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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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edmhunter
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Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns?
      #82208 - 11/07/07 10:04 AM

Who makes the best scope for low light conditions that can handle .375 or .416 recoil?

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peter
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: edmhunter]
      #82239 - 11/07/07 07:13 PM

zeiss or swarovski makes the best scopes ever.

peter

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iqbal
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: edmhunter]
      #82244 - 11/07/07 09:07 PM

Totally agree with Peter.Add another name Scmidt and Bender.

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3sixbits
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: iqbal]
      #82256 - 12/07/07 12:42 AM

S&B web site

One could say that this outfit is the King of low light scopes!

The best I've ever used ,and I have the other brands mentioned.

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rigbymauser
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: edmhunter]
      #82260 - 12/07/07 01:56 AM

Quote:

Who makes the best scope for low light conditions that can handle .375 or .416 recoil?



http://www.nickel-ag.com/en/products/scopes/15630.aspx

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500grains
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: rigbymauser]
      #82266 - 12/07/07 02:22 AM

Zeiss scopes have a very slick Teflon-like finish, so be sure to put a bit of rosin between your rings and the scope tube on a gun with recoil.

The most recoil-tolerant scope that I know of is the Leupold 2.5x compact. In matte finish, it doesn't slide in the rings either.

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smicha6551
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: 500grains]
      #82274 - 12/07/07 04:40 AM

How about Aimpoint scopes? There's no eye relief issue whatsoever and I know they're quite tough. I don't know how much they are being used on really heavily recoiling guns though. I really liked it on my .338 though.

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9.3x57
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: smicha6551]
      #82307 - 12/07/07 11:26 AM

I've had a Leupold 4X on my .375 for 20-something years and about 2000 full power rounds. Great scope, no problems.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Ripp
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #82327 - 12/07/07 10:04 PM

I have a Leupold 1.5 x5 on my .375 and a Leupold 1 3/4 to 6 on my .416--to date each has withstood several trips to Africa and several hundred rounds of ammo with no problems what so ever.

The reason I choose what I did is that I purchased a custom rifle for a gentleman in Texas who sells all brands mentioned--he stated that he has fewer Leupolds back than any other scope--

I also have Swarovskis on some of my longer range rifles in addition to having a couple pair of their bino's--agree their glass is second to none..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DUGABOY1
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: edmhunter]
      #82335 - 13/07/07 02:31 AM

PETER
zeiss or swarovski makes the best scopes ever.

iqbal
Totally agree with Peter.Add another name Scmidt and Bender. S&B web site

3sixbits
One could say that this outfit is the King of low light scopes!

The best I've ever used ,and I have the other brands mentioned.

RIPP
I have a Leupold 1.5 x5 on my .375 and a Leupold 1 3/4 to 6 on my .416--to date each has withstood several trips to Africa and several hundred rounds of ammo with no problems what so ever.

The reason I choose what I did is that I purchased a custom rifle for a gentleman in Texas who sells all brands mentioned--he stated that he has fewer Leupolds back than any other scope--

I also have Swarovskis on some of my longer range rifles in addition to having a couple pair of their bino's--agree their glass is second to none..


All the brands mentioned are good, some better than others. I've owned all the brands mentioned with the exception of a aim point, and I find them all well made, and good quality scopes. However price is not always a good rule to go by! In this vain, the S&B is a fine scope but I don't consider it to be enough better to be worth the $1500 USD difference between it and the Leupolds.
The Zeiss scopes are nice, but not as bright as the Leupolds, at twice the price! The Swaros are better than the zeiss scopes where light is the criteria, but they are heavy, as are all Europien scopes,as well as being too large in many cases.

All, are good in different ways, but when looked at from all angels! Price, sturdiness, warenty,light gathering, bulk, the winner in most of those is the Leupold line, IMO!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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xausa
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: edmhunter]
      #82346 - 13/07/07 07:55 AM

I find myself asking why someone would want to hunt dangerous game under low light conditions.

One of the things that used to puzzle me about German rifles I would see in the used gun racks was that some of the heaviest caliber rifles (.375 H&H, 9.3X64) carried scopes which looked like they belonged on varmint rifles. Then I learned that they were used for shooting wild boar from stands over potato fields in the moonlight. The rifles looked like full rigged ships with all the sails set. Certainly nothing you would want to carry hunting dangerous game on the ground.

It turns out that the German hunters use other scopes, usually low powered variables, for shooting driven game such as wild boar. Even so, German scopes tend to be very heavy, have large oculars and short eye relief.

My Krieghoff Teck double rifle has had a Lyman All American 2.5X scope on the .458 barrels and a Lyman All American 3X scope on the .375 H&H barrels for over 30 years now. However, my new Kreighoff Ulm 9.3X74R will have a Leupold 1.5-5X VariX III 30mm scope with illuminated reticle, as will my Krieghoff Teck .500 NE. I look forward to trying them out in the not too distant future. My Krieghoff Neptun drilling has a Leupold 1.5-5X VariX III in the 1" version, without the illumination, for its 8X65R rifle barrel.

