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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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alaskan
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Reged: 27/08/07
Posts: 22
Loc: alaska
Which caliber
      #85371 - 10/09/07 11:49 AM

I could use some help. I am going to have a custom rifle built and am having a hard time deciding which one. I live in Alaska and would like a rifle to hunt with and use as back up for grizzles/brown bear and possible use in Africa. I have narrowed it down to 338, 375, 404 or 416. I have read alot on each caliber but still can't decide. I would like to use the heaviest bullet available in each caliber i.e. 300 grain in 338, etc.


Thanks

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bonanza
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Re: Which caliber [Re: alaskan]
      #85376 - 10/09/07 12:42 PM

I think that if you can take the recoil and like classics then the 404 Jeffery would be my choice, other wise the standard .375.

--------------------


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Re: Which caliber [Re: alaskan]
      #85379 - 10/09/07 01:05 PM

They are all great choices however when you throw Africa in the mix things change a bit--
If you plan to hunt DG, then you will need to have a .375 or larger as it is the minimum legal caliber in most countries..

Following up on that thought---as I have mentioned many times on this site..I am a .416 fan..whether its Rigby, Remington or Taylor---You can load with lighter bullets if you wish--per the Barnes reloading manual..300 gr bullets with RL 15 and get over 2900 fps or load 400 gr bullets and get 2400 plus---in addition, the increased effect on game is noticable when compared to the .375...the same can be said when comparing the 416 to a 458...

I have a Sako in .375 and really like the gun and caliber --in fact if I were to go back to Alaska to hunt Brown Bear again I would probably use it as it is a model 75 stainless with a synthetic stock.. which would work quite will if "normal" Alaska weather were to prevail..however when I head to Africa the bolt that comes with has always been the .416...

The 404 Jeffery is also a great round however I have had very little experience with it--other than firing a rifle or two chambered in it ...

Good luck with your choice-should be fun..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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ozhunter
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Re: Which caliber [Re: Ripp]
      #85436 - 11/09/07 07:00 PM

Do you hand load ?

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alaskan
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Reged: 27/08/07
Posts: 22
Loc: alaska
Re: Which caliber [Re: ozhunter]
      #85477 - 12/09/07 09:56 AM

I don't hand load right now, but I am going to start again.

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szihn
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Re: Which caliber [Re: alaskan]
      #85481 - 12/09/07 11:30 AM

I either own or have owned all in your list
I would say the 375 id the best all around rifle of the bunch.

I LOVE my 404 and my 416 too, but if I had to own just one, it would be the 375, no question.
The 404 and the 416 are "better" at 30 yds and closer on a charging animal. But they won't keep up at 150 yds and farther out. they kick harder. They don't buck the wind as well.
One of the longest shots I ever made in my life was on a moose with my 375. It does very well "way out there"
I have also hammered a few critters at 25 yds and closer with it, and it hit very hard. harder then you'd think
It beat my 338 on every count, including accuracy.
So.........
My openion?
375 H&H
You can't go wrong with one.

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JLS
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Reged: 25/07/04
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Re: Which caliber [Re: alaskan]
      #85489 - 12/09/07 12:44 PM

...I'll second the choice of .416 caliber. And don't worry about not having enough "ooomph" at over 150yds. In Zambia in '03, I had no option but to shoot a Cookson's wildebeeste at 180yds, and I also shot a Cape buffalo at a smidge over 200yds. Rifle caliber: .416 Taylor with 400gr A-Frame bullets. Both animals: DEAD RIGHT THERE!!

I also own/shoot a .375H&H,and if I were to plan on big bears, I may select the .375H&H. However, for African DG, the H&H stays home, and the 40cal goes to the Dark Continent with me.

Heck, make up one of each.

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hoppdoc
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Re: Which caliber [Re: JLS]
      #85491 - 12/09/07 12:58 PM

Personally I would do the custom rifle in 416 Rigby with a second synthetic stock for Alaska.

The 416 will obviously handle Brown Bear,Grizz and work for African DG as well.

If your shots are anticipated past 150 yds you may wish to move to a smaller longer ranging 375 caliber instead, JMHO--

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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maddenwh
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Reged: 27/07/07
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Re: Which caliber [Re: hoppdoc]
      #85541 - 13/09/07 10:35 AM

I've had or do have all those you mentioned with the exception of the .404. That's not to say that I haven't seriously considered grabbing a .404. It's really a .423 and can be loaded up to surpass its traditional ballistics. It doesn't have the sectional density that the 416 does.

