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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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chrispie
.275 member


Reged: 30/01/04
Posts: 67
Loc: New England, USA
458 win.mag on DG
      #8671 - 11/02/04 05:39 AM

has anyone hunted DG with a 458 win. i'm planing a safari for either 2005 or 2006 depending on when my hunting partner can brake free. i already own a scoped 416 rigby with a mauser action, a 458 win.mag SxS, and just recenty made a decison on ordering a B.Searcy in 470NE with is on my other post, the game i plan on hunting is kudu , warthog, gemsbok, and cape buffalo. the plains game will be in SA, and the cape buffalo will be in zambabwe. I figure i'm going to bring two rifles with me, one for the plains game and one for the buffalo, i know i will want to shoot the 470, but i have been dieing to try out the 458win. on DG also. any suggestion on this caliber? thanks

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: chrispie]
      #8673 - 11/02/04 05:54 AM

Tell us more about your 458 Win SXS. What loads have you tried and how does she shoot?

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: chrispie]
      #8684 - 11/02/04 07:35 AM

My experience with it is from the early 80's. I've shot a number of animals with it and never saw all the problems everybody wanting a new rifle see. I notice that Hornady has a 500 grain bullet at 2250 (advertised). If it is true their is nothing it won't do.

As to a Double Rifle in 458WM, that is different. What is the loading that you have to use? That will tell you if you have a DG Rifle or a souped up 45-70. I also do not trust rimless cartridges, especially not in a DG Rifle.

What kind do you have? You know that if you like the rifle you can get it rechambered for very little to a 450 3.25 or a 450#2. Both of them are the equal to the 470.

There is no need to take the 458SxS and the 470. Neither is a particularly good choice for plainsgame. A 375 could do double duty for the Buff and is a pretty decent plainsgame rifle also.

I think if it was me, and I liked the 458, I would rechamber it and skip the 470. Use the money for 5 more Cape Buffalo.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: mickey]
      #8733 - 11/02/04 11:53 AM

If you use a proper handload it surly will work, but it would be my last choice for a big bore rifle, much prefering the 416 in a Rigby or a Rem....and if I wanted a 458 it would certainly be the new CZ in the American style in 458 Lott that has become available....

I know of several failures that came about with the use of Factory ammo in the .458....It is and always will be a piss poor cartridge in design, a factory bu bu deluxe by a bunch of bean counters...The Lott is what it should have been from the get go....

I feel one has to load it a bit hot to make it a good rifle and that may or may not cause problems,but where there is that much smoke, there must be some fire IMO and it got that bad rap on its own, no one made all that stuff up, perhaps some added a bit to it, who knows and who cares...

As many nice guns as you have, why would you worry with a questionable caliber that so many folks do not like is my question...

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JoeR
.224 member


Reged: 19/01/04
Posts: 41
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: chrispie]
      #8735 - 11/02/04 12:20 PM

Chrispie, the 458 WM is a fine round. Do not believe the naysayers, for with good loads, it is a great DG caliber. Some, like Ray, prefer the 416 Rigby, but Harry Selby himself sold his 416 Rigby which was immortalized in Ruark's book and replaced it with a 458 WM feeling it was a more appropriate rifle for his use as a PH. I kinda think he knew what he was doing.

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chrispie
.275 member


Reged: 30/01/04
Posts: 67
Loc: New England, USA
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: JoeR]
      #8739 - 11/02/04 12:54 PM

well, i do have a great love with firearms, and do own a far share of them in a variety of calibers, but as of yet i have only hunted North American game. i finally convinced my hunting partner to go to Africa with me. and i just like to get feed back from experianced hunters and gun enthusiasts that have putten the time in. and i just like the 458win. thank you all for your inputs.

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: chrispie]
      #8746 - 11/02/04 01:48 PM

chrispie

you never said what make Double you have in 458 Winnie?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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chrispie
.275 member


Reged: 30/01/04
Posts: 67
Loc: New England, USA
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: mickey]
      #8850 - 12/02/04 01:23 PM

it was my grand fathers cogswell that i just got recently, i also was left an old bolt action rifle that i have no idea what it is or what caliber . the shotguns he had have vanished, I'm still trying to track who took them.(a family menber with no rights to them of course), i also got a original 1942 BMW motorcycle with a side car, anyone interested?

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: chrispie]
      #8854 - 12/02/04 01:56 PM

Your Grandfather had a Coggie in 458? Are they new barrels? How cool would it be to cruise through Africa with a motorcycle with sidecar. A couple of Double rifles sticking out the side. Is it a military version?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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475Guy
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Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: mickey]
      #8855 - 12/02/04 01:58 PM

Don't forget the 30 Cal LMG mounted on it also.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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deant
.224 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 47
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: mickey]
      #8892 - 13/02/04 02:47 AM

i took a buffalo and elephant with a 458 win mag in sept. It was loaded with barnes ss and xbullets 450 gr at 2150 +fps.
My first shot on the buffalo was less than ideal right up the tail pipe. He went about 50 yards and stopped ,one more to the lungs and he was done. The elephant went about 50+ yards with one shot to the lungs.
Dean

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: deant]
      #8901 - 13/02/04 07:55 AM

JoeR,
I admitted it was fine with a good handload so don't misquote or misunderstand me..It's just not what I would buy if I needed a DGR, it is a poorly designed round and always will be..The Lott is now a factory option and should be chosen over the 458 Win. IMO..

Just for the record both Harry and Mark Selby are good friends of mine and Harry NEVER gave up his 416 for a 458, he was forced at one time to purchase a 458 to use on Safari and got rid of it as soon as he could afford another 416, that's the real deal on that story.........

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ThomasEdwards
.300 member


Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: atkinson6]
      #8917 - 13/02/04 09:05 AM

...touche...thanks for posting...

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chrispie
.275 member


Reged: 30/01/04
Posts: 67
Loc: New England, USA
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: mickey]
      #8934 - 13/02/04 11:11 AM

mickey, i don't know if it is a military version, but it is very old, and need some restoring, over all its not in bad shape, it has an original sitge( not sure on the spelling) side car. it at my summer house in Santorini island, greece, if you have an e-mail i will send you some pics. and yes it would be a blast to bring to africa, i'll drive and you can sit in the side car. lol lol

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: chrispie]
      #8942 - 13/02/04 12:28 PM

chrispie

Great, you drive and I'll shoot.

We'll take a test ride through Europe. With you driving all the ladies will have to sit on my lap as you will be busy driving.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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cr500
.300 member


Reged: 11/10/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Singleton ,Australia
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: chrispie]
      #9276 - 17/02/04 08:32 PM

Using AR2206 powder in my 458 with 500gn woodleighs , I have been getting 2200+ FPS with no presure signs at all. But then ,the barrel was too long for a DG rifle (25").With other powders ,2100 fps was pushing it.

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: cr500]
      #9376 - 18/02/04 01:42 PM

cr500

Nothing wrong with a 25" barrel. I''d rather have a well balanced and pointable rifle and a long brrel than a short and stubby barrel in an awkward feeling rifle.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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cr500
.300 member


Reged: 11/10/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Singleton ,Australia
Re: 458 win.mag on DG [Re: mickey]
      #9416 - 18/02/04 06:51 PM

Mickey. You are definitley right about having a rifle which balances well and feels right. The Zastava 458 with the longish barrel and good recoil pad on a synthetic stock is the best feeling rifle I have owned for holding off hand. I took it into the shop today to sell as my next 458 will be ready soon. I made sure I got measurments of length of pull, drop at the rear, total weight. If my next 458 doesnt feel as good , then I will try to go back to my old measurements when a new stock is made.

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