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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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stoerte
.224 member


Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 7
Loc: Germany
Red dot on DR?
      #70908 - 06/02/07 09:14 PM

A scoped DR has advantages as most of us, or at least I , can shoot more accurately with a scope than with iron sights.
BUT IMHO it also has huge disadvantages:
1. the scope changes the balance of the rifle considerably.
2. limited field of view
3. you can not get it off quick enough when you need to (even with a QR mount), at least I don't.
but the biggest disadvantage for me is that the line of sight is so much higher, meaning the position of the head is completely different and I fell like a giraffe!
It seems to screw up the way I mount the gun.

So I thought it might be an elegant solution to put a red dot reflex sight on it, probably a DocterSight:
http://www.docter-germany.com/frontend/index.php?itid=230

In Germany many use them for driven boar and I think it would be a way to work around the disadvantages of a scope.

Has any of you any experience with a red dot mounted low onto a DR, or what do you think in general of this idea?


Stoerte

--------------------
It is possible to kill an ele with a 6.5 Mannlicher, but I don't want to discover that I don't belong to those who can!

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Red dot on DR? [Re: stoerte]
      #70911 - 06/02/07 11:49 PM


Great idea.

I played with a mates 9.3 x 74R with one on the other day.

If I ever put a scope on one of my DR's (English), I'll put one of these on it.

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stoerte
.224 member


Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 7
Loc: Germany
Re: Red dot on DR? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #70918 - 07/02/07 02:07 AM

500Nitro,

thanks for your reply.

Do you by any chance know what mount your mate has on it, or have you got (could you get) a photo of it?

--------------------
It is possible to kill an ele with a 6.5 Mannlicher, but I don't want to discover that I don't belong to those who can!

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Red dot on DR? [Re: stoerte]
      #70920 - 07/02/07 02:32 AM


He got our gunsmith to make it.

The gun was a Beretta O/U Gold Label in 9.3 x 74R

From memory, it was a slip over the rib and then held on by
2 small screws that pressed against the rib.

It holds it's zero.

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Lee440
.224 member


Reged: 06/01/06
Posts: 47
Loc: Texas
Re: Red dot on DR? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #71004 - 08/02/07 01:25 PM

I'm surprised the lynch mob has'nt jumped in on this one! On the same lines, I wonder how the Arneson OEG would work, they are very compact and light.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Red dot on DR? [Re: Lee440]
      #71010 - 08/02/07 04:44 PM


lee


what is a Arneson OEG ?

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Red dot on DR? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #71018 - 08/02/07 06:57 PM

Like the very first ones back in the late 60s.

OEG stands for Occluded Eye Gunsight, and Trijicon think they just invented them!

Try www.trijicon.com

Sorry, went and had a look, correct URL is here:
http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/parts_new.cfm?categoryID=6

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

Edited by Marrakai (08/02/07 07:00 PM)

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Red dot on DR? [Re: Marrakai]
      #71024 - 08/02/07 07:58 PM

I am a big believer in scopes for double rifles.
There is no reason why a "red dot" sight would not work. It would be especially good on 450 and up doubles as there is no way it can hi9t you in the face. I would have it mounted as low as possible in claw mounts.

I talked to the Zeiss people at the DSC and he assured me their Z Point it would take the recoil of a 470.

It works off of a Solar cell in daylight and used a battery when necessary.

I have been shooting one on a Blaser R 93.

The Blaser Hit Pro made by S&B would also be a good choice.

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EricD
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Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Red dot on DR? [Re: stoerte]
      #71029 - 08/02/07 11:11 PM

Stoerte,

A French member of ours called Larcher has a Doctor sight for his Chapuis 470NE. I think he got a local gunsmith to make a mount allowing it to be removed and put on again with no change in POI.

Erik

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larcher
.416 member


Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: Red dot on DR? [Re: EricD]
      #71035 - 09/02/07 01:28 AM

Hi Stoerte
Wie Geht's?
On my chapuis 470NE I have had a Docter red dot installed by a part-time gunsmith in Germany.
That's really fantastic for it's very tiny and can be removed in 2 seconds and accurately reinstalled in 2 seconds as well.
Not cumbersome at all and best of all..............I can see the red spot. Funny ? No.
I am redblind (rotblind)and none the less I can see and aim very fast. Yet I haven't kill anything with this rifle, first I have to regulate it with the loads I am cooking.
In my opinion this is a very nice red spot. The Zeiss in another option but it's bigger and more expensive.
Good luck
jb

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

Edited by larcher (09/02/07 01:30 AM)

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stoerte
.224 member


Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 7
Loc: Germany
Re: Red dot on DR? [Re: larcher]
      #71043 - 09/02/07 02:49 AM

Thanks for all your replies.

