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Sam
.224 member


Reged: 11/04/06
Posts: 11
Spartan s/s
      #80315 - 11/06/07 07:48 AM

Have somebody been watching/tried this gun?
For USD 700,- it must be worth buying it anyway.
I choose the 45-70.


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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: Sam]
      #80323 - 11/06/07 10:03 AM

Most say it isnt very strong.....

Might be fun but forget hot loads and such.....

Zoli and others make good low price doubles.

Ben


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dougk
.224 member


Reged: 18/04/07
Posts: 11
Loc: Driftwood, TX
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: empirevr]
      #80330 - 11/06/07 11:12 AM

I have a Baikal, which is a great combo for the money. Because of my success with the Baikal I picked up a Spartan in a 12/223 configuration. After several attempts at repair EAA, to their credit, fixed the situation. However, I will not be purchasing a Spartan, the quality control on the barrel regulation appears to be worse now that Remington is involved.
Doug


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watto
.275 member


Reged: 10/06/07
Posts: 90
Loc: Victoria,Australia
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: dougk]
      #80343 - 11/06/07 02:29 PM

G'day all from Ian (aka watto) in Oz.

Firstly congratulations on a fantastic site! I have just joined and this is my first post. I live in a rural area called Lindenow, near the town of Bairnsdale in eastern Victoria. I have a baikal 45/70 sxs on order which is supposed to land here in the next 2 or 3 weeks, after chasing one for 2 years approximately. I had ideas of pretty well immediately doing a re-chamber to .450 Alaskan, but have since been advised that the action probably would not be strong enough. So then I came up with what I thought was a pretty crazy idea of using the Baikal barrels and the action of a Fausti 12g sxs and having a good gunsmith addapt them together. While researching the idea I came accross this site and here I am. The 12g looks to be in excellent condition and I have spoken to Mialls Gunshop in Frankston Vic, which is about a 4 hour drive from my place and they have said they can do the conversion for me. The thing that prompted me to write was the previous post in this thread that seemed to suggest that the regulating system did not work. When I contacted Mialls, who I believe do a fair amount of work on traditional doubles, they stated that the had been playing with a 30/06 Baikal sxs and had it putting both barrels virtually through the same hole. I did not think to ask the range, but for that cal I would suspect it would be 100yds. They suggested the conversion would be probably about twice the cost of the new rifle ($1,300Au) making the overall cost a little over $4k including the 12g. If I am going to that expense (maybe not straight away) I am open to other suggestions as to more traditional calibers than the .450 Alaskan. My main hunting is for Sambar deer in the nearby hills, and I will use the double when hunting in heavy cover areas. I would also like to do a Buff hunt up the top end at some stage, and also before I become too feeble, maybe sell my yacht, sell my car, send my wife back to work and do the African thing that I have dreamed about since I was about 12. My current rifles are a Ruger 22/77 Hornet, an SMLE No3 .303 sporter and a .300 WSM Tika T3 Lite in mat s/s. I have previously owned a Pedersolli percussion DR in .58, but could not get it shooting well no matter what loads I tried. I also nearly purchased a .50 Alaskan DR which I believe ended up going to Darwin, so one of you blokes up there may have come accross it.

All the best, Ian.


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: watto]
      #80344 - 11/06/07 02:37 PM


Watto

Welcome.

I think the range at Miall's is 50 yards - and IMHO, you don't want the bullets touching at 50 yards as if they started out at 1" apart, it means they are converging so they will soon cross.

The .50 Alaskan DR - was that the one in Balwyn gunshop ?


By the way, also talk to Bob at Kudu Services in Montrose.
Tel No and address in the back of the SSAA Magazine.


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watto
.275 member


Reged: 10/06/07
Posts: 90
Loc: Victoria,Australia
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: 500Nitro]
      #80345 - 11/06/07 02:50 PM

G'day and thanks for the welcome. I guess the "through the same hole" could be a figure of speech, but the point he was making was that the barrel regulating system seemed to work well. Thanks for the suggestion about Kudu, I had thought about contacting Bob, who has done a couple of jobs for me previously but just happened to contact Mialls first. I will give Bob a call and get his input on the idea. And in answer to your question about the .50 Alaskan yes it was at Whitehorse Arms in the Balwyn/Box Hill area. I believe it was built in Sydney on a Aya 12g sxs action.

Ian.


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: watto]
      #80346 - 11/06/07 02:56 PM



That 50 Alaskan was a nice piece
and a cheap way for someone to get
into a "bigger" sized DR even if it
was not full Nitro !


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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: 500Nitro]
      #80354 - 11/06/07 10:47 PM

A .50 AK double sounds pretty interesting since due to increased case capacity a guy might be able to run heavy .45-70 type loads at much less pressure than that generated by the full house .50 AK. I know the guns take 50K psi loads from other rounds, but isn't the backthrust of a .348 Win case head size at 50K a little worrisome to anyone?

I realize they are not exactly the same thing, but as for regulation, I used to own three Baikal combo guns, all over-unders; one .30-06/12 ga, 2 7x57R/12 gauges. All sold in a flurry of horse tradin'.

