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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game

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hoppdoc
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Loc: Southeastern USA
African DG Hunting-Now A Dream??
      #84597 - 25/08/07 01:47 AM

Tanzania has recently held firm on its 500% price increases.

More than likely other countries will follow--

If your just an guy out there working everyday it is probably just a matter of time before you are priced completely out of the market--

Soon you will have to truly be RICH to hunt Africa for DG-what a pity!!

When that happens there will be no need for all that African firepower we enjoy discussing either.Its not really needed as much elsewhere.

Guess I gotta start looking for a loan and another Safari this year pronto!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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hoppdoc
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Re: African DG Hunting-Now A Dream?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #84623 - 25/08/07 12:52 PM

What is RICH??

To me it is not having to work and enjoying expensive hobbies without tribulation--

If the fellow who has to work every day to maintain an income cannot enjoy African hunting and the thrills involved then I think hunting as a sport is damaged severely.

Hunting DG is a different kind of excitement than waiting for a big whitetail to show--

Pricing hunts high hurts the Big Bore riflemakers as well as African outfitters.

Is hunting changing for the worse?Will it affect outfitters? If you can't(won't)afford it I guess it doesn't matter.Arghh!!You just sell your rifles and pursue another hobby!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (25/08/07 08:14 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: African DG Hunting-Now A Dream?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #84626 - 25/08/07 04:10 PM

I started to see the writing on the wall in 2005 and managed to go in 2006 for two tuskless elephant. Missed out on taking another buffalo though which was a pity.

Prices rarely go down, and over time it is becoming more and more expensive and smaller and smaller section of the population can afford it. When that sector gets too small, the greenies will eliminate it altogether.

With Botswana being expensive, Tanzania shooting prices up, talk is Zambia and Namibia will be going up too. South Africa for DG is already expensive, so that leaves Zimbabwe, whose political mess is keeping prices in check somewhat. If it becomes politically stable look out.

I don't know anything about the Francophile African countries.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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hoppdoc
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Re: African DG Hunting-Now A Dream?? [Re: NitroX]
      #84628 - 25/08/07 09:13 PM

I will finish my rant, and sorry if I annoy anyone--

I would bet that most who go after African DG have at least a 6 figure income to have the disposable income to afford the other associated costs of such a hunt-rifles, hunting gear, plane tickets etc.

That is the real reason African DG hunters are a select few of the hunters out there.

Soon it may require an income in the high 6 figures or 7 figures to hunt Africa--

At that point African DG hunting will be passe for almost all hunters and just a memory--extinct!! That hurts the entire hunting industry bigtime- What area of hunting is next?

How sad!!

End of rant--

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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bonanza
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Re: African DG Hunting-Now A Dream?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #84630 - 25/08/07 10:50 PM

Hop,

That would have to be a high six-figure income.

I saw this coming too. More with the weakening dollar than any thing else.

However, don't droop you head too low. You still live in the greatest county in the world where we have: Trophy Elk, Moose, Bison, Deer and Grizzly where you don't have to dick around with some banana republic official, and; the prices are reasonable.

I'm going to Co. on a trophy Mule Deer hunt this year.

$300 for tag
$360 for air fair
$300 for incidentals.

1 week Co. hunt ~ about $1000 Next year will be for Bull Elk.

I am taking my double rifle.

Until things turn around in Africa, It remains a dream.


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iqbal
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Reged: 05/02/03
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Re: African DG Hunting-Now A Dream?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #84635 - 25/08/07 11:35 PM

"I would bet that most who go after African DG have at least a 6 figure income to have the disposable income to afford the other associated costs of such a hunt-rifles, hunting gear, plane tickets etc".
That leaves me out.I'm glad I did the plainsgame hunt in 2001 when it was quite affordable.However if the hunting industry is hurt by rocketting prices there is a possibility that prices may come down(hopefully).


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hoppdoc
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Re: African DG Hunting-Now A Dream?? [Re: iqbal]
      #84637 - 25/08/07 11:59 PM

In reality I suppose we should count our blessings.

Many of us have gone on hunts that other hunters just dream about.

What percent of hunters actually hunt Africa?? 2-3%??

We who have done so are very fortunate indeed!!

Africa was initially hunted by the privileged and super rich-- it is just returning to its roots-

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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EricD
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Re: African DG Hunting-Now A Dream?? [Re: NitroX]
      #84638 - 26/08/07 12:19 AM

With the increasing prices, I have no doubt that some of these countries will soon be financially off limits to many of those who are able to hunt in Africa at the moment. And as we've seen before, with decreased commercial hunting, poaching will increase...