That aside, I'd get them all if I were you...

But, if you have to pick one, I'd go with a 416 remington or rigby. 400 graines at 2350 is plenty for any coastal grizz, and it's slow enough that it really isn't a problem to use on smaller critters (with regards to meat damage). You can always hand load it with a 350 grain bullet. I've shot white tail, and many o pig, with it, and it's never been an issue. Recoil, for me, is not so terrible.

The 375 H&H will probably be the most popular choice among those posting their opinions, but I think the 416 makes more sense. It really nearly shoots as flat as a 300 grain 375 H&H while delivering a lot more energy and penetration. If you go with the remington instead of the rigby, you won't have problems finding ammo either.

If it weren't for the grizz issue, I'd tell you to go with the 338 win mag. It certainly does have the power to kill any bear with a well placed shot, but if you bump into a bear in the thick stuff, you'll want that 5,000 lbs of energy behind your frantically shot bullet. It shoots flatter than the 375, has almost as much energy down range as the 375 H&H, and has a good variety of bullet weights with which you could choose.

All that being said, the smart choice might be the 375 H&H, as it is a great round. However, if you can handle the recoil of the 416, go with it. It'll do anything the 375H&H will with more juice, and out 250 yards, the difference in drop is only a couple of inches.

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maddenwh
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Re: Which caliber [Re: maddenwh]
      #85542 - 13/09/07 10:48 AM

I'm going to go ahead and jump in front of some future arguements resulting from my statement that 416's shoot nearly as flat as 375's. They do. As evidence, you can check out the remington ballistics sight (I'll post it). If both rifles, 300 grain 375 and 400 grain 416, are zeroed in at 100 yards, at 300 yards there is exactly an inch more drop with the 416 as compared to the 375. Basically, your 375 H&H will drop 20 inches at 3 hunsky, and your 416 will drop 21 in. at 3 hunsky.

To summarize, go with the big boy. You can take it long just as well as the little guys.

the sight, to cite... http://www.remington.com/products/ammuni...*RS416RA*R338W2

P.S. The 338 win mad shooting a 250 grain bullet is listed on the bottom below the 375, on top, and the 416, in the middle. You'll notice that the 338 win mag actually has more energy than the 375 H&H after around 200 yards. Doesn't mean it'll have the same penetration, but it's a real killer as well.

Edited by maddenwh (13/09/07 10:53 AM)

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Ripp
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Re: Which caliber [Re: maddenwh]
      #85593 - 14/09/07 05:41 AM

That's just good strong work...Thanks for the site info


Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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WyoJoe
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Reged: 18/02/04
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Re: Which caliber [Re: alaskan]
      #85635 - 15/09/07 03:48 AM

Quote:

I could use some help. I am going to have a custom rifle built and am having a hard time deciding which one. I live in Alaska and would like a rifle to hunt with and use as back up for grizzles/brown bear and possible use in Africa. I have narrowed it down to 338, 375, 404 or 416. I have read alot on each caliber but still can't decide. I would like to use the heaviest bullet available in each caliber i.e. 300 grain in 338, etc.


Thanks



I used to live in Alaska and of the ones you mentioned the .338 and 375 will be the easiest to find ammunition for. If it were me I would get the .375 and load it with 270 gr. Triple Shocks loaded to about 2750 fps. It will unzip any bear on the planet.

--------------------
There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"

Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Which caliber [Re: WyoJoe]
      #85689 - 15/09/07 11:59 PM


I used to live in Alaska and of the ones you mentioned the .338 and 375 will be the easiest to find ammunition for. If it were me I would get the .375 and load it with 270 gr. Triple Shocks loaded to about 2750 fps. It will unzip any bear on the planet.



**The same could probably be said as to availability to ammo in Africa as well..while I agree with the use of the .375 for Alaska--that whole Africa thing has me still going a bit bigger--but hey, that's the cool part of our sport.. so many guns, so little time..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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capoward
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Reged: 09/08/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Southern California, USA
Re: Which caliber [Re: Ripp]
      #85700 - 16/09/07 02:40 AM

I don’t have rifles in any of the calibers mentioned, a .30-338 Win Mag is my largest, that said I have great personal interest in the DG calibers.

