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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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peter
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alexander henry return to life
      #82704 - 20/07/07 09:22 AM

this is gonna be the story about how my alex henry will take the long journy back to life.

a littel history recap, i bought the rifle at a sothebye auction in the spring.



the picture from the catalog.
it is a alexander henry 20 x 577" (thanks marrakai)
with an extra set of barrels in 450/400 x 3 1/4"
and yes the black smugde on the backlocks is varnish

now when i saw it i knew it was going to be a piece of work and then some, but it still looked allright. so i werent expecting the nice man with the hammer to point at me and saying sold for 1350 £.

then a two month waiting for the shipping to go through and then it hit the danish shores. allright my new toy got here, but in the daylight it did look kind of sad. at one point in its life it had a serious problem with outside rust(tropical finish) and that must have started its misfortune, it then had an encounter with a kind soul who desided to renovate it. since the only tool he must have had was a huge buffing wheel, a chisel and a rough paint brush. he did all he could to make it into a fishing weight.

the stock was covered in a thick layer of flat black warnish, so i removede it and gave it to my father in law who is a violin maker by trade and know a thing or two about fine wood oil and varnish.

today i pickede the stock up again from his shop, suprice there was valnut under there.





this is the raw stock before oil treatment, just making the last fine tuning now.

next thing will be the front sights since they were torn off by the buffer wheel



this is it for now i will get back later with moore.

peter

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A10ACN
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: peter]
      #82711 - 20/07/07 10:26 AM

WWwaaaaa!!!!!!! What a shame!!!!
Good luck with it! The wood looks great!!! I can't wait to see it when you get the metal finished. Hope the insides were better than the outside. Were both sets of barrels in the same shape?? Also, was the pistol grip one peice with the rest of the stock?? I've seen AHs that had the bottom of the pistol grip joined to the stock.

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Marrakai
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: A10ACN]
      #82735 - 20/07/07 10:43 PM

peter:
This is a thread which I shall enjoy following! As you know, I love nothing more than restoring these old boomers, and returning them to the hunting field. You have a challenge ahead to be sure, but if you can bring the metal up anything like the stock, then it will be well worth it in the long run. Much more personal satisfaction than simply swapping heaps of money for a bright shiny gun!

If you require a detailed photo of an original AH front sight, I would be happy to oblige, although mine lacks a moon sight.

You have a rare chambering there too. Have you seen Frank Findlow's article on the 20-bore/.577 in the DGJ a couple of years ago? Worth reading. Also, I think he would enjoy hearing about your AH, as he still takes a keen interest in the chambering.

A10ACN:
I'm sure you know what you have seen, but I seriously doubt that Alexander Henry would have made a 2-piece pistol grip as you describe. Firstly, there is no need to do this, as every (other) double rifle butt-stock in history is made one-piece, and secondly, if Henry had done this there is no way you would be able to see it! I suspect you have witnessed a more-or-less poorly repaired break. The toe was prone to crack on these rifles on account of the need for straight grain through the wrist, and weakening of the pistol-grip by fitting Henry's typically over-sized trap grip-cap.



--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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mehulkamdar
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: peter]
      #82779 - 21/07/07 11:51 AM

Peter,

Beautiful gun and lovely work. As Marrakai rightly says, everyone here is certain to enjoy this kind of thread.

Superb work by your father in law, BTW, and you are lucky to be his son in law for many, many good reasons!

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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peter
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: Marrakai]
      #82803 - 22/07/07 02:54 AM

so next episode in this saga.

on account of you wanting more i did a little photo session today because the sun is out as i write this. the pictures are very large, so details will show. my sincere appolegies if you dont have broadband.

marrakai you askede about the barrels, well to my eyes, they are pretty good and the last rust will vanish as soon as i put a few bullets through.





The action was rinshed and wipede down, and the varnish was removede(was a chore) im not gonna do anything more to the action or the sidelocks, as they are worn as it is and the engraving is worn thin as a result of the buffing whell.


the action as a complete unit


a look inside. pretty good nick


the working part of the sidelock


the sidelock hopefully you can still see what is left of the engraving



there were two barrels with the rifle, the alexander henry in 20 gauge x 577


and a later addition dan l frazer in 450/400 3 1/4"

i was told yesterday that frazer only used the moniker 400 ex about his nitro loadings, if any of you have any info that can veryfi this or disprove it i will love to know

here they are together


and last but not least for your plesaure i put it temporaryly together


concerning ammo i found a case maker here in europe that makes the 600/577 rewa, so im going that route too. the 20 gauge brass i found were with ballone heads all of them.