If the African governments are dumb enough to think that fewer, but richer, clients will bring in the same amount of money to the country, then they are forgetting all the other money that gets spent by regular hunters. Tremendous amounts are spent on hotels, transfers to/from the hunting area either by car or plane, restaurants etc, not to mention the souvenir industry. These things give work and income to a very large number of locals. It seems to me that those in power are as usual more interested in making more money quikly, rather than thinking long term.

I'm very glad that I've spent time in several of the more expensive hunting countries, but it seems increasingly unlikely that I'll be able to hunt in them in the future.

Erik


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allenday
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Reged: 18/04/04
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Re: African DG Hunting-Now A Dream?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #84646 - 26/08/07 01:18 AM

I'm booked to hunt leopard, buffalo, hippo, croc, and plainsgame next year in Zambia. We have the daily-rate locked-in at the price we agreed to at the time of booking, but the trophy fees are going to increase somewhat for us.

After next season, I'll likely hunt buffalo in Mozambique or possibly even Zimbabwe (if Zim's still feasible), but due to these astronomical price increases, I'm done with Tanzania, and I'm thankful for the two safaris I've enjoyed there.

If need be, I'll just enjoy plainsgame hunting in the future, which is really more my thing than increasingly expensive, iconic "dangerous game" hunting is anyway.

Today's price climate is just one great big, stellar reason why I've always recommended that anyone who's interested in Africa hunt there as much as possible, RIGHT NOW, because tomorrow may really and truly never come..........

AD


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lapua
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Re: African DG Hunting-Now A Dream?? [Re: EricD]
      #84648 - 26/08/07 01:30 AM

same old thing again ..greed .. man's big down fall as far as Africa goes you can take the people out of the jungle but you can't take the jungle out of the people in this case the goverment ! I know because I work there ..
Africa will never change ....

--------------------
Cheers

lapua

ADF VETERAN ARMY

Lest We Forget


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: African DG Hunting-Now A Dream?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #84680 - 26/08/07 05:08 PM

Quote:


I would bet that most who go after African DG have at least a 6 figure income to have the disposable income to afford the other associated costs of such a hunt-rifles, hunting gear, plane tickets etc.




I disagree.

A Zimbabwe tuskless or cow hunt costs between US$5000 to US$10,000 for one or two cow elephants. No taxidermy costs. Pay for airfares and hotel before and maybe after plus some taxes. Use a drive in with PH option rather than a charter flight. That cost me US$200 last hunt rather than probably $2000 for a charter. I prefer driving anyway.

Sometimes there are cape buffalo hunts at similar prices too. Add taxidermy/dip and packing costs. Save on taxidermy but doing skull mounts.

End of season specials. The weather is not as comfortable, but sometimes a whole bunch of extras are available on quota and cheaper than usual, without a whole bunch of additional days needing to be purchased.

Attend some safari shows, some auctions have some hunts which are good, with good operators and at very good prices.

My next hunts will probably be one of the two above - ie end of season or deals on safari auction.

Tipping! Tip like a local. A tip sould be a gift nit income. And not try to be impress everyone with your wealth. Especially if you don't have it, like me!

Yes it is necessary to save for it, but a six figure income is not needed.

Play lotto like me, only way I will ever go on a 21 day Tanzania Safari.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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AspenHill
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Re: African DG Hunting-Now A Dream?? [Re: NitroX]
      #84688 - 26/08/07 11:10 PM

I doubt I will ever see Tanzania, always had doubts but now for sure. I enjoy plains game hunting quite a lot and if I make it over next year, that's all I will do. Like John said, sometimes you find some reduction at the end of the season but fewer of those are coming about. Too much demand at the moment. I've been lucky, I've taken elephant, leopard and hippo. The only other DBG I ever thought I could afford was a buffalo. I do want a sable but they too are rapidly beyond my means.

I do fear once other hunting countries see what Tanzania is doing they will follow suit which may ruin even plains game hunting.

--------------------
~Ann

Everyday spent outdoors is the best day of my life.

Aspen Hill Adventures


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hoppdoc
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Re: African DG Hunting-Now A Dream?? [Re: NitroX]
      #84739 - 27/08/07 08:41 PM

NitroX

Are you married??

If you are. and have done all those safari's, your wife is a saint.

If single I could surely swing an African trip on less than 6 figures income, but being married with 4 children kinda makes all the money vanish!!

She gets all pissy when the moneys not there with me gone hunting!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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Ripp
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Re: African DG Hunting-Now A Dream?? [Re: NitroX]
      #84746 - 27/08/07 11:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I would bet that most who go after African DG have at least a 6 figure income to have the disposable income to afford the other associated costs of such a hunt-rifles, hunting gear, plane tickets etc.