I’ve thought, after many ballistics, trajectory, and case dimension/capacity comparisons that there was something to said about the usefulness of .30, .33, .35, and .40 Newton cartridges (I understand that neither Newton nor the originator Adolph designed the .40 Newton). The .30 and .40 Newton cartridges chambered in modern SS rifles would hunt anywhere.

That said, I’ve been fanaticizing on either a .416-375 Ruger or a .423-375 Ruger wildcat cartridge as my big bore load with either a .300-375 Ruger or a .338-375 Ruger wildcat cartridge as my medium bore load as the .375 Ruger case is somewhat readily available (though mostly sold out) while the Newton cases are almost impossible to find.

The Chuck Hawks website has some interesting information that may assist in your personal decisions – here are a few hyperlinks of the many that I’ve used:

Sectional Density vs. Game Weight:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/subscribers/tables_charts_lists_page/sd_vs_game_weight.htm

Expanded Rifle Ballistics Summary:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/subscribers/tables_charts_lists_page/rifle_ballistics_summary_exp.htm

Expanded Rifle Trajectory Table:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/subscribers/tables_charts_lists_page/rifle_trajectory_table_exp.htm

Expanded Optimal Game Weight Table:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/subscribers/tables_charts_lists_page/game_range_caliber_exp.htm

Expanded and Improved Rifle Ballistics Table:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/subscribers/tables_charts_lists_page/rifle_ballistics_table2_exp.htm

Hope these are of use to you.

Edited by capoward (16/09/07 02:56 AM)

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Re: Which caliber [Re: capoward]
      #85707 - 16/09/07 03:41 AM

Quote:

I don’t have rifles in any of the calibers mentioned, a .30-338 Win Mag is my largest, that said I have great personal interest in the DG calibers.

That said, I’ve been fanaticizing on either a .416-375 Ruger or a .423-375 Ruger wildcat cartridge as my big bore load with either a .300-375 Ruger or a .338-375 Ruger wildcat cartridge as my medium bore load as the .375 Ruger case is somewhat readily available (though mostly sold out) while the Newton cases are almost impossible to find.


**You may wish to read the article I mentioned the other day that is the current issue of SCI magazine--they did neck up the .375 Ruger and were pleasantly surprised with the results--

IMHO--your 30-378 loaded with 200 grain bullets would probably do anything you need it to do for a medium gun if you had the .416 for your big bore--personally I have used a HS Precision on 300 Ultra-mag to take many plains game in Africa in addition to elk, deer and bear in Montana--Have never felt I needed more--

Boddington has stated in some of the article I have read that he felt the perfect 3 gun combo is a .338 along with a .416 or 458 depending on your tolerance for recoil.. I would certainly tend to agree ...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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capoward
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Reged: 09/08/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Southern California, USA
Re: Which caliber [Re: Ripp]
      #85708 - 16/09/07 04:10 AM

Quote:
________________________________________

**You may wish to read the article I mentioned the other day that is the current issue of SCI magazine--they did neck up the .375 Ruger and were pleasantly surprised with the results--

IMHO--your 30-375 loaded with 200 grain bullets would probably do anything you need it to do for a medium gun if you had the .416 for your big bore--personally I have used a HS Precision on 300 Ultra-mag to take many plains game in Africa in addition to elk, deer and bear in Montana--Have never felt I needed more--

Boddington has stated in some of the article I have read that he felt the perfect 3 gun combo is a .338 along with a .416 or 458 depending on your tolerance for recoil.. I would certainly tend to agree ...

Ripp

I missed your earlier comment regarding the SCI article – I don’t have a subscription so will have to see if its available on their website.

I did however contact Hornady earlier this year to obtain the SAAMI specifications for the 375 Ruger which I shared with another forum. I was informed by Hornady that I’d be pleasantly surprised/very happy with any combination of the .308, .338, .416, or .423 375 Ruger based cartridges that I posed as potential wildcats in my email messages. Another participate on that forum had been in telephonic contact with Hornady on a number of occasions and was informed that Hornady/Ruger were looking very hard at a 416 Ruger cartridge in the near future due to their testing results. I’m lead to understand from both communications that Hornady/Ruger have tested many potential production variables between the .284 and .458 calibers.

