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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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chuck375
.333 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Bolt Action Rifle performance in Zimbabwe PH exam
      #87370 - 18/10/07 02:35 PM

Anyone else seen this post? Comments?

http://www.african-hunter.com/lessons_learned.htm

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Bolt Action Rifle performance in Zimbabwe PH exam [Re: chuck375]
      #87371 - 18/10/07 06:16 PM

Yeah, that report is from several years ago, and Don Heath has partially retracted his comments on the 'wrong side' safety-catch in a subsequent African Hunter editorial, got a nasty-gram from Jeff Cooper (among others) IIRC.

Weatherby owners hate that report with a vengeance!


...but personally I wish more people had the fortitude to publish actual experiences rather than the usual manufacturer's propaganda.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Bolt Action Rifle performance in Zimbabwe PH exam [Re: Marrakai]
      #87378 - 18/10/07 08:58 PM

another vote for the heavy dbl rifle

peter


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zimhunter
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Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Bolt Action Rifle performance in Zimbabwe PH exam [Re: peter]
      #87388 - 19/10/07 12:41 AM

Clearly a biased report that believes the Mauser is the only perfect DGR action built. Have no idea what he means by the 'anti-bind rail' on the Mdl 70 as the anti bind is a slot in one of the lugs that rides over the rail. Can hardly be pulled off and thrown aside. The Brno safety is almost exactly like the Remington but the Remington is bad and the CZ is almost ok but on the wrong side. He thinks the 'flag' Mauser safety is the only one of any value but if left in the center position it allows the bolt to be inadvertantly opened especially in the barrel forward over the shoulder carry they so prefer in Africa. Judging from his reports the applicants are absolutely inept at any thing having to do with a firearm and could probably cause a rock to malfunction. I take the report with a whole SPOONFULL of salt.

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taw1126
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Reged: 24/07/07
Posts: 290
Loc: Texas
Re: Bolt Action Rifle performance in Zimbabwe PH exam [Re: zimhunter]
      #89036 - 15/11/07 02:55 PM

I've never figured out which Ruger he's talking about in that test. He references problems with the Mark II's ejector, but has a picture of the older tang safety version. Also, while he's damning the Winchester Model 70 safety he doesn't take exception to the Ruger's...and the Mark II has a very Winchester-like 3-position safety.

Anyone know for certain which Model 77 he saw ejection problems with?


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
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Re: Bolt Action Rifle performance in Zimbabwe PH exam [Re: taw1126]
      #89039 - 15/11/07 03:05 PM

I do not know "which" ejector he is referring to, but I have seen a M77MKII in which the ejector did not line up perfectly with the cut in the bolt head, causing a hesitation in the slipping of the ejector thru the slot. This resulted in first rounds not ejecting.

A slight bevel cut on the top of the ejector and on the edges of the ejector slot in the bolt head allowed reliable slipping of the ejector blade thru the bolt head and solved the problem.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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taw1126
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Reged: 24/07/07
Posts: 290
Loc: Texas
Re: Bolt Action Rifle performance in Zimbabwe PH exam [Re: 9.3x57]
      #89041 - 15/11/07 03:31 PM

Quote:

I have seen a M77MKII in which the ejector did not line up perfectly with the cut in the bolt head, causing a hesitation in the slipping of the ejector thru the slot.



That's interesting. I polished the cut in my bolts to make sure there weren't any burrs but it wasn't due to a known problem. In fact if I hadn't read that article awhile back I probably wouldn't have thought about it at all.

The M77's I have- a 7mm-08 Frontier for the boys, an Express in .30-'06 and a .375 H&H RSM for me- must be some of the absolute best buys in hunting rifles. Hard to believe Ruger could produce those features for that price.

I'd like to find one of the distributor-special stainless/walnut RSI's when they get the 7mm-08 out later this year. Next to my Winchester levers the Rugers are starting to become favorites of mine and I haven't seen any real fleas on them so far.