I easily got the .30-06 and one of the 7x57R's to put a rifle bullet, rifled slug and buckshot pattern printing POA at 25-30 meters which was fine for me. The third 7x57R was pure unadulterated misery. I had both elevation and windage problems no amount of ammo swapping or barrel-monkeying would fix. Since at that point the third gun was all I had, I gave up on them as an unregulated two-barrel gun is dang near worse than a handful of rocks in my opinion. EAA couldn't fix the third combo gun either.

I have since read of a lot of regulation problems with these guns, to which the wise man says of course "Ya get what'cha pay for."

Nevertheless, I have a soft spot for them. My then 13-year-old son used one to "bayonet" a small bear that was literally at my ankles and which had already taken all six rounds from my .44 revolver. For that reason alone I wouldn't mind getting another and giving it another whirl. I have read of but not seen side-by-side 7x57R's from Baikal and such would be welcome here as I still have lots of ammo in that caliber.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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450
.300 member


Reged: 30/12/06
Posts: 199
Loc: Melbourne,Victoria, Australia
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: 9.3x57]
      #80403 - 12/06/07 07:48 AM


Watto.

Welcome to the forum. The amount of information you can pick up is tremendous. I have a baikal O/U in 9.3x74R which I have shot about 400 rounds through now. I have written about this rifle on ealier posts on this forum. I am getting the 270 grain speer out at 2300 Fps and there is room to push this to 2400fps if you want. IMHO this cartridge would be a better sambar round than the 45.70 with light loads and I also think the O/C is a stronger action than the side by side Baikal. I have shot both and the O/U is more comfortable to shoot.

This rifle is a plain jane solid outfit. It is not a merkel etc. The regulating device DOES work on my rifle and I can regulate the rifle to any bullet load. This will come in handy in October when I go to N.T. after buffalo. Woodleigh 286 grainers will be my choice.

McDonalds Gunshop in Footscray have 3 of these 9.3x74R left for about $1450.00. To spend $4000.00 buying and converting a baikel to another calibre is a lot of money, as it is still a baikal. For $3500.00 you can get a nice fabarm 9.3x74R with ejectors and such and for a few dollars extra you can pick up a set of 20 gauge barrels. For $5500.00 you can get a new Beretta Silver sable double 9.3x74R. Both of these rifles are much better looking than the baikal, but I do not think they shoot any better.

Just a few more options for you to think about.. PM if you want more information.

Wayne

--------------------
The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work


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watto
.275 member


Reged: 10/06/07
Posts: 90
Loc: Victoria,Australia
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: 450]
      #80409 - 12/06/07 09:51 AM

Thanks for your thoughts Wayne. Is the Fabarm a sxs or u/o? Even though at a practical level there is probably no reason, I have always had a desire to own a sxs DR. I guess it is the romantic in me with dreams of times gone by. I know that arguments are sometimes put forward about the difference in reload times, but I think that would be affected much more by what animal was coming toward you and at what speed, or as would be much more likely in my position, running away from me. In the country I mainly hunt it is a great hunt when you see a Sambar, even better when you get to take a shot and a miracle if you get a chance at a second, so I can forget the reload argument. I also think the broad sighting plane of the sxs could be slightly quicker for target acquisition when a quick shot is required. Having said all that I might give McDonalds a ring about the 9.3's.

Ian


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: watto]
      #80414 - 12/06/07 11:14 AM


Watto


Regardless of Practice, O/U doubles are definately
slower to reload.

The same as some SxS DR's with very big third bites
can be - until you are used to them - slower than
other side by sides.


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450
.300 member


Reged: 30/12/06
Posts: 199
Loc: Melbourne,Victoria, Australia
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: watto]
      #80415 - 12/06/07 11:16 AM

Watto.

I would like to own a good quality side by side too. My budget(and the war department at home) decides what I can buy and what I can not buy. The Fabarm is an O/U. My Baikal is going to be used on Sambar as well as buffalo and I hope scrub bulls along with general hunting of ferals. It is personal choices that differ. I have no regrets now buying the baikal as it has done everything I have asked so far. With me retiring this Friday, it should with my other rifles see a lot more hunting and shooting now. Good luck with your quest.

Wayne

--------------------
The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work


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450
.300 member


Reged: 30/12/06
Posts: 199
Loc: Melbourne,Victoria, Australia
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: 450]
      #80416 - 12/06/07 11:23 AM

Watto

As an add on, I can get 4 shots out of the baikal in 12 seconds reasonably easy and that is with extracters. A side by side with extracters would not be much faster IMHO. Ejectors are much quicker. I would suggest that two shots on a sambar is about all you will get in most cases if you are lucky.

Wayne

--------------------
The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work


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RLI
.375 member


Reged: 01/10/03
Posts: 534
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: watto]
      #80417 - 12/06/07 11:34 AM

If you are going to spend $4000 plus why noy get a Pedersoli double in 45/70 and I think they come in 9.3 as well or run the credit card another $4000 up and look around for a Merkel you might get lucky and get a used one.