I disagree.

A Zimbabwe tuskless or cow hunt costs between US$5000 to US$10,000 for one or two cow elephants. No taxidermy costs. Pay for airfares and hotel before and maybe after plus some taxes. Use a drive in with PH option rather than a charter flight. That cost me US$200 last hunt rather than probably $2000 for a charter. I prefer driving anyway.

Sometimes there are cape buffalo hunts at similar prices too. Add taxidermy/dip and packing costs. Save on taxidermy but doing skull mounts.

End of season specials. The weather is not as comfortable, but sometimes a whole bunch of extras are available on quota and cheaper than usual, without a whole bunch of additional days needing to be purchased.

Attend some safari shows, some auctions have some hunts which are good, with good operators and at very good prices.








While realizing that things are changing--sometimes its human nature to look at the bad versus the good--I don't feel it is priced out of reach yet in all areas--"YET".. I agree with NITROX----there are still lots of deals to be had currently--HOWEVER, the time is probably now or within the next year or two--as it is definitely heading north..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DPhillips
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Re: African DG Hunting-Now A Dream?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #84788 - 28/08/07 04:44 PM

Quote:

NitroX

Are you married??

If you are. and have done all those safari's, your wife is a saint.

If single I could surely swing an African trip on less than 6 figures income, but being married with 4 children kinda makes all the money vanish!!

She gets all pissy when the moneys not there with me gone hunting!!



And there it is.

I don't want to sound mean, but I hear this all the time.

Everyone wants it all. When I went to Zim, even on the small little hunt I went on, a lot of my friends just couldn't understand how I could afford to do that.

Truth is, even though I really do enjoy the job I have, there are other jobs I'd probably like more that don't pay as well. I also spent nearly 8 years in the Universities to get that job. I don't have 4 children, don't have a huge ranch or an oversized house and mortgage to match. My truck is 8 years old, I don't own a boat (unless you call a canoe a boat), don't own a snowmachine, motorcycles, 4-wheelers, airplanes, etc... I don't drink $100 bottles of single malt scotch.

My wife and I take a vacation to someplace nice, but if it's real nice, it does preclude me from going into the Brooks Range or to Zimbabwe or Zambia or Tajikistan. I saved for years to get Zimbabwe. I can't go at the drop of a hat. I have to plan and budget for it.

It's true, the Tanzania increase, and Zambia to follow, will probably put some dangerous game hunts out of reach for people that were just barely going to make it. But, with some solid planning and budgets, it can still be done. No, not many are going to take 21 day or month long full bag safaris. The dream of the big five will probably remain a dream, except to the wealthiest. Not many will be able to afford a lion hunt.

But a 7 day buff hunt can still be done with some real planning and sacraficing, if it is a priority. But then, you aren't going to be able to have everything. Something will have to give for a lot of us, probably. It will for me, I suppose. I'm willing to not go on the brown bear on the Alaska Peninsula or the moose hunt at Cape Suckling and put off buying a new truck for another year or two to save up for that hunt, though. I'll brown bag my lunch. I'll go bear hunting and moose hunting somewhere that doesn't cost an arm and a leg closer to home.

Africa is on the other side of the planet for the U.S. sportsman. Nobody said it should be cheap or even fair. Growing up, I never imagined I would be able to afford an African safari. Sure, I dreamed about it, but I never knew anyone that had ever been. I never seriously thought I would ever get there. Think about it. I bet there are more citizens of our countries today that have been hunting in Africa than ever before.

I'm not saying that I agree with the fee increases, but we'll see if the market will bear it. If it does, I guess us middle class guys are not going to be able to afford it. Let's face it, Botswana has been filling hunts for a long time and asking a premium for them. If not, maybe Tanzania will see the light and drop their prices a bit. Or not...


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larcher
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Re: African DG Hunting-Now A Dream?? [Re: NitroX]
      #84896 - 30/08/07 02:43 AM

Quote:



I don't know anything about the Francophile African countries.




Prices are the same than last year. I didn't hear about any inflation. Only airfares are more expensive. Moreover there seems to be more and more outfitters, that's good for they have to compete with tariffs too.
In Burkina, with 15 000 $ You can hunt a roan, a buffalo and a hartebeest and have them all taxidermied. If it can help???

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

Edited by larcher (30/08/07 02:50 AM)


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Ripp
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Re: African DG Hunting-Now A Dream?? [Re: DPhillips]
      #84959 - 30/08/07 10:34 PM

DPHILLIPS


Very well said...and true...


Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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