politically correct" society.. and the corrupt goverments being paid off by groups like the International Fund for Animals..the threat of closing lion hunting is a very real possibility--all one has to do is look at this and Kenya..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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larcher
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: Ripp]
      #88193 - 03/11/07 03:49 AM

A well informed reporter in France ask me about the lion closing in Botswana and what was said on the net.

His opinion is radically different: there'll be elections for the president, and the son of the current president has all the chances to be elected. He is wanting to give precedence to the Ecotourism. Hunting isn't very Politically correct and impede Eco tourism. The closing of the lion could be the first step to closing hunting in Botswana.
Weird, isn't it?



--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."


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Charles_Helm
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: larcher]
      #88210 - 04/11/07 05:31 AM

I have read that Ian Khama has close ties to a video safari company and that his desires lie there rather than with hunting safaris, but it is all second hand 'Net info, no hard facts.

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Some pictures from Namibia

Some pictures from Zimbabwe

An Elephant Story


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larcher
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: Charles_Helm]
      #88482 - 08/11/07 09:09 AM

Charles

Is Ian Khama the supposed next president?

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."


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Charles_Helm
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: larcher]
      #88495 - 08/11/07 02:28 PM

That's what I understand.

From Wikipedia (use with caution -- I have read the same information elsewhere):


Lieutenant General Seretse Khama Ian Khama (or Ian a Sêrêtsê; born 1953) is the Vice President of Botswana and the Paramount Chief of the Bamangwato tribe. He is the firstborn son of Sir Seretse Khama, the country's foremost independence leader who was President from 1966 to 1980, and Lady Ruth Williams Khama.

President Festus Mogae intends to resign in April 2008, at which point Khama will become the fourth president of the Republic of Botswana. The next general election is planned for October 2009.

--------------------
Some pictures from Namibia

Some pictures from Zimbabwe

An Elephant Story


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shakari
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: Charles_Helm]
      #88509 - 08/11/07 11:21 PM

Botswana in many ways is one of the most enlightened countries in Africa. There's far less corruption and/or crime than many African countries. I've never met Ian Khama but I do know a bit about him through a third party. I'm told he's not particularly anti hunting but he is very conservation minded. - My guess is that this Lion ban is pretty much what it is claimed and appears to be.

Don't forget that this isn't the first time that Botswana has banned Lion hunting. The last time (if I remember correctly) had pretty much the same stated reasons but 'rumour' had it that at least part of the reason was that some of the concession holders had overshot their quota and then tried to pass some of the overshot animals off as being shot elsewhere as what might be described as PAC animals. - They got caught and shortly afterwards a blanket ban was introduced. When the ban was lifted, some dumb suckers decided it was worth paying a premium price to hunt Botswana Lion. I believe the top price paid was something like US$148K.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (08/11/07 11:31 PM)


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EricD
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: shakari]
      #88527 - 09/11/07 02:14 AM

Quote:

I've never met Ian Khama but I do know a bit about him through a third party. I'm told he's not particularly anti hunting but he is very conservation minded. - My guess is that this Lion ban is pretty much what it is claimed and appears to be.




I've been told by several knowledgeable people that Khama has business interests (photosafari stuff or something?) together with an American(?) "conservationist" who is definitely anti-hunting, and that this has rubbed off a bit on Khama. I don't recall his name offhand, but I'm sure an internet search would sniff it up quickly.


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shakari
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: EricD]
      #88532 - 09/11/07 03:15 AM

Erik,

Could well be true, I'm certainly told he donated some Rhino to a private reserve a year or so ago..... which could mean something or nothing. Either way, I'm glad to say, Botswana is going the right way where Elephant permits are concerned. They're issuing an ever increasing number of permits and types of permits. Earlier this year, I had 15 permits at the same time and all it took to get those permits was three phone calls and 24 hours later I had them in my hands.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (09/11/07 03:23 AM)


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Charles_Helm
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: shakari]
      #88566 - 09/11/07 01:17 PM

From The Hunting Report:

Botswana Closes Lion Hunting
(posted October 26, 2007)

The southern African country of Botswana has abruptly suspended all lion hunting again, ostensibly because of concerns over the number of lions being killed in defense of livestock in certain areas of the country. I have that from Sarel van der Merwe, Chair of the African Lion Working Group. "As a precautionary measure, the Department has taken a decision not to issue any lion hunting quota until further notice," van der Merwe writes in a press release that crossed my desk this morning.

