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Stuart:
No need to apologise for contributing to a discussion on iron sights. You have raised a very valid point, one that Ross Seyfried published an article on years ago, although in your case I believe you would be better-off with a platinum insert, so it will still be there after you have pushed through a brushy gully!

Coming from a highly successful pistol-shooting background, Seyfried realised that the standard pistol 'iron' sight, consisting of a deep square notch and flat-top blade, operates like a peep-sight. The shooter does not focus on the rear sight, just the front sight. The wide deep rear notch is there simply to provide a light-gap on either side of the front blade, in the same manner as an aperture sight.

Seyfried set this sight up on an early Remington .416 rifle from memory, and guided in Africa with it for several seasons.

OK, so why not just 'go the whole hog' and fit an aperture? The pistol-style irons look more traditional in their position on the barrel I guess, and are a bit of a hybrid in that they can still be used as a precision sight by bringing both the front and rear sights into focus, if you have time.

Anyway, I shoot pistols myself, and quickly recognized the merit of this sighting system. Although I have never fitted-up a rifle that way myself, I have always kept it in mind, and it may suit other posters here as well as yourself, Stuart.

PS: to get the best out of this system, you would need to widen and deepen the rear notch on that Martini I reckon. The depth could be 3 or 4 times as deep although I realize the sight body might not permit this. Ideally it should be wide enough to permit a light gap in the order of 1/3 to 1/2 the width of your front blade, on either side.
Anyway, food for thought......

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Exactly!

I don't remember Seyfried mentioning this but it is true and the WIDE rear notch flat topped front post is as I said the best I've found. To say that the rear sight is used as an aperture is really pretty close to the truth.

Why not an aperture?

I know all the standard "truths" about how an aperture is the fastest of all irons to use, etc, but I have found that for me in very poor light it is unreliable. I'm not certain why. Since it isn't "looked at" it shouldn't be an issue, but it is nevertheless. Is my eye not centering because it doesn't have enough sight to subconsciously see? I have no idea. I prefer the big billboard rear with a big wide notch and a thick, front post.

I generally do not like permanent sight inserts; permanent lines, dots, triangles or whatnot. They may be fine for use in Africa or Australia where the background colors generally stay the same, but for me I do not like to be tied to one type or color. I prefer to add my own as needed, if needed which is not all the time.

My iron-sighted rifles are genrally used in, as I mentioned, bad weather. In driving rain, common typing "White Out" on a degreased front blade serves perfectly to make the thing stand out against the background. For snow though, the black sight is preferable. Other colors can be used depending on the background of the terrain.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9ThreeXFifty7 (24/06/07 12:38 PM)

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No need to apologise for contributing to a discussion on iron sights. You have raised a very valid point, one that Ross Seyfried published an article on years ago, although in your case I believe you would be better-off with a platinum insert, so it will still be there after you have pushed through a brushy gully!

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I realized after posting that I should have mentioned that the front sight stripe isn't all that durable. (And it's not practical to try and fit a "window" hood to it.) I agree about widening and deepening the rear notch. I'm also thinking of looking for an appropriate Parker-Hale rear aperture sight, which I would probably enlarge the aperture on.

I miss Ross's articles in Rifle Magazine. Apparently he didn't get along with the staff, though and was let go.

Stuart

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Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by
smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles
who really mean it. (Mark Twain)

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9ThreeXFifty7:
Apologies, missed the significance of your description. Hope my discourse added something of value. How 'bout posting a photo of your set-up? I shall try to find a pic of Seyfried's .416 Remington to post.

Seyfried is certainly an acquired taste. Sometimes he just plain gives me the sh!ts with his "I alone have discovered the secret of shooting vintage British guns, and will now share it with the world!" when the rest of us have been quietly doing so successfully for decades. It's true though, there are so few American authors with any understanding of vintage Brit, we should be very grateful for anything he writes. ...and in truth I am.

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Nah, my bad. I reread that thing and it sounded crusty. Edited.

As for Seyfried, I think your description is spot on. I, too pretty much always liked what he wrote, just sometimes got annoyed with the way he wrote it!

I'll see if I can get a pic posted.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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I think apertures stink and avoid them.

I saw the article by Seyfried years ago and made my own set of Patridge sights for a Ruger #1 which worked great except that they weren't all that good when aiming at anything small.

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Aw, c'mon, how do you really feel?

I agree. I've used aperture sights for hunting on a couple of trips, and will never make that mistake again. I have enough trouble with them in strong light, and find them utterly useless in bad. The U and square notch stuff with a sourdough post are fine on the range, but if they're large enough to pick up quickly, they're too coarse to be of any use to me for serious hunting.

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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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I think apertures stink and avoid them.


I agree. I've used aperture sights for hunting on a couple of trips, and will never make that mistake again. I have enough trouble with them in strong light, and find them utterly useless in bad. The U and square notch stuff with a sourdough post are fine on the range, but if they're large enough to pick up quickly, they're too coarse to be of any use to me for serious hunting.

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I agree 100% with the above..For fast work with a double I like the rear V-shaped with a smaller bead in the front--have tried many others but this seems to work the best for me.

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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I think apertures stink and avoid them.


I agree. I've used aperture sights for hunting on a couple of trips, and will never make that mistake again. I have enough trouble with them in strong light, and find them utterly useless in bad. The U and square notch stuff with a sourdough post are fine on the range, but if they're large enough to pick up quickly, they're too coarse to be of any use to me for serious hunting.

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I agree 100% with the above..For fast work with a double I like the rear V-shaped with a smaller bead in the front--have tried many others but this seems to work the best for me.

Ripp

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These posts are why these forums are really interesting to me.

While I myself generally agree with the first part and also have misgivings about apertures which I find great at the range but difficult to use in the field, I absolutely 100% disagree with these fellows in regards to the use of the notch and post/sourdough for field use. I find that setup to combine precision with speed and have used that and the bead enough on game and varmints sitting or running to know which works for me.

I never thought about the pistol issue. I pretty much live with a pistol on me and for many years I have shot a fair amount of pistol on varmints and livestock and they have similar sights. Is that the reason I like them? Maybe you guys are right!

Lesson learned here in this thread is that there are differences of preference. If I were a guy that had experience only with scoped rifles and was to buy a $20,000 double, I'd sure as shootin' want to get some experience with different sights in order to make sure the thing was sighted for me. A good idea for a prospective buyer might be to buy a cheap bolt rifle and shoot that with wide vee/bead, notch/sourdough, peep/bead and peep/sourdough. Might save a lot of heartache and some dough in the long run.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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