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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Bulletmold drawings for gaugeguns..
      #81914 - 06/07/07 02:46 AM

Hey guys..!

I have contacted a guy in australia for making me up a bulletmold for my upcomming 10 bore..but he couldn`t do it unless he had a drawing(very natually ofcouse).

Where can i find the measures for the 875-900 grain 10 bore bullet.I know the caliber is .775cal, but everything else is uncharted land for me..hahaha...

in all sincerety jens


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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Bulletmold drawings for gaugeguns.. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #81918 - 06/07/07 03:29 AM

Wal Winfer's book British Single Shot Rifles, Volume 5, Holland and Holland has a chapter on the Paradox guns including reference to the 10 bore. The chapter has line drawings of the 8, 10, 12 and 20 bore bullets. They are all pretty similar. There is a dimensioned drawing of the 12 bore bullet.

You might want to contact Mr. Winfer and see if he has a drawing. He is in Australia.

Is CBE making your bullet mould, they make a quality mould.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
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Re: Bulletmold drawings for gaugeguns.. [Re: DoubleD]
      #81920 - 06/07/07 04:12 AM

Quote:

Wal Winfer's book British Single Shot Rifles, Volume 5, Holland and Holland has a chapter on the Paradox guns including reference to the 10 bore. The chapter has line drawings of the 8, 10, 12 and 20 bore bullets. They are all pretty similar. There is a dimensioned drawing of the 12 bore bullet.

You might want to contact Mr. Winfer and see if he has a drawing. He is in Australia.

Is CBE making your bullet mould, they make a quality mould.




Thanks Double D....I`LL go bookhunting....Yes maybe i should contact Mr Winfer....talked to him earlier about making the farquaharson action...which he do no more...unfortunatly..!!


jens

Edited by rigbymauser (06/07/07 04:16 AM)


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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
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Re: Bulletmold drawings for gaugeguns.. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #81921 - 06/07/07 04:28 AM

Hi Rigby Mauser
Don't use an existing drawing. Make one that will fit YOUR GUN.
Here's how you do it.

Make a bore casting, or a soft slug imprint of your bore. Then factor in your twist.

The actual weight is not important. What's important is the Sectional density of the projectial. If you have a 1-88 twist for example, you'd make the bullet with a wide meplat and a short ogive of about 1/4 the bullets length. (I would use a .600 ogive)
Now establish your bullets length. (That's why you need to know the twist rate)

Let's say it's 1.125" long That would leave about .930" for the shank of the bullet.
Make the shank so that it's .002 Smaller than the BORE diameter of your barrel, and the top land about .002" larger than the groove diameter. (The lube grooves will give you the lands.)

Make your drawing to give you 2 lube grooves in the shank portion of the bullet, with the bottom groove being 2X wider then the top groove. If I were making the mold for myself, I would make the bottom lube groove about .250" long, and then make the top groove about .100" long.

Now, position the bottom of the bottom lube groove about .200 from the bullets base. Position the top edge of the top groove only about .040 from the top edge of the shank, where the shank turns into the ogive.

When you are done you will have a bullet design that give you very good performance. And it will fit YOUR rifle.

I hope I made this all clear.
If you have questions, write to me a szihn@wyoming.com and I may be able to help you. I would draw it for you, if you can give me your bore and groove diameters, and your twist, and e-mail it to you.


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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Bulletmold drawings for gaugeguns.. [Re: szihn]
      #81925 - 06/07/07 05:36 AM

Quote:

Hi Rigby Mauser
Don't use an existing drawing. Make one that will fit YOUR GUN.
Here's how you do it.

Make a bore casting, or a soft slug imprint of your bore. Then factor in your twist.

The actual weight is not important. What's important is the Sectional density of the projectial. If you have a 1-88 twist for example, you'd make the bullet with a wide meplat and a short ogive of about 1/4 the bullets length. (I would use a .600 ogive)
Now establish your bullets length. (That's why you need to know the twist rate)

Let's say it's 1.125" long That would leave about .930" for the shank of the bullet.
Make the shank so that it's .002 Smaller than the BORE diameter of your barrel, and the top land about .002" larger than the groove diameter. (The lube grooves will give you the lands.)

Make your drawing to give you 2 lube grooves in the shank portion of the bullet, with the bottom groove being 2X wider then the top groove. If I were making the mold for myself, I would make the bottom lube groove about .250" long, and then make the top groove about .100" long.

Now, position the bottom of the bottom lube groove about .200 from the bullets base. Position the top edge of the top groove only about .040 from the top edge of the shank, where the shank turns into the ogive.

When you are done you will have a bullet design that give you very good performance. And it will fit YOUR rifle.

I hope I made this all clear.
If you have questions, write to me a szihn@wyoming.com and I may be able to help you. I would draw it for you, if you can give me your bore and groove diameters, and your twist, and e-mail it to you.




hey SZihn..

Champlin firearms in oklahoma will slug the bore for me+ determin the twistrate so I get the the real picture. Originally the 10 bore brasscartridge had a bore of .775cal and the papercartridge a little less. Yes...i had thought of making the mold a slight different...but only slight. I have studied that these gaugerifles shot hardned lead which are sometimes very easy to shoot like a jacketbullet as they don`t foule as much. It appears the old gaugerifles slugs all had a wadcutting design in which I will keep if it will work?.. I had myself thought of a bulletlenght of 30mm or 1.18" and lubegrooves of +.35". The 10gauge burns 8 drams of blackpowder so i guess a lot of bulletlube is needed..hahaha.
I will contact you later or a s soon champlin firearms supply me with info(you are more than welcome to call them). I really appreciate any help regarding this project. I have just heard Rocky Mountain Cartridge 10 gauge shotgunbrass are not so strong for the rifleloads?. I am going to see for myself when ordering some to start with.

thanks again


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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: Bulletmold drawings for gaugeguns.. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #81926 - 06/07/07 06:07 AM

Sounds like a fun project. Let me know how it all turns out.

Steve


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3592
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Bulletmold drawings for gaugeguns.. [Re: szihn]
      #81953 - 06/07/07 11:43 PM

rigbymauser:
These photos of original fully-rifled bore-gun projectiles may be of some use:

8-Bore



12-Bore:


Photos of the Fosbery (Paradox-type) projectiles are more common because they were considered more interesting than the normal conical ball. These conical ball cartridge photos are from George Hoyem, Vol.3. I'd recommend finding a copy of that fine publication if you are serious about bore-gun chamberings, and British sporting ammunition in general.

szihn is quite right: it is just a conical slug, with shallow lube grooves. Cut your mold to give a projectile a thou or two over groove-diameter, in the correct weight range, of the approximate shape shown above. Simple!

Hope this is of some help.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Bulletmold drawings for gaugeguns.. [Re: Marrakai]
      #81954 - 07/07/07 12:58 AM

Thanks Marrakai!

Yes..it helps..thanks for the illustrations...I have a great interest in british sporting ammunitions as well as the guns. I am becomming more and more found of the old gauge calibers which for me reprensent the brute, unadulted smashingpower of the thrue elephant gun. Much more intersting because so much history/hunting is writen with these guns.

thanks again


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