This is the second time that Botswana has closed lion hunting. The first closure was in 2002, and it lasted until December 2005, at which time a minimal harvest of one cat per concession was authorized. No one we spoke with this morning was willing to speculate on when - or if - this closure will be lifted.

"We are compiling a response to the minister's order," says Debbie Peake of Mochaba Developments in Maun. "We want to be sure they have good information about the status of lions in this country."

As this is written, we understand Botswana outfitters are contacting all of their lion clients to see how they want to handle bookings for 2008 and beyond. The worry at this point is where the reduction in hunting opportunity in Botswana is going to end. Already, quotas on most animals, except for elephant, have been gradually reduced in recent years. One observer this morning called the move a "gradual throttling of the hunting industry." Looming in the background is the imminent naming of Ian Khama as President of Botswana. Khama has said publicly he intends to close hunting altogether when he becomes the nation's fourth president next April.

On the bright side, closing hunting is not a foregone conclusion by any means. For one thing, sustainable use of wildlife resources in Botswana is official national policy, and hundreds of thousands of Botswana citizens directly profit from sustainable use. Trying to close hunting by presidential decree could create a political firestorm. Then there is the "problem" of Botswana's elephant population. Botswana has so many elephants it simply can't halt the harvest of jumbo. In fact, while quotas on other animals have been reduced recently, elephant quota has been increased. What may be emerging here is a smaller, highly specialized hunting industry focused largely on elephant hunting.

In next month's issue, we will have much more analysis and news to pass along. In the meantime, if you have a lion hunt booked in Botswana, get in touch with your outfitter.

[Emphasis added]

From another board (2005):

Quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
I was at school with Ian Khama and his views haven't changed much. He is King, Vice President & Comander of the defence forces (Police Army and Air wing). At present he is happy to let someone else be "president" and the fall guy if anything goes wrong but there are rumours he might run for President. If he does, by by safari hunting.( hunting for the locals will continue)

Botswana doesn't need the money- they have large gold reserves that remain un-mined. Ian's Father rekoned they should keep that for the future when the dimonds ran out...

Botswana is the only country in Africa with an anual Budget surpluss which they lend to the world Bank! Technically they are better off financially than the USA!




Quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
Vice President Seretse Ian Khama is personally anti-hunting and is influenced heavily by Derek Joubert (an anti-hunting activist and film maker). Some of the dual-use concessions are now controlled by anti-hunters, including Joubert, and hunting is no longer allowed.

Botswana is perhaps the only country whose wildlife might fare relatively well under a no-hunting policy. The country is wealthy by African standards, is not corrupt, and has strong anti-poaching activities. The most severe problem is that there is already an over-population of elephants that will need to be dealt with on a continuing basis.

Hunting is an important source of income and employment, but is nowhere near a "billion dollors" per year business.




2004:

Quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
IF, and it's a big IF, they can work out a program where you can accurately age lions in the field, then Dr. Packer's paper basically says that you can hunt all the 6+ year old lions you want -- without having a negative affect on the remaining lion populations of younger males, females and cubs.

That sounds like great news for hunters.

The kind of scientific research from a creditable researcher that CITES (or Kenya) can't ignore.

This probably won't make much difference in Botswana, since Dereck Joubert is the de facto wildlife official and Ian Khama's buddy (and business partner).

Regards,

Terry




[Sorry to bring posts from another board, but this is where I got the info I remembered a bit incorrectly about possible business ties and I had not seen the same speculation here.]

--------------------
Some pictures from Namibia

Some pictures from Zimbabwe

An Elephant Story


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EricD
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: Charles_Helm]
      #88579 - 09/11/07 06:43 PM

Quote:

Vice President Seretse Ian Khama is personally anti-hunting and is influenced heavily by Derek Joubert (an anti-hunting activist and film maker).Some of the dual-use concessions are now controlled by anti-hunters, including Joubert, and hunting is no longer allowed.




That was the guy I was thinking of. I seem to recall that he is especially interested in lion "conservation"? Which may be why lion is first on Khamas list...