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

Edited by RLI (12/06/07 11:40 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39309
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: RLI]
      #80429 - 12/06/07 02:40 PM

I really don't understand why as soon as a "Spartan" is mentioned, why people want to immediately modify it especially for larger cartridges?

It is an el-cheapo thing to start off with, certainly not a lot of value into sinking lots of money modifying it, and for larger chamberings, if it was safe, wouldn't the makers have done it?

Buy one and use it as it is. Or buy something better and have something with better re-sale value later.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: NitroX]
      #80430 - 12/06/07 02:59 PM



Or buy a cheap shotgun action (Greener)
and make that into a 45/70 !

I agree - if it was feasable, the manufacturers would have done it as they know how high demand is.


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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: NitroX]
      #80442 - 12/06/07 10:16 PM

Quote:

I really don't understand why as soon as a "Spartan" is mentioned, why people want to immediately modify it especially for larger cartridges?

It is an el-cheapo thing to start off with, certainly not a lot of value into sinking lots of money modifying it, and for larger chamberings, if it was safe, wouldn't the makers have done it?

Buy one and use it as it is. Or buy something better and have something with better re-sale value later.




+1

If you get a good one consider yourself Favored and don't push things any further than that...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: 9.3x57]
      #80449 - 12/06/07 10:42 PM



Nitro X - Well said

9Three
"If you get a good one consider yourself Favored and don't push things any further than that... "


In your dreams !

You know how people like to push the envelope.


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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: 500Nitro]
      #80452 - 12/06/07 10:56 PM

Quote:



In your dreams !

You know how people like to push the envelope.




I'm sorry.

Is this better?

"If you get a good one consider yourself Favored and go ahead and modify the thing to your heart's content using a cartridge and load that requires the most extensive removal of metal from the barrels, forces total reworking of the extractors and maximises back thrust and please post pictures of gun and groups after attempting to shoot a minimum of 500 rounds of maximum pressure loads or feel free to dictate through your nose tube the results to a friend and have said friend post here until you are released from hospital and/or the care of your psychiatrist."

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: 9.3x57]
      #80453 - 12/06/07 11:14 PM


9Three


Very good indeed.


To be honest, with all the "home grown" DR's and modifications
people talk about, I am surprised we don't see more "accidents".


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watto
.275 member


Reged: 10/06/07
Posts: 90
Loc: Victoria,Australia
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: 500Nitro]
      #80469 - 13/06/07 07:53 AM

Thank you Wayne, John and others for your thoughts and suggestions.
I have been in contact with McDonalds Wayne and as soon as I can get to Melbourne I will go and have a look at the u/o 9.3's. I think the point was missed that my idea was never to just re-chamber the Baikal, but to utilise the .458 barrels with their regulating system, and have them adapted by a good gunsmith to fit the Fausti 12G sxs action. I thought that would work out easier than going through the whole saga of starting with blank barrels. In any case I have given the idea away since hearing the weakness with the Bailals was not in the action, but in the barrel, with the 45/70.

Thanks, Ian.


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450
.300 member


Reged: 30/12/06
Posts: 199
Loc: Melbourne,Victoria, Australia
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: watto]
      #80504 - 13/06/07 10:55 AM

Watto.

If you would ike to shoot the 9.3 before you buy one, let me know a few days before you come down to McDonalds and I will meet you and take you for a shot.

Wayne

--------------------
The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work


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Michael
.275 member


Reged: 28/07/05
Posts: 69
Loc: Darwin, Northern Territory
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: 450]
      #80518 - 13/06/07 02:12 PM

Is the 45/70 sxs double being introduced by Baikal in Australia? Further information please.

My only experience with the Baikal doubles have been the 9.3x74R, 30/06, .308 O/U and the 30/06 sxs. If the 45/70 sxs double does arrive I would be very interested in one. Not looking to push the envelope as the 45/70 in factory ammo guise can do most of what I want it to do anyway.

I also agree that the sxs doubles are more desireable, but after seeing .450's O/U 9.3x74R in action it is starting to grow on me as well. The Fabarm package is definately appealing to the eye and adjustable as well.

Good luck!


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watto
.275 member


Reged: 10/06/07
Posts: 90
Loc: Victoria,Australia
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: 450]
      #80528 - 13/06/07 07:00 PM

G'day again Wayne and thanks for your kind offer, which if I can organise it I would love to accept.
I will send you a note when I know when I can get down.

Michael, I am told the first couple of 45/70's will arrive next month. Having said that I have been trying to get one for 2 years, so I will really believe it when I see it. If I decide to go for the 9.3 I will let you know about the 45/70.

All the best, Ian.


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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States
Re: Spartan s/s [Re: watto]
      #80541 - 13/06/07 11:01 PM

Gents, I am interested in why you are leaning toward .45-70 over the 9.3x74R. Just curious. I am a fan of the .45-70, have used it on whitetail deer, black bear and range cattle and have no gripes and as for the x74R, I have no experience with it but I very much like the 9.3 barrel hole in the x57 and in x74R configuration imagine it would be just that much more fun.

So curiousity prompts me to wonder. Why .45-70?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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