My .577 C&W Winchester Model 70, on the other hand, is fitted with a Noske Field Scope Number 1, Type A, 2.5X with a 6" eye relief. Made in the '30's, the scope is holding up under significant recoil with evident ease. The cartridge is a shortened rimless version of the .577 NE, with identical ballistic performance. The rifle weighs about 13 pounds.

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9.3x57
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: xausa]
      #82363 - 13/07/07 01:03 PM

At the 1990 SHOT show the Burris table ran a light meter thru a rack of scopes. The Burris 1.75x6 was the brightest scope among those tested, including Zeiss. In fact, I was there when the Zeiss men showed up to determine if the schtick was for real.

It was.

We jobbed Burris, Zeiss, Swarovski and Leupold {all great scopes} at the time and, selling 4,000 guns per year, we fitted far more Burris scopes than any other AND RECEIVED FAR FEWER BURRIS BACK FOR REPAIRS THAN ANY OTHER MODEL. Yes, in those days they were that good.

I was a die-hard Burris man until a few years ago when, IMHO, the company began to fall apart. It has continued on doing a splendid job of destroying itself and promises to be a second runner up to Simmons any day now.

I won't buy another Burris, but I will buy Leupolds. They are a great scope for the money.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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osix
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #82387 - 13/07/07 06:19 PM

I've owned S&B in 1.5-6x42 and had opportunity to directly compare with both the Swarovski and Zeiss in the same size. The Swarovski is by far the brighter of the 3.
In fact I sold my S&B due to poor eye relief and very average low light performance.

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ozhunter
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: osix]
      #82392 - 13/07/07 11:39 PM

My pick is the Schmidt&Bender in 1.5-6 for 375 type calibers and 1.1-4 for the 416 range with "magnum eye relief".
I have seen too many mold and moisture problems with Swarovski.

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EricD
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: osix]
      #82403 - 14/07/07 04:02 AM

Quote:

I've owned S&B in 1.5-6x42 and had opportunity to directly compare with both the Swarovski and Zeiss in the same size. The Swarovski is by far the brighter of the 3.
In fact I sold my S&B due to poor eye relief and very average low light performance.



Was the S&B the Classic model, or the Zenith?

The newer Zenith has 90mm of eye relief, which is the same as the newer Zeiss and Swarovski's. If 90mm isn't enough eye relief to handle the recoil from a 375 or 416 class rifle, it sounds like the shooter is creeping up on the scope more that they should.

Erik

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3sixbits
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Dangerous game guns? [Re: EricD]
      #82426 - 14/07/07 12:34 PM

Brightness in a scope is an indication of poor coating, I know this flies in the face of what everybody thinks, oh well, so what. It's really the coatings on the lens that make or break it for a scope. Why do I say this, because what the eye equates as clarity is really truer color rendition of Light hitting the viewed object.

A clear pop bottle has brightness when you look through it.

I concur about the S&B 1.5 x 6. If I was going to use a scope for low light DG it would be this one. However I do prefer open sights for up close and personnel.

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osix
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Dangerous game guns? [Re: 3sixbits]
      #82482 - 15/07/07 04:48 PM

ErikD the S&B was the Classic model.
3sixbits my definition of brightness in a rifle scope is all about the ability to see the target in poor light.
Side by side comparison in fading light the Swaro was well ahead of the S&B.
If I thought that the S&B was close to the Swaro I'd still have it and wouldn't be $500 out of pocket

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #82778 - 21/07/07 11:46 AM

9ThreeXFifty7,

I am very curious about this test that you mention. Not an optical engineer myself, but my family own a 100 year old optical business and have been distributors for Zeiss, Carl Zeiss of Jena (during the Cild War years) Metro Optik of Czechoslovakia (Now Meopta) Bausch and Lomb, American Optical and several others. I have been to virtually every major European and Far Eastern plant manufacturing and coating lenses in the past and am more than a little familiar with the processes involved in designing and building scopes, though, ironically, I don't use any myself. I have, though, built several telescopes for fun grinding and edging the lenses myself and coating them with Leybold, Balzar and Satis vacuum coating units.

I would appreciate any more information you have on this test - it would help me improve my knowledge of a subject that I was at least partially involved in through my stockholding in my family's business over four decades.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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fivebigbores
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #82783 - 21/07/07 12:31 PM

Valve grinding compound in the rings \\\it is a sandy grease will mark your tube but there will be no slip slide \\\having scoped rifles in. 577 \ 510 wells express \ 500 ne \ 460 wby \458 \416 wby & rem & Taylor \and its a lotttt harder to keep a scope on the 378,378-338,378-30 wby non of the brits or germs have this hv energy to deal with lots of recoil and highest velocity recoil in the world so \\\ tally rings the grease and Leopold \\\me and the US gov found out the hard way the old continent scopes they are good cost 3 times the PRICE do the same job \\\ all market hype and flash if you need to whiz away the cash and show off have a ball \\\ they all shoot good some cost 2/3 's less took me $32,000 us in scopes \\\ and 6 months w snipers shooting em to get it \\\ so think about it

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EricD
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: fivebigbores]
      #82816 - 22/07/07 05:04 AM

Quote:

me and the US gov found out the hard way the old continent scopes they are good cost 3 times the PRICE do the same job \\\ all market hype and flash if you need to whiz away the cash and show off have a ball \\\ they all shoot good some cost 2/3 's less took me $32,000 us in scopes \\\ and 6 months w snipers shooting em to get it \\\ so think about it




As far as I know, several US military and civilian sniper units us the S&B PMII on their rifles. As do many other police and military units worldwide. And then there are the Zeiss/Hensoldt scopes which are used by countless sniper units worldwide. So the continental scopes clearly can't be all that bad.

