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Weatherby
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Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 9
Loc: NSW, Australia

Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ?
#84500 - 23/08/07 10:32 PM

Whats the perfect Cape Buffalo calibre ?

If you were able to choose one particular calibre for the sole purpose of hunting cape buffalo what would it be ?

Furthermore, is there a gun to match. Would you choose a double or a bolt action. And finally what make and model would that be ?

--------------------
Outback
NSW, Australia

Edited by AussieBigGameHunter (23/08/07 10:34 PM)

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: Weatherby]
#84502 - 23/08/07 10:48 PM

IS THERE A PERFECT ONE--PROBABLY--
WILL IT ALWAYS WORK TO PERFECTION IN ALL CASES---PROBABLY NOT..

ARE THERE MANY GOOD CARTRIDGES OUT THERE---YES..

PERSONALLY, IMHO, BIGGER IS BETTER AS LONG AS ONE CAN HANDLE THE RECOIL AND SHOOT EFFECTIVELY..

I HAVE A .375, 416, 458 WIN, 470 NITRO DOUBLE AND WORKING ON ANOTHER DOUBLE..TO BE DISCLOSED AT A FUTURE DATE

BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE AND WHAT I HAVE READ, ALONG WITH MANY ARTICLES BY BODDINGTON, THERE IS A NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE WHEN SHOOTING A CAPE BUFFALO WITH A .375 VERSUS A 416.. THE INITIAL EFFECT IS NOTICABLE.. CONVERSLY, THERE IS ALSO A NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SHOOTING A BUFFALO WITH A .416 VERSUS A .458...AGAIN, CAN YOU HANDLE THE GUN AND MAKE A GOOD ACCURATE SHOT???

SHOT PLACEMENT IS ALWAYS PARAMOUNT VERSUS THE CLUB YOU HIT THEM WITH.. BUT,,, ON A FULL ON CHARGE.. THE LARGER BULLETS ARE MORE EFFECTIVE..

BOLT VERSUS DOUBLE---THE BOLT OFFERS PROBABLY A LONGER SHOT SINCE MOST HAVE A SCOPE ON THEM WHICH TRANSLATES INTO MORE ACCURACY IF YOU HAVE TO THREAD A BULLET THROUGH AN OPENING..YOU ALSO WILL HAVE 3 TO 4 BULLETS IN A BOLT.. BUT THE FOLLOW UP CAN NEVER MATCH THE DOUBLE IN QUICKNESS..

THE DOUBLE OFFERS TWO QUICK SHOTS, NOSTALGA, AND GREAT RELIABLITY IN THE HEAT OF THE MOMENT...SO EACH HAVE THE POSITIVE QUALITIES...

AS TO WHICH ONE--HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU HAVE??? FOR DOUBLES, IF MONEY WAS NOT AN ISSUE, MY PREFERENCE WOULD BE A HIGH END ENGLISH DOUBLE.. NO QUESTIONS ASKED..--IF MONEY IS AN ISSUE, LOOK AROUND, THERE ARE MANY GOOD DOUBLES AT MODERATE PRICES,, IF $10,000 OR ABOVE CAN BE CONSIDERED MODERATE..

---MERKEL, KRIEGHOFF, CHAPIUS..ETC...

AS FOR A BOLT--FOR DANGEROUS GAME ONLY, I WOULD GET A MAUSER TYPE ACTION--(CONTROLLED FEED) --START THERE--HOWEVER THE BRAND NAME,ETC.. CAN GO ON AND ON... I WOULD PROBABLY GET ONE BUILT TO MY SPECIFICATIONS.. THEREFORE IT WOULD BE "MY" RIFLE...

AGAIN,, THIS IS JUST MHO...

RIPP

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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AzGuy
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Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 388
Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: Weatherby]
#84525 - 24/08/07 02:11 AM

Quote:

Whats the perfect Cape Buffalo calibre ?

If you were able to choose one particular calibre for the sole purpose of hunting cape buffalo what would it be ?

Furthermore, is there a gun to match. Would you choose a double or a bolt action. And finally what make and model would that be ?

The perfect Buff caliber(cartridge)? There isn't a perfect one, but there are lots of good ones

$$$ have alot to do with what caliber/cartridge you decide to use on Buff. I'd rather hunt Buff with almost any DR from 9.3 up than with any bolt action.

IMO, i think a QD scoped 450/400 in a reasonable quality DR is just about ideal.

--------------------
Hike the Grand Canyon, you will never be the same!