i hope i havent broke your computer with this tread please tell me to back off a bit if it is too much

regards peter

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peter
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: peter]
      #82805 - 22/07/07 03:01 AM

mehul

i know im lucky. he is a nice guy, got a lovly daugther, a nice farm with good hunting and makes 250-350$ an hour but dident charge my for the 5-7 hours of work he did on my gun although i was more than willing to pay for the work.

yes im blessed

peter

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peter
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: Marrakai]
      #82814 - 22/07/07 04:46 AM

marrakai

i cant get dgj in my neck of the woods so i havent seen anything about it, if you got a copy of the article i could borrow i would be i your debt. only thing i have read is by a gentleman from downunder. good writer, you should look at his work.

web page

any contact to any who can tell me something about this caliber is greatly appriciated.

peter

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empirevr
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: peter]
      #82818 - 22/07/07 05:51 AM

Peter.....

I think you have brought me new hopes....

How bad was that barrel pitting as i cannot quite see it?

Many thanks

Ben

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peter
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: empirevr]
      #82819 - 22/07/07 06:19 AM

ben

no barrel pittin what so ever. slight rust where the lands and groovs meet, but it will vanish with the first few shootings.

peter

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DarylS
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: peter]
      #82821 - 22/07/07 06:34 AM

Looking pretty good. I'd cast laps in the bores and clean them up correctly, rather that relying on firing bullets to remove the rust, etc. A proper brushing might be all that's needed. Shooting bullets through them might imbed foreign matter into the bores, making pits - not a good thing. Clean them (remove rust) first.
: Congratulations on wanting to return the gun to usefulnes.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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peter
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: DarylS]
      #82867 - 22/07/07 10:03 PM

dont worry daryl

the barrels will get a through brushing before any shots is taken it is just my expirence that if i do it now the places where the rust are will get hit again if the period between the cleaning and the first shooting are to far apart.

peter

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rigbymauser
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: peter]
      #82869 - 22/07/07 11:19 PM

Hey Peter!

Looks great...looking foreward to see it one day..

I`ll call you once my 10 bore are in house..good to see someone overhere prize fine old guns..

I have an artical from Ross Siegfried about shooting the DR .577BPE 3" you must read!!.

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peter
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: rigbymauser]
      #82889 - 23/07/07 03:56 AM

hey rigby

please do i cant wait to see the 10 bore, i would like that article. go look at the single shot sektion at my new holland & holland rook shotgun, wood to die for.

peter

Edited by peter (23/07/07 03:58 AM)

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peter
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: peter]
      #82984 - 24/07/07 06:36 AM

the oil job will start in the morning, and hopefully will be done in a weeks time i will post pic along the way off the work involved in case you dident know allready.

p.s marrakai my father in law saw the photo of your stock and the remark was "think what i could have done with a job that straightforward" my reply was: it is on the other side of the world, but if you spring for the ticket, and do the work for free. i will pick it up and i think the owner would be thrillede. HE DIDENT GO FOR THAT. but i did try.

peter

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Marrakai
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: peter]
      #82996 - 24/07/07 06:55 PM

peter:
I checked the web-site you suggested: I wouldn't believe a word that guy says!

If you PM me a postal address, I'll send a colour photo-copy of the 20/.577 article if you can't think of an easier solution. It's no trouble.

I'm rather disappointed your father-in-law didn't go for the trip 'down-under'. Perhaps I should bring it over...
Could you trick him into thinking it's yours?

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Boss577
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: Marrakai]
      #83007 - 25/07/07 12:10 AM

Marraki and others,

It may come as a suprise to some, but I have "never" seen an original Alex Henry "hammer rifle" stock that did not have an extra piece added to the bottom of the grip.

Some are very tiny additions and some are maybe an inch deep. These are original to the rifles as they were manufactured! The joint is usually hidden in the chequering and therefore most people can't see the line. If you look under a loop you will see it.

There are many thoughts as to why this was done, and perhaps this will never be solved, but it was done. One thought is that all the Henry stocks were cut for a straight grip, and therefore needing an extra piece in the grip for rifles?

I have sold, and have owned many Henry rifles, and all had this treatment. Also I have handled many many more, all with the same thing.

This rifle that is beening restored would most likely have the same thing, as it is of the same time period as a lot of hammer rifles.

Just my eye, but this looks to be a restock. The grip angle, nose and cheekpiece seem odd on a Henry.

Good luck with the restoration, as I am a sucker for this kind of stuff, and have spent more time and money restoring guns and rifles, then they are worth.(to most people)

Take care,

Mark

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peter
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: Boss577]
      #83049 - 25/07/07 07:42 PM

hi mark

that sounds odd to me, since ataching the nose of the pistolgrip after the stock is cut will make that area weak for no good reason. these guns were made before series production took place and every one is a one off.