As for scopes for big bores, I held/looked thru several scopes next to each other about a year ago, including Leupolds, S&B (the newer Zenith models), Zeiss (the newer Victory models) and Swarovski (not the newer Z6, as it hadn't come out yet). The Leupolds were not near the same class when it came to optics, field of veiw etc. compaired to the continental scopes IMO. Although they are generally a bit heavier and bigger. And unfortunately more expensive.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: EricD]
      #82862 - 22/07/07 05:52 PM

Well I have had a Leupold reticle which moved under the recoil of a .375 H&H alone.

I do have other Leupolds and the .375 now wears a different Leupold which I had on hand.

With the $$$ I would have no doubt they would all wear Swarovski, Schmidt and Bender, Kahles or Zeiss.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: fivebigbores]
      #82863 - 22/07/07 05:56 PM

Quote:

... me and the US gov found out the hard way the old continent scopes they are good cost 3 times the PRICE do the same job ...



That sounds very interesting. Could you share the actual results, whom the US gov't "unit" doing the testing was, and the context. Please share the information with us.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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9.3x57
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #82912 - 23/07/07 11:10 AM

Quote:

9ThreeXFifty7,

I am very curious about this test that you mention.



Mehulkamdar:

I wish I could tell you but I have no idea what the technical specs were of the device I saw. The arrangement was a simple rack that held a line of scopes. Into the objective lense was shined a small flashlight beam. At the eyepiece was a handheld device of some sort that had as I remember an analog dial that registered the light that was transmitted thru the scope.

NitroX: We sold many hundreds of scopes during my couple years running a retail outfit in the early '90's. ALL makes broke. Zeiss, Leupold, Burris, Swarovski. We sold far more Burris than any other make and we got back fewer Burris than any other make. That told me something. Burris scopes were tough scopes. And yes, we stuck them on .338's, .340's, many .300's. I am NOT saying that the other makes were bad scopes. Far from it. They are excellent scopes. But ALL break and ALL malfunction from time to time. As stated above, I would not buy a current-production Burris scope for a variety of reasons, but they used to be great scopes in my opinion. So are the others. I can't say that I believe the Zeiss and Swarovski scopes are better than the Leupold, and for that reason alone I would not spend the extra money on a Zeiss or Swarovski unless I just wanted one. They are great scopes, but I simply do not buy {literally...} the notion that they are worth the extra money they cost over the Leupold.

Re: Military use. We sold many Burris scopes to various Army and Air Force units mobilised for the first desert war in '91. Most of them went to an Engineer units who wanted them {so they said} for munitions destruction. Some went to individuals who were savvy enough to know that a scope is world's ahead of iron sights for almost any purpose under the sun except steady rain/sleet/snow, conditions they weren't too concerned about over there. At the time we sold a STANAG mount and a couple aftermarket mounts for the carrying handle on the M16 since the A4 model didn't yet exist. I never heard a single complaint about those scopes {mostly Signature series, matte black 1.5x6}. I've always wondered where they all went and where they all are now.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #82918 - 23/07/07 11:49 AM

9ThreeXFifty7,

To be honest, I cannot think of anything that a flashlight would prove with a scope and an analogue light meter. In any case, barring any more concrete information about this test, I should not make any judgement or presuppose what it might have been. I am, though, still curious about this test and would appreciate any pictures if you have them of the entire test that was carried out.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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9.3x57
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Re: Who makes the best scope for Danderous game guns? [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #82924 - 23/07/07 12:38 PM

Quote:

9ThreeXFifty7,

To be honest, I cannot think of anything that a flashlight would prove with a scope and an analogue light meter. In any case, barring any more concrete information about this test, I should not make any judgement or presuppose what it might have been. I am, though, still curious about this test and would appreciate any pictures if you have them of the entire test that was carried out.



I have no argument with you.

What I saw was that the other scope companies were very testy about this little display and Burris kept it right up.

Look, I do not want to overplay this little test. I merely stated what I saw because it was interesting to me and because it stirred the pot at the SHOT Show. Maybe it proved nothing. I have no idea. But what I do know is that Burris scopes were once upon a time darn good scopes and as far as light transmission is concerned, were very clear scopes, particularly the old Signature series.

If a guy wants to spend $2,000 for a rifle scope I have no problem with him. I guess what I am saying is that I don't feel the need to spend that much and I believe from my experience my choice of a Leupold will not lose me one single animal the guy who spent $2,000 will bag.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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