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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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AzGuy
.333 member


Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 388
Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA
9.3x74 + $5K = 375
      #78690 - 15/05/07 12:30 PM

I'm in the market for a "medium DR"......just started paying attention to prices. Most 9.3 fans say "it is in the same class as the 375"...? Ballistically it is 10-15% LESS than the 375 Flanged and 20-25% LESS than the 375 belted. It is still a very potent round, but lets be honest and say that it comes in 3rd when compared to the other two.

In terms of "new DR's", when you look at rifles; their cost, weight, and availability.... then it comes in first!!
It seems the Chapius in 9.3 (under 8 lbs) is available for about $5K but try to find a 375 belted or flanged and you are in the 10+ lbs and $9-10K area. The only 375 flanged that I could find on the same small 9.3 frame is the Heym 80-B ($10K)... Any others?

With it's modest but proven ballistics, lesser recoil, lighter rifles, readily available ammo (375 belted = availability but 375 flanged = No Way)maybe the 9.3 is THE modern medium. So I long for a 375 but think the 9.3 is not a bad second choice.

Your thoughts, comments?

Thanks, Jeff

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39245
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 9.3x74 + $5K = 375 [Re: AzGuy]
      #78693 - 15/05/07 03:12 PM

I think the 9.3x74R in a double rifle is a true 'bargain' for the price compared to the larger bore rifles. Often in lighter more handy DRs as well.

I don't agree it is .375 H&H class but pretty close.

The Europeans really like it for driven game and boar hunting for good reason.

So far a mostly "undiscovered" gem in the English speaking world.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: 9.3x74 + $5K = 375 [Re: NitroX]
      #78695 - 15/05/07 03:26 PM

Jeff
Do a search here and on Accuratereloading.com regarding my previous posts about my 9,3x74R Chapuis double rifle.

I have taken quite a bit of game with it. It has been on 3 Safaris to Zimbabwe, totalling @ 86 hunting days.
I have taken giraffe cape buff and elephant with it.

I do not think any animal could tell the difference between the 375 H&H and the 9,3x74R.

I have been perfectly happy with mine.

It weighs 7 1/4lbs with out the scope and is a joy to carry.

I have taken a coyote at 271 yards and a kudu at a little over 300 yards [both with scope].

The elephant was taken at 5 yards[iron sights of course].

The fact that a 9,3 double can be had for 5K less than a 375 is just icing on the cake.

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dnovo
.333 member


Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Re: 9.3x74 + $5K = 375 [Re: NE450No2]
      #78709 - 15/05/07 10:42 PM

I am perfectly content with my DRs in 9.3X74R, and my wife's DR in 375 H&H shoots quite well as well. However, if you want a less expensive DR in a 375H&H rather than a 9.3X74R there is a solution.

I acquired a nice Renato Gamba O/U in 375H&H in NIB condition, with scope mounts, ring and case, for $4995. There are several other O/Us in this chambering from Browing, Beretta, etc all well under $10,000. A well built O/U is a fine choice, and will normally provide less spread than a SXS, with the lower barrel, if set up to fire first, dead on and the upper just a hair off in the vertical plane.

O/Us just 'get no respect' and that is unfortunate. But if you want an alternative DR in a 375H&H, give an O/U some thought. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: 9.3x74 + $5K = 375 [Re: dnovo]
      #78720 - 16/05/07 03:46 AM

George Caswell of champlins has a .375 Merkel for $9k and I'm sure he will knock it down more to get rid of it.

I can tell what you really really want is a .375 flanged, me too!

Remember, a .375 can always be down loaded to 9.3 or 'flanged levels but still retain WOT when you need it.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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AzGuy
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Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 388
Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Re: 9.3x74 + $5K = 375 [Re: bonanza]
      #78725 - 16/05/07 05:13 AM

bonanza,

You are right..... what I really want is a 375 Flanged, with claw mounts, and about 9 lbs without scope!! Gotta be one out there somewhere.

I've look at the Merkel 375 @ Champlins, it goes 10 lbs 5 oz. That is one ounce more than my 470.
What does your Merkel in 375 belted weigh?

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dnovo
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Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Re: 9.3x74 + $5K = 375 [Re: AzGuy]
      #78731 - 16/05/07 08:14 AM

The weight issues with Merkel 375s arises from the fact that they use the same barrel set as the 470 and 500NE. Bigger bores, less steel up front and less weight up there. I posted in another thread that I found the Merkel 140s in 375 to be overbuilt and nose heavy, while the balance on the 470s and 500 was just right for my taste. That is why you have to try before you buy, or make sure you are dealing with someone who will let you get it, heft it and swing it, and then return if not to your liking. George understands that. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: 9.3x74 + $5K = 375 [Re: AzGuy]
      #78734 - 16/05/07 11:10 AM

Ok, I understand where you are comming from.