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Ripp
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: EricD]
      #88593 - 10/11/07 12:53 AM

I find it most unfortunate in the ignorance that persists regarding hunting. Perfect example is Kenya--the elephant population in that country is now less then 1/2 of what it was before hunting stopped in 1978.. Hunting is very valuable to the preservation of the species everywhere but no more so than in Africa--if the species had no intrinsic value.. the locals realize this as well and there goes the species... hopefully someone with a bit of common sense will see this and put things back the way they need to be..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Charles_Helm
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: Ripp]
      #88606 - 10/11/07 02:13 AM

One more older article from The Hunting Report:

DATELINE: BOTSWANA
News Analysis
The Darker Implications
Of Closing Lion Hunting
Lion hunting in Botswana is not to be reopened. Ian Khama has made it known that he disfavors lion hunting by tourist safari hunters and will not let it be reopened. He is the Vice President of Botswana, the son of Botswana’s first President at the close of the colonial period, and he is expected to become President at the next election. He is a close friend and reportedly a business partner of Derek Joubert, an anti-hunting videographer who has been calling for the closure of all hunting in Botswana for many years, particularly lion hunting. Vice President Khama and Joubert operate a photographic safari lodge together.

The Vice President’s decision to close lion hunting was obviously a personal decision, rather than one based on good socio-eco-biology. A recent lion workshop demonstrated that past lion hunting has been of no significant biological impact, but has been beneficial to lion management and survival. We expect the closure to have a dramatic impact on the long-term survivability of lions in Botswana, as the safari industry has been the principal source of direct and indirect revenue for lion conservation in that country. The hunting has also been the incentive for much of the lion conservation measures.

In addition to lion-hunting license fees that will totally cease to exist, the solvency of the whole safari hunting industry will be weakened. Another of the big-ticket “Big Five” can’t be taken. The hundreds of thousands of dollars in lion conservation funding that has come from safari hunters, their conservation organizations and hunting operators will dry up in due course. We know of well over one hundred thousand dollars in lion research revenue from Dallas Safari Club, Conservation Force, Safari Club International, Rann Safaris and private individuals such as Steve Chancellor in the past few years that are not likely to be duplicated. Millions of dollars have been put into communal-based natural resource development partly dependent upon revenue from lion hunting. It is one more nail in the coffin of those programs now and in the future.

A striking example of the measure of the loss is the rejection of a $2.5 million dollar proposal for additional conservation and management revenue for Botswana’s lions. Conservation Force created a special lion conservation fund called “Lions Forever Fund.” That fund, which paid for the recent lion workshop in Botswana, was conceived by conservationist Steve Chancellor, who was to be the single most important contributor. The fund was designed to provide more than $500,000 a year for a minimum of five years exclusively for lion conservation in Botswana. The Botswana Ministry actually requested and received money from the fund for its recent lion workshop. The more than $40,000 that was spent came from Steve Chancellor, Houston Safari Club, Conservation Force and, separately, from the Botswana Wildlife Management Association (that country’s PH Association). The fund was to be administered without charge and in partnership with the most prominent local Botswana NGOs (Non-Governmental Organizations). All of this and more has now been whisked away by Ian Khama at a whim. Botswana lion hunting is to remain closed.

This has been coming for some time. The tourist lion-hunting quota has been ridiculously low for nearly a decade. It was only recently increased to 30 per annum before being suddenly closed a year ago. It has been a bizarre situation from the inception. The number of lions killed for problem animal control has been as much as ten times greater than the safari-hunting take. Now, more local people will perceive lions to be a threat, nuisance and incompatible liability. Far fewer will perceive them as revenue-generating assets to be sustainably used.

For nearly a decade, the hunting community has been chasing false issues in Botswana to keep lion hunting open. Now, all excuses have run out. The Lions Forever Fund by itself would have provided $16,666.66 per annum per lion harvested through safari hunting. (30 lions = $500,000). That would have been in addition to the license fees and all related incentives. Leopard, one of the most abundant cats in the world, is expected to follow and its quota is being cut. Even community development and self-determination are not sacred.

The loss of lion hunting in Botswana is not a great loss to the hunting community in an absolute sense, for there was only a quota of 30 lions when it was closed a year ago. However, it is the loss of an experience unmatchable in quality. It is a loss to those of us who have come to love Botswana, its people and its wildlife. It is a loss to Botswana and to the lions themselves. No one gives lions in the wild a higher value than those tourist hunters who hunt them today.

