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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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dnovo
.333 member


Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Strength of 98 Actions
      #78654 - 14/05/07 10:46 PM

I have read quite a bit about the inherent strength and safety of a 98 action but had no first hand experience, until yesterday.

I acquired in a Estate sale a group of pre-WWII Oberndorf commercial rifles in a variety of chamberings. I had head space gauges for some (8X57, 7X57, etc) and all but one checked out fine. One was a bit marginal, and that went off to an expert to 'tuck it up' a bit.

One rifle was a nicely engraved, spoon bolt in 9.3X57 with rifling that looked very, very good. The rifle was inexpensive in the sale and while some of the bluing was a bit worn, the engraving was still sharp and it was 'cheap' enough to take a flier on.

Picked up a box of Norma loads and took it to the range yesterday with a few DRs I was fiddling with. The first round seated easily. Pulled the set trigger back and touched off the round -- and smoke out of the gas ports and everywhere else!

The bolt was somewhat sticky opening but it came open without having to resort to the Russian Adjustable Wrench method my son has to use on his Mosins to open them from time to time (i.e. rubber mallet) and extracted the case. Primer had blown completely out of the pocket and that turned up laying on the top of the mag follower.

Damage to the extractor? Zip. Damage to anything? Zip.

So, other than having to send this rifle off to see if a pro can deal with the headspace issue what did I learn from this incident? A. When in doubt, don't shot it. B. Is the 98 as safe and strong as it is said to be? You bet your butt.

"Ve built dem gut in der Vaterland, eh Heine?" (Curt Jurgens, THE ENEMY BELOW, 1955.)

Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

Edited by dnovo (14/05/07 10:48 PM)

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Strength of 98 Actions [Re: dnovo]
      #78773 - 17/05/07 06:35 AM

That doesn't sound like a headspace problem. I wonder if (1) the chamber might have been opened up to say 9.3X62 or if (2) the caliber might actually be 9X57.

If the former, the firing pin blow would have pushed the cartridge far enough forward in the chamber to allow the primer to blow out when the case obturated and clung to the chamber walls. If the latter, the combination of an oversize bullet and insufficient neck clearance would have increased pressure to the point that the primer pocket would have expanded and released the primer.

What did the fired case look like? Did you measure the base of the case and compare it with the diameter of an unfired round? Would the primer just drop back into the primer pocket, or was the primer pocket still at its original diameter?

I hope you were wearing shooting glasses.

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States
Re: Strength of 98 Actions [Re: xausa]
      #80015 - 06/06/07 11:57 AM

xausa may be spot on.

From some reports on another forum the rechambering of 9,3x57 rifles to x62 was common. My x57 rifles are marked "9,3mm" only. But they are x57. Yours might indeed be x62. A chamber cast may be in order here.

Having said that, I do believe xausa may also be correct in his other guess: a 9x57 chambering. Hard to see how you could have chambered a 9,3x57 round, but if perchance you did the result might be as described.

I've never seen a spoon bolt on a 9,3x57. Such an appendage is not common on such rifles. Could easily be that the rifle had one, or I wonder if the bolt was a replacement without regard to headspace.

Lots of guesses but no real answers I am afraid to say. Maybe give the chamber cast a whirl and see what it turns up.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Strength of 98 Actions [Re: 9.3x57]
      #80020 - 06/06/07 02:14 PM

"Norma loads"

How old is this Norma ammo? Not some of the old relaodable Norma amo is it?

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States
Re: Strength of 98 Actions [Re: DoubleD]
      #80047 - 07/06/07 12:33 AM

I'm going to toss another possibility out and beg for a chamber cast!

I wonder if this rifle is a 9.5x57, not 9.3. Spoon bolt handle and engraving just has me curious and leaning toward the 9.5x57 {or 9.3x62}. Such niceties are very rare on Swede 9.3x57's.

Granted, the larger bullet diameter {9.5/.375 vs 9.3/.366} would indicate lower pressures but maybe pressures themselves were not the problem. Easy seating would seem to rule out a 9x57, and 9.3x62 seems possible, but a loose-chambered 9.5x57 might have set up a similar condition of excessive headspace.

Does a 9.3 bullet fit in the muzzle or slide right in to the case neck?

Also, I forgot to add above, if the rifle is 9.3x57, you can use that 8x57 headspace gauge to good effect. You should get binding when you attempt to close the bolt on it. Remember to remove the cocking piece and extractor for best feel when using the gauge.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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