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Bolt Action Rifle performance in Zimbabwe PH exam [Re: taw1126]
      #89044 - 15/11/07 04:39 PM

To be honest, I think the article is, overall, a good one.

I am always a bit confused by fellows I meet from time to time who have what they think is a real killer but mollycoddle the thing and act as if a vigorous working of the bolt will wreck it. I'm not going to say that I beat up my guns, but I sure don't care if they get worn and I do shove them around a bit as soon as I buy them, making sure they feed reliably and function as they should. That means hard functioning with the ammo intended to be used. Many is the time I've found rifles that feed well with pristine ammo but as soon as the cases get scuffed from repeatedly being worked from the magazine the critter chokes.

I have to agree with the general tone of the article which as I read it is that many factory rifles aren't suitable for much as they get spewed out of the factory. Almost every rifle and pistol I buy needs work. The Rugers I've latched on to have been overall the most reliable factory guns I have bought, but even they need various things done to them to make them what they should be. They are cheap, though Ruger has just taken a fairly hefty price hike and from what I'm told more is to come.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Re: Bolt Action Rifle performance in Zimbabwe PH exam [Re: 9.3x57]
      #89050 - 15/11/07 07:17 PM

I would agree that I would never take a Weatherby or Remington to Africa as a DG rifle-just could trust 'em.

The new model Ruger and the Win 70 would be just fine after some work but I have a smith basically bed and tune the action of all my Winchesters and my few Ruger bolts. The three position safety is ok but can hang up on brush and swing either way.You gotta have an educated thumb to feel it and know where its at without looking!! I've also had the bolt suddenly opened by brush snagging the safety and the bolt!! Can't stand the standard trigger in the Rugers and replace all of them with Timney triggers.Win 70's are my favorite bolts.

I possess but don't like the safety function on the Brno 602 action cause its ass-backwards with the safety going to safe with forward motion.I will admit that one of my favorite mauser safety conversions is a short throw safety on/up and safety off/down lever on the LEFT side of the action. It is quite natural to use the thumb to depress the lever and remove the safety lightning fast.

What ever the action you prefer you need to make sure it functions at warp speed or leave it home. Your life isn't worth loosing over a rifle that DOESNT WORK when required!!!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Bolt Action Rifle performance in Zimbabwe PH exam [Re: hoppdoc]
      #89060 - 16/11/07 12:51 AM

Regarding the Ruger M77MKII ejector issue again, I seem to remember reading many years ago that the early Winchester Model 70's were known to possess less-than-100% reliability due to a similar occaisional failure of the ejector to clear the bolt head slot in time to strike the cartridge case.

The design seems inherently prone to this problem when compared to a 98 Mauser. The Mauser ejector "hangs out there in space" and can collect an abundance of muck before its action is impeded. The Ruger and I believe the M70 Winchester operate within a slot in the receiver which seems to beg to be clogged with dust. At any rate they must both rise at an angle to catch the slot in the bolt head and though they preclude the need to slot the left locking lug they do not add to the reliability of the action. Interestingly, tho possessing a springloaded extractor, my old .375 SAKO with its Mauser-type slotted lug and "hard" ejector has never failed me under any circumstances and that rifle has seen such conditions that I have literally had to hold it by the sling and run a garden hose over it to wash the mud off of it after a day's efforts in the field.

That Win 70's are known for their good performance overall would seem to imply that either the company mastered the problem or possibly even mere continued use polished and loosened the surfaces of the ejectors on guns in service to eliminate any binding that might otherwise have existed. The Ruger can be adjusted by polishing the ejector, cutting a slight knife edge over the top of it to ensure exit from the receiver slot and entry in the bolt head slot, and of course a new ejector spring can be fitted if one exists. Does Wolffe Springs make one?

