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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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luv2safari
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Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles
      #7907 - 31/01/04 08:04 AM

What ever happened to the Victor Sarasqueta double rifles that were marketed by Stoger in the 1950's? I shot a friend's in the early 60's and thought it to be quite good.

It was in either 450 No.2 or 470. He had a double rifle of another make, also...don't remember which was which.

Are there any of these still out there making a living?

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles [Re: luv2safari]
      #7916 - 31/01/04 10:36 AM

luv2safari,

Yes, I have one in Sidelock Ejector in 375H&H, a very nice, light, well balanced gun.
Also, this one seems to be particulalry well made with full, almost deep relief engraving.
It also "points" beautifully.

I have heard some people say some of the guns that came out were not that good - I have only seen
2 or 3 so can't comment. All the ones I've seen have been 375H&H - never seen the Larger calibres.

Haven't shot it yet but it will definately be going after Pigs, Buffalo and Kangaroos in the future
(but NOT as a back up / stopper rifle).

Anyone else have any info ???

500 Nitro

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luv2safari
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Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
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Re: V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles [Re: 500Nitro]
      #7918 - 31/01/04 11:11 AM

Nitro,

I just now looked up my old Stoger's 1957 edition and found the Sarasquetas on page 41. Yours appears to be the model 13 standard. It was chambered up to and including the 375 and has relief hunting scene engraving. It sold for $450.00

The Deluxe 13 sold for a whopping $750.00 and could be ordered in about any caliber. The illustration shows the front trigger to be a set trigger. This is the model I shot 40 years ago. It had tripple lock up and scroll engraving.



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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles [Re: luv2safari]
      #7922 - 31/01/04 11:40 AM

I could have bougt one in 1995 for $4500. in a case and fully engraved, I still have chills and shakes over not buying it, it was a nice rifle....I called and said I'd take it and the lady at the gunshop in Burley said another fellow just bought it....

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles [Re: atkinson6]
      #7927 - 31/01/04 12:05 PM

Sarasqueta may well have built good quality double rifles but I do know for a fact they also built some that were not so good, with poor workmanship and possibly poor quality metal as well.
They looked great on the outside though!

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holland465
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Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 71
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Re: V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles [Re: luv2safari]
      #7948 - 31/01/04 02:50 PM

I had a friend in Southern California that had one in 475#2 for sale last year. He shot it and told me that it was very accurate and comfortable to shoot. He sold it for 7,000.00 if memory serves me. I should have bought it but was not in the market for one at that time.

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luv2safari
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Posts: 1401
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Re: V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles [Re: holland465]
      #7951 - 31/01/04 03:04 PM

I remember years ago that they were noted for an excellent stock design, maybe that's why they felt so good when touched off.



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500Nitro
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Re: V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles [Re: luv2safari]
      #7965 - 01/02/04 12:10 AM

luv2safari,

Thanks for the info. I hadn't had a chance to do any research yet.
Mine does have the nice deep relief game scene engraving.

4seventy - as per my original post/reply, I had also heard some not so good,
HOWEVER I have YET to find 1 person who has ever seen a bad one
(and I talk and meet a hell of a lot of double rifle owners all over the world
every year so I am more likely to find someone than most.

I hate to say it but I think it might be one of those "stories" that gets started and then
repeated by people. It was probably jealousy that started it so many years ago !!!

Merkel - here's another one I see repeated - Merkels "Off the Face"

I own 2 and neither has yet come off the face - AND I have put a minimum of 100+ rounds through
each while doing load development / bullet testing and some of the loads were up their with the best !!!
(velocity etc)

Has anyone here actually SEEN one of these Merkel's that are off the face ?

500 Nitro

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles [Re: 500Nitro]
      #7983 - 01/02/04 09:05 AM

500,
I assure you Merkels off the face is a fact..

I have seen several for sale at a very good price and the reason I did not buy them is that they were off the face....

Both were 416 Rigbys and it does not surprise me that they were off the face as a double is a 14 ton gun, and the Rigbys can churn up 60,000 PSI in a heartbeat...

I believe that Merkels shot off the face in 375 and 416 as a result of that, so its no big secret, the bean counters at Merkel are not gun people and apparantly havn't got since enough to pour piss out of a boot to make a double on a rimless caliber number one and number two to make it in high intensity cartridges...

They earned the reputation they got and I told them at Dallas SCI some 3 or 4 years ago that the 375 and 416 was a mistake, but it landed on deaf and dumb ears....

Today, most factory bean counters have one thing in mind and that is sales at any cost, they are the bain of the gun making world IMO....computerized morons in control of bit industry...Maybe the have to be that way to survive but I for one won't make it any easier for them when they produce inferior products...

Merkel in .470, 9.3x74 are probably very nice guns, they look and feel good but I don't know as I have not owned one but I do get a lot of field reports....