It looks like this may be one business in which they are both involved or associated:


http://www.selindareserve.com/

Derek Joubert has made many of the National Geographic documentaries that I have enjoyed, and I do not fault both Ian Khama, who reportedly did a great deal to halt poaching, or Joubert, for their views on conservation. However, I hate to see Botswana closed as Kenya was. Maybe there is enough other wealth in Botswana to keep the wildlife populations healthy without the dollars from hunters, at least while Khama is in charge, but who knows? And what will happen if elephant populations are not managed?

--------------------
Some pictures from Namibia

Some pictures from Zimbabwe

An Elephant Story


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Ripp
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: Charles_Helm]
      #88652 - 10/11/07 12:46 PM

In addition to the unfortunate consequences that will likely befall the lions--it will be curious to see what other countries will be doing with regards to lion hunting in the future. With Botswana closing and South Africa shutting down the "canned hunts".. the additional pressure will be greatly increased..which in turn will likely force other countries to change their quotas as well.

Boddington stated last year he felt lion hunting would be the next to go of the big 5 as a huntable species..the way it is starting to shape up he may have been dead on..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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shakari
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: Ripp]
      #88908 - 13/11/07 08:39 PM

You can never predict what'll happen in Africa, but my guess is that there won't be a hunting ban in Botswana...... Ian Khama is a very poweful man now and if he wanted to ban hunting, he could easily do so now and wouldn't have to wait until he become President..... in fact, it'd be better for him to have someone else to blame. Once he's in charge officially, the blame of making something like 200,000 people unemployed the blame falls immediatly on his shoulders. - Don't forget that tourism and hunting is the third largest earner of hard currency for the country.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (14/11/07 05:42 AM)


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shakari
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: shakari]
      #89083 - 16/11/07 07:58 AM

FWIW and with a hope that Kathie doesn't mind my stealing her post from elsewhere:

Botswana: Save the Lion


Mmegi/The Reporter (Gaborone)

14 November 2007
Posted to the web 15 November 2007

Staff Writer


The Department of Wildlife and National Parks in the Ministry of Environment, Wildlife and Tourism (MEWT) has suspended the hunting of lions.

In a statement released on Monday, the department expressed concern that to date, lions continue to be killed at unsustainable levels.


The department noted that since 2005, it has been allowing a sustainable off-take quota of 1 per cent of the lion population targeting mature males only.

Additionally, farmers are permitted under the Wildlife and National Parks Act to protect their livestock from predation.

The cumulative total of trophy hunts and lions killed annually as problem animals is about 3.5 per cent from an estimated population base of 3, 000 individuals.

"Female lions in particular fall victim to killing of problem animals since they do the hunting. Consequently, cubs are left behind without protection and almost always die.


Government has therefore taken a precautionary measure of removing the lion from the quota while this situation is being redressed.

"The lion populations of Kweneng, Gantsi and Kgalagadi Districts are severely affected and there are preliminary indications that they may be experiencing a decline," observed the statement.

The department has appealed to the nation to join hands to protect the lion as the species is an integral part of our natural heritage which is among the keystone species within Botswana's ecosystems and a major tourism attraction.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: Lion Hunting Closure in Botswana [Re: shakari]
      #89482 - 22/11/07 11:27 AM

SCI report on the wire today:-
Botswana Lions and Tanzania Fees - Update from the African Wildlife Consultative Forum
The SCI sponsored African Wildlife Consultative Forum finished up on Friday, November 16, in Pemba, Mozambique. This meeting brought together government officials, outfitters and others in the hunting industry from all over southern Africa. Botswana’s zero lion quota remains in effect at this time, however there was positive discussion between government officials and hunting industry representatives. The government said that it had to reduce the overall harvest of lions because of increased killing of lions that are causing agricultural damage. Tanzania’s fee increases also remain in effect, although SCI was informed that talks between industry and government are going on at high levels. The Tanzania PH organizations represented at the AWCF emphasized that although they would like support for their position that the increases are unconstitutional, the solutions to the situation will only be found internally and direct foreign pressure will likely be received unfavorably. On other issues, demand for elephant ivory is increasing in internal markets within China, the most significant user of ivory. Poaching and illegal shipments appear to be occurring in response to the demand. Increase in illegal take of rhino horn is also occurring and alleged sport hunting has been implicated in the illegal trade. SCI will review the situation. Tanzania, Mozambique, Malawi, Zambia and Namibia requested assistance from international hunting organizations for developing national lion strategies. This issue may be critical for sustainable use of lions since Kenya proposed listing lions at CITES 14 and may do so again at CITES 15.

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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