Lee440, you are right, it is quite astonishing that there are no people shouting HERESY (yet).

I think that the Docter sight would probably be the most suitable as it weighs less than most bullets for these rifles and is as far as I know the lowest of all.
The only question is what the ideal mount would be.
It probably should have these features:
1. it should be kind of "keyhole surgery" so the rifle is not altered too much
2. it should be VERY low, just clearing the iron sights, so that it doesn't "feel" different when you mount
3. and this would be the hardest combining it with 1&2, it should be quickly removable without changing POI when put on again.

Any ideas?

Larcher,
could you post some photos of your Chapuis?

Stoerte

--------------------
It is possible to kill an ele with a 6.5 Mannlicher, but I don't want to discover that I don't belong to those who can!

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Red dot on DR? [Re: stoerte]
      #71044 - 09/02/07 03:00 AM



Suggestion guys.


Try to buy a Green dot one as it is easier
to see in Daylight. AND if possible, get one
which the dot can be changed in size.

Like one of the previous posters said,
I am also colourblind Red / Green.

Also, the military is going to green and having
used MG's like H&K's etc with Red,
I can understand why they are going to Green.

Same as lasers - always try to get a green one.

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Bonde
.333 member


Reged: 16/02/06
Posts: 278
Loc: Norway
Re: Red dot on DR? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #71052 - 09/02/07 04:54 AM

Red dot sight:

I'm thinking of doing the same with my .470.. It doesn't feel too good to make alterations to an otherwise tidy DR...but I really miss haveing a scope...

The dockter is probably THE best alternative. What about mounts? I've thought of the rear german claw mount as an alternative? I know that it has been used to fit a ghost ring. but it cost a lot...

Any old English-style slide mounts that work fine? After studying the Dockter I find it to be difficult to get a really low mount? It need some sort of upper base??

I'd be very pleased if Larcher somehow could post a few pictures of his C-.470 for us to see how it's done?

Best regards

--------------------
------------------------------------------------------
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill

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Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Red dot on DR? [Re: Bonde]
      #71054 - 09/02/07 05:35 AM

Once I borrowed a rifle on a driven boar hunt, it was a Merkel 8x57jrs with a Docter "red dot" on it. I was really impressed, as many have said its small and handy to use, and its real fast.

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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watto
.275 member


Reged: 10/06/07
Posts: 90
Loc: Victoria,Australia
Re: Red dot on DR? [Re: Chasseur]
      #80822 - 17/06/07 01:43 PM

G'day all,
I just found this thread on red dots and thought I would add my experience with them. I have used them on both a .303 smle sporter and a .458wm. and intend using one on an o/u DR. They both were cheap Chinese versions, but both worked extremely well. The fact of fast target acquisition with both eyes open as has already been stated is very real. Another very usefull point is that the dot is sized by moa, so is always a known factor at any given range. eg: 4moa dot being 4" at 100yds but 8" at 200yds
gives you an accurate gauge for holdover. The one on my .458wm Ruger #1 Tropical Rifle handled the recoil with with no loss of accuracy (max loads), but was totalled by a friend dropping some gear on it while away on a hunting trip. So care is needed with the light alloy construction.

All the best, Ian.

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watto
.275 member


Reged: 10/06/07
Posts: 90
Loc: Victoria,Australia
Re: Red dot on DR? [Re: watto]
      #80830 - 17/06/07 10:25 PM

I thought after posting my last comments on the red dot sight, that the feature of the minute of angle of the dot, could be utilized on a DR that was having trouble with regulation, in the manner of the two sight system on the Pedersoli. For instance if the bullets were striking 4" apart at 100yds, the sight could be adjusted so they were both striking on opposite edges of a 4" dot. I am not suggesting that this is the prefered option but it could be a solution for somebody with a cheaper gun that was not worth spending a lot of money on. Obviously you would firstly have to check that they had not crossed in closer.

Good Shooting, Ian.

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