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: Weatherby]
#84533 - 24/08/07 02:35 AM

450 3.25" NE for me.

Roscoe has the perfect rifle.

http://www.rbsiii.com/collection/rifles/gibbs_450/gibbs_450.htm

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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: bonanza]
#84543 - 24/08/07 03:41 AM

There are several suitable calibres for buff. But I'm an advocate for the 458wm class rifles, 450NE, 470, 465, ....

For the fellow most interested in shooting the largest horned trophy, I think that a scoped rifle in the 375H&H class is more flexible and the better choice.

For the fellow who is most interested in the most fun and thrilling buff hunt then I think that an open sighted double rifle is the better choice.

There will be shots that you cannot take if you are hunting with an open sighted rifle and there will be shots where you need to keep at least the first shot in the animal.

Personally, I forego those shot opportunities and work for the closest shot possible and use a 458wm double rifle shooting solids and aim for the most fun and exciting hunt. This hasn't cost me a particular bull yet, but it is bound to at some point. There will be a time when we just cannot get closer or when the bull is always in front of another buff. Since a tracker is ussually carrying my scoped 375H&H I could switch off, but I've never been inclined to do so and have passed on the shot. We've always found a way to get a clear closer shot, but there is more than a little luck in that and someday that bull particular will make his escape if I stick to my open sighted double.

JPK

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: JPK]
#84548 - 24/08/07 06:09 AM

I'm hoping a 500 NE shot correctly into the chest/shoulder region will give dramatic results--

Maybe next year!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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AzGuy
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Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 388
Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: hoppdoc]
#84554 - 24/08/07 09:58 AM

Quote:

I'm hoping a 500 NE shot correctly into the chest/shoulder region will give dramatic results....

No doubt it will

.....but is your Merkel 500 NE the "perfect" Buff combo?

--------------------
Hike the Grand Canyon, you will never be the same!

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hoppdoc
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Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: AzGuy]
#84559 - 24/08/07 10:40 AM

If the red Dot Aimpoint 2x in claw mounts holds up on the gun with 5" of eye relief it will be getting close to really workable for me but not perfect of course--

I can only dream about a 577 H&H Double whacking on buff--love to try/handle that if I didn't have to carry it all day!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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88MauSporter
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Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: hoppdoc]
#84565 - 24/08/07 02:07 PM

I only can go buy what I have read. Boddington and Wieland, along with some of the early 20th century hunters state .404 jeffery and .450/.400 Jeffrey. Jeffery, from what I have read, had the .404 developed with Cape Buffalo as the quary. Look at the ballistics. In theory, more than .375 H&H and less than the .450 Nitro. Enough without waste.
Sort of goes against my favorite hunting quote below, though.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
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Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: 88MauSporter]
#84570 - 24/08/07 03:53 PM

I have shot a few cape buffalo. I have used a 450 No2, a 450/400 3 1/4", and a 9,3x74R [the only scoped gun used on buff].
As you can tell I prefer the double rifle for buff [and elephant] hunting.

The only buff I have killed with one shot was with the 9,3 [go figure], but my wife did kill a buff with one shot of the 450/400.

After it is all said and done I think the BEST rifle for hunting cape buff is a 450/400 double with a scope in QD mounts.

With my scoped 400 I have taken warthog, baboon, and lion, with iron sights I have taken deer, pigs, caribou, buff, and elephant.

A scoped 400 double is a great choice for the modern sport hunter.

Might be best overall.

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ozhunter
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Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: NE450No2]
#84576 - 24/08/07 07:04 PM

A 416Taylor with a 1-4 Schmidt&Bender scope and 410grn bullets at 2280fps would be my pick for a Buffalo bolt action rifle set up.
IMO, The 9.3x62 is a sensible minimum for Buffalo.
Good Buffalo bullets are Swift A Frame softs and Woodleigh solids.
I would like to try North Fork and Barns X triple shock bullets.
And as JPK has said, Using an open sighted Double rifle in 400, 450 or 470 is great fun but do expect to mis some opportunity's.

This Buff coped two 470 rounds as it spun around to take off.

My next rifle should be great for Buffalo, a SEARCY 450/400 with a QD S&B scope.

Edited by ozhunter (15/11/07 06:24 PM)

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: hoppdoc]
#84579 - 24/08/07 09:45 PM

Quote:

I can only dream about a 577 H&H Double whacking on buff--love to try/handle that if I didn't have to carry it all day!!