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4seventy
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Re: V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles [Re: 500Nitro]
      #7993 - 01/02/04 10:48 AM

500
There was a Sarasqueta floatin' around up this way a couple of years ago that was well known as being a "clunka".
It was a Holland style sidelock and apparantly looked a million bucks.
I have never seen the rifle in question.
I was told about it by a man who was very well respected regarding his knowledge on doubles, and this guy had actually once owned the rifle.
He told me that while the gun appeared to be well made when looking at external parts, the locks were in fact a complete disaster.
The tumblers were not alligned correctly with the strikers and he spent a fair amount of money getting a smith to try and make the thing work and there were also more problems with soft sears.
There was some problem with the barrels as well regarding a section of rifling land going awol.
I don't know, maybe this is the only lemon that Sarasqueta made and all the others might be fine.
Before I'd buy one though I'd want to have a real good look at how well the locks were made and also how well all the other metal work has been fitted.

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luv2safari
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Re: V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles [Re: 4seventy]
      #8010 - 01/02/04 03:50 PM

Nothing is simpler than popping off a Holland side lock, and they make some pretty fantastic bore scopes these days. Granted, that doesn't tell the whole story, but it gets you well into the book.

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luv2safari
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Re: V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles [Re: atkinson6]
      #8011 - 01/02/04 03:56 PM

Ray,
It is my understanding that the bean counters at Merkel came up with the ultimate screw up for building their double rifles.

I have been told on very good authority that Merkel no longer builds any taper into their receivers...too expensive to machine and fit. This would explain why they shoot of face real early.

I would like to find out more on this.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles [Re: atkinson6]
      #8039 - 02/02/04 09:22 AM


Ray,

From you I believe it. Thanks. I also totally agree that 416 (and 375H&H) was a BIG mistake by Merkel.
They should have gone 500/416 if they had wanted a 416 calibre double.

I agree with you that bean counters are the "bain" of the gun industry - they don't undertsnad "quality"
and reputation. It is AMAZING to see how many GOOD Names stuffed in the last 10 years. I think they
should have stayed small and kept up the quality.

4seventy - I think I know of the gun you are taking about - I saw it before it was sold as the owner is a friend
of mine.

FYI, the first thing I do with Every double Rifle I am looking at buying is to get my gunsmith to take it apart
and check it. If OK etc etc, I buy it. Then he does the works on the gun (which my bank balance doesn't appreciate !!!)
but I KNOW that my gun is 100% and IF I ever sell it I can confidently stand behind the gun and say so.

Having stood in front of DG (Buffalo), I like to know I have done everything possible to make sure the gun will work.

Must go - be back later.

500 Nitro

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles [Re: luv2safari]
      #8271 - 06/02/04 08:36 AM

In reply to:

I have been told on very good authority that Merkel no longer builds any taper into their receivers...too expensive to machine and fit. This would explain why they shoot of face real early.



Taper has nothing to do with it! I have a Merkel that was made only a couple years ago, and one that was made in about 1920, and there is absolutely no difference in the shape of the A&D recievers! Everyone keeps talking about the Merkels coming off face, but I move amoung a lot of double rifles, and double rifle circles, and I can find no reputable, verifiable, information regarding any off face Merkel, regardless of chambering!

I suspect, when I do find one, it will be chambered for 416 Rigby, or that it can be verified that it was shot with an overloaded handload!

I beleive it is a mistake to chamber any double rifle with cartridges like the 416 Rigby, or any High intensity cartridge that was not designed for a double rifle. That is the ONLY mistake Merkel made with their new rifles. That is a mistake that has nbeen made by nearly all the makers, so Merkel is good company!

This OFF FACE crap people have tagged Merkel with, is simply an urban legend that is perpetuated by those who have an axe to grind, in most cases, and I believe it is simply perpetuated by it's compitition!

As far as the Sarasqueta double rifles are concerened, I had one a few years ago, chambered for 375H&H FL, and it was a good shooter, but the charges of rough inside parts, is true, in the case of the one I had. Mine shot very well, but a friend of mine who is a custom gun builder rehardened the sears, and made new springs for it. It got to where it had soft tumbler fall, and would occasionly double, for this reason the work was done, then I sold it at a gun show! I certainly would not trade any Merkel I ever owned for another one!

Pritty cloths sell a lot of phony stuff, but as the old saying goes, "You can't make a silk purse, out of a sow's ear"! But to be fair, That one was the only one I have had any dealing with, and all others may very well be top of the line. It is just that the quality in the one I had soured me on the name!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Dark_Helmet
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #8275 - 06/02/04 09:04 AM

man, threads like these make me wish I had the sctrach for a double...

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
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Re: V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles [Re: luv2safari]
      #8354 - 06/02/04 11:25 PM

In reply to:

I have been told on very good authority that Merkel no longer builds any taper into their receivers...too expensive to machine and fit. This would explain why they shoot of face real early.




luv2,
Don't really understand exactly what the "taper" is that you mention.
Taper on what part of the receiver?
Are you talking about the taper on the bolting system which is meant to provide automatic wear adjustment between bolting and barrel bites?

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luv2safari
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Posts: 1401
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Re: V. Sarasqueta Double Rifles [Re: 4seventy]
      #8362 - 07/02/04 02:19 AM

Yes. That is how it was explained to me.

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