(The grip angle, nose and cheekpiece seem odd on a Henry.)

then marrakai and i are in a amusing situation since the stocks are pretty much identical and we are in very different parts of the world, the cheeckpeice is very much a signature for alex henry rifles because of its almost continental shape.

it looks like it this is one of the first hammerless rifles that came from a. henry , but im still trying to get the history on this one, which is not as easy as i hoped.

regards peter

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Boss577
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: peter]
      #83057 - 25/07/07 11:14 PM

Peter,

I know the added piece does not seem correct on a hand made piece, but trust me on that one.

"EVERY ONE" of the "Hammer" Alex Henry rifles I have seen, that were not restocked had this feature.

The reason I think your rifle has been restocked is that, the angle of the grip cap seems to be shallow. That is, not angled steep enough. The cheekpiece seems too heavy and not thin enough. I know the shape is the same, but it seems "to me" not thin enough.

I am not disparaging your rifle, I think it is a wonderful piece and can't wait to see the end result. I am mearly expressing my observations as "I" see them.

One way to usually tell a restock is to look at the inletting of the locks. All Alex Henry rifles have best quality lock inletting, that looks like the wood grew around the lock.


"Just some rambling on, from a man that lives in the sticks"

Take care,

Mark

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peter
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: Boss577]
      #83254 - 30/07/07 07:50 AM

hey boss577

all observations are welcome and appriciated, i have been out looking at 2 other alex henry rifles this week, couldent see the line, i was even allowed to remove the grip cap on one of them but no line. hmmmm i need to buy more a. henrys as the group of rifles examined were to small .

marrakai

i would like a photo of the front sight when you get the time, would i be right in the assumption that the sight should lie directly behind the center of the moon sight.

the oil job is nearly finished, the photo shoot of it will come on later when the smart half of my family get time on the computer again.

just ordered the dies, dident get the final price for them but the est. range made me think that i need other people to belive this is a grand round so the prices will come down.....

the grip cap is in paint stripper at the moment to get the smears of varnish of off that too(i could really punish this moron for attempting stuff on a fine toy like this)

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3sixbits
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: peter]
      #83263 - 30/07/07 10:08 AM

Do you really think you would have got it as cheap as you did "if" it had been done right?

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peter
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: 3sixbits]
      #83277 - 30/07/07 04:07 PM

i would have paid more if it hadent been tuched at all, hey i would continued bidding if others were on it to. this is not about money, because i see a big difference in the world prices, and i dont know enough about this to speculate on it, but dbl rifles are not as expensive up here at the moment.

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peter
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Re: alexander henry return to life [Re: peter]
      #83286 - 30/07/07 11:57 PM

just got off the phone with Dickson and Macnaughton (the owners of the name and keepers of the books) they were very helpfull and found the gun right away. since the pages are old and delicate a copy is out of the question but i will be allowed to do a coupple of photo shots of the pages when im in edinburgh.

so here is a few more scraps of info:

a. henry best gun in caliber 577
finished in 1888 as no. 1 of a pair.
lenght of pull 14,5"
the rest will come in late aug. when i am over there.

please look at there website they got some nice stuff. www.dicksonandmacnaughton.com

peter

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3sixbits
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Re: Alexander Henry return to life [Re: peter]
      #83346 - 01/08/07 03:54 AM

Quote:

i would have paid more if it have been touched at all, hey i would continued bidding if others were on it to. this is not about money, because i see a big difference in the world prices, and i dont know enough about this to speculate on it, but dbl rifles are not as expensive up here at the moment.



Again, if it had been untouched then you would have paid more. It's not important, you deal with what you have and go from there.

Not many of these rifles exist, o matter the level you take this rifle to, you will one day realize the investment back, had time with the rifle and enjoyed a rare piece of history.

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peter
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Re: Alexander Henry return to life [Re: 3sixbits]
      #83352 - 01/08/07 06:52 AM

Not many of these rifles exist, o matter the level you take this rifle to, you will one day realize the investment back, had time with the rifle and enjoyed a rare piece of history.

the gun is really growing on me so i think it is a keeper, now i just have to find the second of the pair...


regards peter

Edited by peter (01/08/07 06:54 AM)

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peter
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Re: Alexander Henry return to life [Re: peter]
      #85818 - 18/09/07 12:19 AM

no news so far on my gun but i just found a similar gun on holt auction the march main sale.


looks so good i could allmost cry, i think i need to rethink the recoloring of the action.

peter

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