Realizing your statement was tongue in check--the .577 Nitro's I have shot are a HUGE step up in power in both ends--none the less, absolutely spectacular to fire...

John Taylor wrote in his book that with a 470 or 500 you could shoot a elephant and if you just slightly missed the brain the elephant would still be knocked out for 15 to 20 minutes however given the same circumstances with the 577, it would be well over an 1/2 hour---those 750 gr bullets have a dramatic effect...again at both ends--the recoil was not unmanagable, but definitely a step up ..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: Ripp]
#84588 - 24/08/07 10:41 PM

My choice would be a .450 double (or similar sized double) with a scope option as the ideal buffalo rifle.

A .416, .400 or similar in a double would also be quite nice.

A double rifle is preferred but a bolt action in a similar calibre will also do the deed if one prefers a bolt action.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: Weatherby]
#84589 - 24/08/07 11:36 PM

The perfect cape buff rifle for me would be a 500 NE double with 24 inch barrels, ejectors, and open sights.
I don't feel the need to shoot big game at long range, so for me, a scoped rifle is not going to be part of the deal.
If forced to use a bolt gun, I'd feel ok about using a 22 inch barreled 458 Win mag, with crf and open sights of course.

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: ozhunter]
#84591 - 25/08/07 12:05 AM

Ozhunter--

I agree!! A 450/400 sounds like a Double I would love to hunt and shoot with as well!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
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Loc: Chevy Chase, MD

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: hoppdoc]
#84622 - 25/08/07 12:06 PM

You fellows touting the 450/400 or so with a QD scope, you may just have the ideal rifle for buff. A double is surely prefered since you can get in two in almost any first shot (and second with a dr) instance before the buff hits the bush. If you need to follow a buff the double is better than a bolt, period. But take the scope off, of course!

JPK

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: JPK]
#84631 - 25/08/07 11:17 PM

Ok,

We now know that cape buffalo hunting is becoming theoretical and I probably will never have practical experience, so I'm going to pontificate on the virtues of the 450 3.25 NE at the expense of the 450/400.

5000 ft/Lbs kinetic energy versus 4000 ft/Lbs, .458" versus .411, Do the math gents. The 450 delivers 20% more energy but only 20% more recoil.

The 450 shoots the 350, 400, and 480 grain bullets very well giving it a wide envelope.

Objectively, I say the 450 NE is superior to the 450/400.

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allenday
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Reged: 18/04/04
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Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: Weatherby]
#84640 - 26/08/07 12:33 AM

My favorite cartridge for Cape buffalo is the 416 Rem. Mag., and I consider it to be the perfect for that purpose.

You can build a 416 Rem. Mag. on a lighter, smaller action that you'd ideally need for a 416 Rigby, plus you can build the entire rifle to be the size and weight of a 375 H&H, with a magazine that holds four-down, but is no deeper than a standard box. A 416 Rem. Mag. can be built much lighter and handier than a 416 Ribgy, so it's much easier to carry all day long if need be in the bush, yet achieve the same ballistics, plus kick much less than the big 458s do, yet hammer buff significantly harder than the 375 H&H.

With the 416 Remington, you can have the best of all worlds in one package...........

AD

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S2in470
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Reged: 17/03/05
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Loc: Waxahachie Texas

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: allenday]
#85563 - 13/09/07 04:56 PM

My advice would be get a rifle you can shoot very well (and preferably afford to buy and feed) in a caliber of 375H&H or larger. I prefer the Heym 88PH in 470NE with 500gr Woodliegh bullets. That said, I would not have felt any issue in hunting one with my Dakota 76 in 375H&H with Barnes 300gr bullets either!

If you do have optics on the rifle you choose; you will need to assure they are set to a low enough setting. So when you take your first shot should things get “very close very quickly” you are able to see the charge and not just a blurry patch of hair! Thus the optimal choice is a 1-4X30 or similar “DG” scope. I prefer the Kahles 1-4X30 with a 2nd focal plain illuminated “post dot” reticule for my bolt gun.

If you shoot iron sights (express or otherwise) assure you can shoot accurately with them under field conditions. If you are not sure you can accurately make the shot presented to you; politely decline it. Your PH would much rather get you a better shot than have either of you take an 8 second bull ride to eternity! Another must for hunting with iron sights is a great set of binoculars. I feel you should use them anytime you are hunting anyway however; they are particularly needed when hunting with a rifle without optics.

