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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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Kalunga
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Reged: 16/06/06
Posts: 328
Loc: Germany
Heym 88B Safari in .470 or .500 N.E. ?
      #79768 - 02/06/07 08:18 AM

To all N.E. members that have experience with shooting a Heym 88B Safari: I am considering to buy one but am not sure about the caliber. It`s basically a question of ammo availability against recoil. But since my favourite quarry is buffalo ( at close range ) I would prefer the .500 3". I would like to know if there is a big difference in recoil with that double.
Thanks alot for any advice.

Kalunga

If You are going to make a hole in an animal, it`s got to be a hole to remember !


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zimhunter
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Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Heym 88B Safari in .470 or .500 N.E. ? [Re: Kalunga]
      #79770 - 02/06/07 08:49 AM

Can't really help as my 88B was a 375H&H. I really couldn't tell much difference between it and my Merkel 470NE. The Heym was much lighter. Only 500 I've fired was a 500 Jeffery bolt gun and I definitely did NOT like it. Hope that helps some.Given all things equal the 500 is probably lighter than the 470 in the same gun just due to bore size.

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Grizzly
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Reged: 05/12/05
Posts: 359
Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
Re: Heym 88B Safari in .470 or .500 N.E. ? [Re: zimhunter]
      #79773 - 02/06/07 12:04 PM

I have a Safari in 470. It is on the light side - 9.5 pounds. For me, it is a joy to shoot. Great weight for lugging in the bush. And in a hunting situation, never noticed the recoil.

I have not shot one in 500, but if it is around the same weight I would seriously consider sticking with a 470. Better ammo and component availability, higher resale, etc.

I have shot a Merkel in a 500, and it was a definite step up in recoil. I thought the 500 was harsher than the 13.5 pound 577 I shot.

--------------------
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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Heym 88B Safari in .470 or .500 N.E. ? [Re: Grizzly]
      #79774 - 02/06/07 12:54 PM

I agree with Grizzly.

I have shot his 470 Heym and a couple of different 500 Nitro Merkels, Searcy a Hambrush and a 500 Jeffery Bolt and a 505 Gibbs Bolt.

The 500's are a step up in recoil. I too prefer to shoot a Searcy 577 vs one of the 500's.

The 500's do not hurt, but the recovery time is longer.

The 470 is plenty powerful enough.

I have shot buff with a 450 No2, 450/400 3 1/4" and 9,3x74R.

They all worked plenty good.

Everything considered the 470 is hard to beat.


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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Heym 88B Safari in .470 or .500 N.E. ? [Re: Grizzly]
      #79777 - 02/06/07 01:26 PM

Quote:

I have shot a Merkel in a 500, and it was a definite step up in recoil. I thought the 500 was harsher than the 13.5 pound 577 I shot.




Given the weight of the .500s in the newer rifles (Heym, Merkel, etc.), I don't disagree with that. They thwack you pretty hard. The .470 is definitely more shootable in those rifles. Even in .470, look at how many of these 10 to 10.5 wonders end up with recoil reducers in them - they're just more than most can handle. If you're set on the .500, don't do it unless you can shoot one of the make of choice before you bite.

Personally, availability of factory ammo is no consideration at all to me when I'm shopping for a double rifle. Most of us DR shooters never shoot factory ammo anyway. If you want the most out of your rifle, you'll be shooting handloads.

Either way, the Heym is a fine choice.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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Kalunga
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Reged: 16/06/06
Posts: 328
Loc: Germany
Re: Heym 88B Safari in .470 or .500 N.E. ? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #79781 - 02/06/07 04:11 PM

I agree that ammo availability is not an important factor since I reload for all my guns, but the .470 has this advantage on her side, to be fair.
And I am sure the .500 has considerably more stopping power but on the other side the difference can`t be huge, and shot placement is what counts anyway.
After reading Your comments it looks like the .470 is the better choice.
Thank You Gentlemen

Kalunga

Wicked good hunting !!!


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Kalunga
.333 member


Reged: 16/06/06
Posts: 328
Loc: Germany
Re: Heym 88B Safari in .470 or .500 N.E. ? [Re: Kalunga]
      #79783 - 02/06/07 05:00 PM

Sorry I forgot to ask if there is a difference between the .470 and the .500 3" concerning reloading. I never used filler for my catridges and would like to get around that risk.
Any advice on this aspect ?