Jim

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DarylS
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Re: Which caliber [Re: capoward]
      #85710 - 16/09/07 04:39 AM

Standard .375H&H or the newer .375 Ruger - no contest.
; Both are easy to shoot accurately, and plenty powerful enough as well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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475Guy
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Re: Which caliber [Re: alaskan]
      #85711 - 16/09/07 04:46 AM

All the answers are good. The 375 is the most soft shooting of the bunch, whether the original H&H or otherwise. But, if you're really into "stopping" power, then going up the 416 in whatever flavor will be the obvious choice. You can split the difference by loading a 350 grain bullet and have a flat enough trajectory with a heavy enough bullet for stopping any critter up there.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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600JDJ
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Re: Which caliber [Re: 475Guy]
      #85839 - 18/09/07 10:00 AM

My vote too is for the 375 H&H. There are many, many choices to have fun with, but that velvet-smooth feeding, easy-to-load, no-hassle, find-ammo EVERYWHERE, resell-if needed, cheap-to-shoot for a biggy, flat-shooting, hard-hitting, with-character, wide-bullets-choice, is the 375 H&H. You an specialize in any direction for many reasons. But have the one you can always go to when you HAVE to hunt anything, anywhere. You will probably find ammo in some little gas station in the middle of anywhere in 375 H&H, maybe not in all the rest. Then have fun w/ something more exotic when you can.

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walksfar
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Re: Which caliber [Re: 600JDJ]
      #85914 - 20/09/07 02:40 AM

Ammunition availability for a certain caliber, along with the component availability is always a grave concern. After having dabbled in a lot of Nitro's and other less available components, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that it's of utmost importance to choose a caliber that can be found if needed on a short-term basis.
For what you may need, a .375H@H will be "ok", but in my mind, with the big ammo companies helping the situation recently, I might opt for the .416 Rigby. In fact, I know I would.
The .404, is simply too hard to find components on the short-term.
The .338 is too small in my mind to be a best "all-around" gun.
My vote-.416 Rigby----keeping in mind that you should stock components in some quantity, should they become harder to get in the future for some odd reason.

--------------------
..Faith in God and the Mauser...

Member-DRSS

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500grains
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Re: Which caliber [Re: walksfar]
      #85936 - 20/09/07 12:33 PM

The .375 is by far the most versatile, ammo is easy to find, and there is always a ready resale market. The .404 would be a delight on those AK bears, however.

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Plains99
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Re: Which caliber [Re: 500grains]
      #86024 - 21/09/07 11:48 PM

I chose a .375 H&H Savage 116 Weather Warrior for this style of hunting over the Ruger. I also intend to use it in Africa. I've shot both and while the Savage does not meet the classic popular requirements of a dangerous game rifle (push feed, tang safety as opposed to three position safety and Mauser style feed on a Ruger) it was much more pleasant to shoot and much less expensive to buy. The little .375 Ruger African has more sudden recoil that bites pretty hard. Frankly, my groups were a full 1/2 inch tighter with the Savage trigger system and the heavier/longer action. For most of us these rifles are carried a lot and shot a little. The Rugers are very nice carry guns... especially the Alaskan. The Ruger Alaskan should prove very popular as a homestead/bear defense gun in the North country and I look for the company to broaden the caliber selections for that rifle. But I don't feel one bit handicapped carrying the Savage especially in .375 H&H. I KNOW the .375 H&H cartridge will be around for some time and I don't really know how popular the Ruger will prove to be.

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alaskan
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Re: Which caliber [Re: Plains99]
      #86137 - 24/09/07 11:27 AM

Thanks for all the really good input you guys have given me. I really would like to shoot a heavier bullet, and the 404 would do the job with a 400 grain. The recoil would not be that bad, and I could have the gun built a little lighter. The 375 H&H would be the best by far for getting ammo, which can be a big thing and still be able the get the job done. The 416 Rigby, which is my favorite caliber, has more recoil and is a bit heavier. I still can't seem to make up my mind, I know what the gun is going to look like, but I am still having a hard time figuring out which caliber. When I started this project I didn't think it was going to be such a hard decision.

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Which caliber [Re: Plains99]
      #86169 - 25/09/07 12:21 PM

Plains99,

It is a pity that Savage no longer offer the 375 H&H - with their Accutrigger and synthetic stock it would be a lovely rifle. And Savages are cheap enough that anyone could buy one and keep it for fun even if they didn;t hunt big game. More's the pity...

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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alaskan
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Reged: 27/08/07
Posts: 22
Loc: alaska
Re: Which caliber [Re: alaskan]
      #90166 - 30/11/07 03:56 PM

I have narrowed it down to either the 404 or the 416 Rigby, still can't make up my mind. HELP

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