When I took the buffalo in this picture (see below) he was standing with a small tree to the left of his shoulder and presenting a frontal shot in tight cover. It took having a look through my Swarovski 10X42’s to discern where his shoulder stopped and a tree started. If it weren’t for good binoculars I wouldn’t have been able to make the shot I needed too in order to take this buff cleanly.

PS: I took my binos off when we moved this guy for pictures that is the only reason they are not in this photo! Remember, your binos are just as important as your boots when it comes to hunting!

Best of luck!

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: S2in470]
#85576 - 13/09/07 10:11 PM

The perfect caliber for my first Buff will be my 500 NE!!
If I do my part and smash a Buff/Ele properly with that rifle I would like to do a later Buff/PG/Hippo/croc hunt with a 450/400 with a QD scope and a b/u 416 bolt.A qd scoped 450/400-- maybe a little handier and more versatile for other game than a heavy Double.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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Schamankungulo
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Reged: 21/04/07
Posts: 115
Loc: Southeastern USA

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: hoppdoc]
#85732 - 16/09/07 10:09 AM

Buffs are odd critters , they tend to absorb copiuos amounts of lead with no ill effects at times , and other times one shot will take 'em down ..
I have seen both extremes , one shot with a 375 , and six with a 600NE ..
I had a 470 NE dubble that accounted for one , a 500 NE double that accounted for one , and my Lott's have taken four ..
Regardless of choice , brings lots of ammo , you'll probably need it ..
If a bolt gun , a big magazine helps , my Lott is a six shooter ..
I would not go smaller than a 416 .. otherwise as much as you can handle bore wise ..

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: Schamankungulo]
#85784 - 17/09/07 04:46 AM

Quote:

Buffs are odd critters , they tend to absorb copiuos amounts of lead with no ill effects at times , and other times one shot will take 'em down ..
I would not go smaller than a 416 .. otherwise as much as you can handle bore wise ..

**Totally agree--the first buff I shot--we tracked him and ran with him in the herd for about 4 1/2 hours--I shot him in the lungs with a .416 using 400 gr A-Frames--at about 60 yards..he was hurt but still upright--I shot him again broadside--he took off running--at which point I drove 2 Barnes solids into him Texas heart shot style--he dropped--shot again per my PH's recommendation--while walking up to him--about 10 feet away he got back on his front feet--which took 1 more 416 in the spine to dispatch him..

The next day, shot the biggest buff of my life so far--one shot--down for the count...

Personally it has to be how calm they are at the initial shot--no adrenalin flowing freely seems to make a big difference..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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ant458
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Reged: 02/11/07
Posts: 37
Loc: georgia usa

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: Ripp]
#88214 - 04/11/07 10:06 AM

600 nitro is my first choice

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Loc: Tennessee, USA

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: Weatherby]
#88216 - 04/11/07 10:38 AM

Of the six Cape Buffalo I have killed, five were with my wildcat .505 bolt gun, which duplicates .500 NE ballistics, and one was with my .458 Krieghoff Teck O/U double rifle. My only reservation about the .458 is that it has too much penetration and a broadside shot at a buffalo may result in wounding the one behind him unintentionally. This reservatioin would apply equally to other .45 and .40 caliber rounds. The .50 caliber bullets pack more wallop and don't exit.

Three of the five taken with the .505 were one shot kills, as was the one with the .458, all frontal shots. The last one shot with the .505 was shot broadside running and absorbed a magazine load (four rounds) before coming to such a sudden halt that his nose plowed up the ground. One might have done the trick, but I just kept shooting until he hit the ground.

Having said that, the recoil generated by a .500 NE class rifle may be too much to allow the shooter to place his shots well, and placement is far more important than caliber. If I had a shoulder injury which prevented me from shooting the big stuff, I wouldn't hesitate to use a .375 H&H or even a 9.3X74R or 9.3X64, given the proper bullets (solids).

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driftwood
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Reged: 31/12/06
Posts: 20
Loc: Utah, United States

Re: Is there a perfect Cape Buffalo Calibre ? [Re: xausa]
#88250 - 05/11/07 11:01 AM

Of course there is. I just purchased a Searcy 450 NE and it is perfect for buffalo. Smaller action than the 500 NE and same ballistics as the 470 NE in a smaller package. And it is very managable to shoot with the same result as the 470 at the other end. Like any weapon if you can shoot it and place your bullets where they belong and kill the game, it is the perfect rifle for you and the game you are hunting.

--------------------
oleson

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