Kalunga


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3475
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Heym 88B Safari in .470 or .500 N.E. ? [Re: Kalunga]
      #79790 - 02/06/07 08:57 PM

Kalunga:
If you use reasonably bulky slow-burning powders, a filler is not needed for either cartridge.

The .470 uses 103gr to 105gr H4831 to match factory ballistics, and the .500 3-inch uses 106gr H4350. There will be a small amount of air-space in the case, but it does not cause problems. These are the recommended factory-load equivalents in Graeme Wright's book, and are in common use in Australia on a daily basis with those exact loads using the original ADI-branded powders and no filler.

If you prefer to use 'Reloader' powders, you will need fillers for sure.

Sorry I cannot advise on Norma, Vitavourhi, Vectan, etc, but you get the idea. Hopefully someone else has experience with European powders, especially the bulky slow-burners.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Heym 88B Safari in .470 or .500 N.E. ? [Re: Kalunga]
      #79973 - 05/06/07 01:46 PM

Quote:

I agree that ammo availability is not an important factor since I reload for all my guns, but the .470 has this advantage on her side, to be fair.
And I am sure the .500 has considerably more stopping power but on the other side the difference can`t be huge, and shot placement is what counts anyway.
After reading Your comments it looks like the .470 is the better choice.
Thank You Gentlemen

Kalunga

Wicked good hunting !!!




Just to be different, I would choose the 500. The reason I say this is I have shot several 470's and 500 nitro's--with the exception of the Merkels, I really didn't think there was that much difference. Not sure if the Merkel didn't fit me well or what, but they are some of the hardest kicking doubles I have ever shot.

As to ammo availability, I totally agree with others in that I would not base my decision on that --the .470 is just a 500 necked down so the brass for the 500 should be around as long as the 470 is.

As to stopping power, the 500 has around a 14% to 15% increase in knock down power (muzzle energy)--while I have not yet had the opportunity to hunt with a .500--everyone who has, all the way back to J.A Hunter, all agree the .500 Nitro has a decided advantage over the .470. These as include Taylor, Boddington and Weiland. As they have shot more game than probably the rest of us put together, IMHO, I respect their stand on the matter.

No matter what you choose, I am sure it will be of great joy to you.
Thank you and good luck.
Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Heym 88B Safari in .470 or .500 N.E. ? [Re: Ripp]
      #80051 - 07/06/07 01:24 AM

My opinion is that there is a greater difference in felt recoil depending on whether the comb and cast of the stock fit you than on the difference between 500 NE and 470 NE. To put it another way, I have shot 470 NE doubles with WAY more felt recoil than some other doubles I shot in .500 NE, based on stock fit.

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Kalunga
.333 member


Reged: 16/06/06
Posts: 328
Loc: Germany
Re: Heym 88B Safari in .470 or .500 N.E. ? [Re: 500grains]
      #80071 - 07/06/07 04:44 AM

I talked to a gunsmith that obviously knows a lot about doubles and he said the same. So I think I will choose the .500 N.E. 3" , and hopefully whack an old buffalo with it !

Kalunga


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Heym 88B Safari in .470 or .500 N.E. ? [Re: Kalunga]
      #80151 - 08/06/07 12:04 PM

When you do send some photos--would love to see them.
Ripp


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Kalunga
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Reged: 16/06/06
Posts: 328
Loc: Germany
Re: Heym 88B Safari in .470 or .500 N.E. ? [Re: Ripp]
      #80158 - 08/06/07 02:55 PM

As soon as I get my double, but that can take some time.....

Kalunga


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dnovo
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Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Re: Heym 88B Safari in .470 or .500 N.E. ? [Re: Kalunga]
      #80185 - 08/06/07 10:05 PM

The comments about fit and stock dimensions and shape impacting on recoil are quite apt. I turned down purchase of a Ferlib-built and otherwise very nice round action DR in a 375 Flanged at an attractive price after trying it out. The stock had been altered to a shorter dimension but using the original stock to fit a much smaller shooter. I have a Ferlib DR hammer gun in 9.3X74R which was, except for the external hammers and the engraving, a near brother of the 375 Flanged and a cartridge which is ballistically very much like the 375 Flanged. The difference was startling. The 375 Flanged was unpleasant and wanted to leap upwards with every pull of the trigger. The 9.3X74R, stocked as I had requested to fit me, performed as before, a perfect gentleman to shot.


So, don't shop for caliber, shop for the rifle that fits. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels


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