By the way, on arrival home, every rifle I buy gets degreased with acetone and the action vigorously functioned and the trigger dry-fired at least 200 times before I even bother taking it to my range. A noticeable number of headaches are be both avoided and found using this approach. And once oiled such a prepared action feeds slick as a lie thru Willy.

Personally, I cannot fault this fellow's piece for promoting original Mausers and high quality duplicates. I also cannot see where a single "improved" Mauser action improves one single feature of functioning over the 98 except possibly in the one feature described below. Bad copies are just that, but no post-98 action I am familiar with possesses anything like the dead reliable status of a 98. And just to be fair, any unknown or new-to-owner 98 SHOULD BE VIGOROUSLY TESTED BEFORE BEING RELIED UPON. His bit on the use of different cartridges than those originally intended for a specific magazine in 98's is spot on, too. Every original Mauser magazine was designed for a specific cartridge and the bugs worked out before production. Essentially, there are no "generic boxes" fitted to Original Mausers.

One arguable improvement, if it can be called that, was made in some production Mausers and that was the grinding of the extractor to slip over a cartridge intentionally or otherwise dropped into the chamber. A bolt mistakenly dropped on top of such a round on an unaltered Mauser results in the instant creation of a slightly butt-heavy club and can be a challenge in the field to return said club back to its original status as a rifle. I drop my rounds into the magazine and never up the spout in any rifle I own so as to avoid the possibility of habit causing havoc when I am using one of my unaltered Mausers.

I have no need for a "dangerous game rifle" per se and probably never will, but I do have some thousands of dollars of livestock I have an all-to-frequent need to protect with a rifle and after losing a shot here and there due to troubles with rifle functioning I can unequivocally state that every single problem that cost me a shot on a stock-killer was with a an "improved" Mauser-type rifle and caused by a modification from the original Mauser 98 design.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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gator
.224 member


Reged: 03/12/07
Posts: 41
Loc: Florida
Re: Bolt Action Rifle performance in Zimbabwe PH exam [Re: 9.3x57]
      #90514 - 04/12/07 02:34 PM

I've shot a bunch of buffalo, and a 460 works quite well. It's a very good gun.

One very good point he makes is that The lesson though remains.

Cycle each round through the chamber of your rifle before you put it in the magazine or your cartridge belt. Reloads especially but even the best factory ammo may be damaged or not quite what it seems at first glance.

A lot of people don't check their rounds like that and they should.


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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Bolt Action Rifle performance in Zimbabwe PH exam [Re: 9.3x57]
      #90557 - 04/12/07 11:09 PM

Quote:

early Winchester Model 70's were known to possess less-than-100% reliability due to a similar occaisional failure of the ejector to clear the bolt head slot in time to strike the cartridge case......That Win 70's are known for their good performance overall would seem to imply that either the company mastered the problem




One of the first things that custom rifle builders do is replace the entire extractor claw on M70s. I believe that it is because they are prone to bending, due to being made out of cheap steel. One only needs to look at the number of machining operations required to make a M70 operate flawlessly (i.e. to the very limit of its design capabilities) to question whether "adequate" is sufficient on a PH rifle, the job of which is after all to save lives. Just ask d'Arcy Echolls...

For what its worth, IMHO, I don't think that the Mauser M98 is faultless either, although it does have a proven reputation. Personally, I would pick a Heym express - if I had the cash


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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Bolt Action Rifle performance in Zimbabwe PH exam [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #90566 - 05/12/07 12:25 AM

I do have a problem messing around with old mauser rifles. As stated previously you must feed from the mag for them to function.Try to slip a round into the action and close the bolt hard and your screwed. Not so with my other mauser knock off actions.Never had an extractor failure with a Win 70 either.I'm sure Brownell probably offers a quality grade extractor for Win 70's.

Anyone out there have extractor/feeding failures with Win Mdl 70's??

Is the Heym or Mauser factory rifle the best mauser type action out there short of a custom gun?? What makes 'em better??

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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