I don't know what kind of 470 you have: modern or vintage, British or Continental. But that 470 can be made to shoot heat-treated cast bullets in the 370gr range quite nicely. That makes the ole 470 very fun to shoot.

If it is modern then I suggest you get a pre-war british rifle. In the sub $10k range is 450 and 500 BPEs. They are in a class among themselves.

If you want a modern rifle and I were you I'd get a 30-06 or something similar. I think this is the only way to get the weight down.

Champlins had a 450 BPE and a scoped 30-06.

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: 9.3x74 + $5K = 375 [Re: bonanza]
      #78742 - 16/05/07 02:25 PM

Arizona
Trust me on this. Anything that can be done with a 375 Flanged or a 375 H&H double can be done with a 9,3x74R double.
With a lot less muss and fuss, and weight as well.

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: 9.3x74 + $5K = 375 [Re: AzGuy]
      #78840 - 18/05/07 07:38 AM

Quote:

I'm in the market for a "medium DR"......just started paying attention to prices. Most 9.3 fans say "it is in the same class as the 375"...? Ballistically it is 10-15% LESS than the 375 Flanged and 20-25% LESS than the 375 belted. It is still a very potent round, but lets be honest and say that it comes in 3rd when compared to the other two.



Not true. Standard ballistics for the .375 Flanged Magnum are a 300 grain bullet at 2,425 fps from 28" barrels, not 24". Factory Norma 286 grain (same SD as 300 grain .375) 9.3X74R chronographs 2,350 fps from 23.6" barrels, roughly the same or maybe a touch faster than 300 grain .375 Flanged Magnum from barrels of the same length. There is no difference. The 9.3 is just loaded to somewhat higher pressure.

The down side to the .375 is the larger base diameter, which results in a larger action and a heavier rifle. The brass has been virtually impossible at times in the past, and probably will be again in the future. Brass for the 9.3X74R will be available as long as double rifles continue to be made.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: 9.3x74 + $5K = 375 [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #78841 - 18/05/07 07:51 AM



"Standard ballistics for the .375 Flanged Magnum are a 300 grain bullet at 2,425 fps from 28" barrels, not 24"."


You don't get 2425 fps from most of them.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39245
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 9.3x74 + $5K = 375 [Re: 500Nitro]
      #78853 - 18/05/07 02:06 PM

What speeds are actual users getting from their 9.3x74Rs? Actual chronographed loads?

I only get about 2150 fps with a 286 gr load from my Valmet/Tikka. I admit I have only tried two types of propellant through it.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (18/05/07 02:57 PM)

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: 9.3x74 + $5K = 375 [Re: NitroX]
      #78858 - 18/05/07 02:54 PM

John:

Rusty and I got 2350 from factory 9.3 Norma 286 grain Oryx in his Chapuis with 23.6" barrels.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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dnovo
.333 member


Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Re: 9.3x74 + $5K = 375 [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #78879 - 18/05/07 10:41 PM

Are simply arguing about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin, and deciding that one extra makes all the difference?

Okay, the 375 Flanged is slightly superior in specs to a 9.3X74R. Is there a 'real world' performance difference between the two? This thread and others suggests not. If one really wants to move 'up' in the 366 to 375 range of cartridges to something considered more effective on larger or dangerous game in a DR, then its to a 375 H&H, which usually means a slightly larger and more expensive rifle. (And from what I have read, a 375 H&H is considered about the minimum for buff or other large and unfriendly critters in most areas, including Alaska for the top of that State's food chain.)

Also, if one doesn't handload, or wants a rifle where 'off the shelf' ammo is available in a pinch, the 9.3X74R is fairly common and far less expensive than 375 Flanged (and Hornady is about to bring out a loading that will be even less expensive than current selections in the 9.3)

Theory is wonderful, but let's not get hung up on numbers and forget reality. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39245
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 9.3x74 + $5K = 375 [Re: dnovo]
      #78881 - 18/05/07 10:58 PM

Quote:

Is there a 'real world' performance difference between the two?



There may well be a legal difference between the two.

If the legal minimum is .375" there is a difference.

If the energy levels are the minimum eg in Zimbabwe and reportedly hotly loaded 9.3x62's may just exceed the minimum, again the legal minimum may not have been achieved with a 74mmR.

Whether or not, the legal minimum standards will be applied is another thing.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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