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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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NitroXAdministrator
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Is there any need for the .243 or .25?
      #7819 - 30/01/04 01:31 PM

I have used a 6mm or .243 and the .25 calibre is very similar.

They are used for small game and medim game.

But a .22/250 or .222 does far better than a .243 anyday for the small stuff.

If you look at a 6.5mm with the greater range of bullet weights from 85 grs to 160 grs it also is a far better killer of game than any .243 or .25.

Are the calibres and cartridges in the .243 and .25s completely redundant, obsolete and a waste of time?


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Crazyquik
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: NitroX]
      #7821 - 30/01/04 01:57 PM

Definently not!!

My grandfather gave me my first centerfire rifle. It was (is) a .243

This is a rifle that can be used for varmits (groundhogs and coyotes) or for our smallish eastern Whitetail deer. The recoil is virtually a non-issue, which is good for recoil sensitive shooters.

I have heard of some hard core prarie dog shooters out west that prefer the 6mm guns for windy conditions over the .20 and .22 calibers.

To me, the .243 is a great jack of many trades, master of none. It works fine for deer, although you must be pickier with your shot selection than with a 7mm-08. You can also buy off the shelf varmit ammo, which is harder to find for anything bigger.

You can push over 3900 fps with a 55 grain bullet with handloads. Or you can shoot 90 grain Nosler Partitions or 110 grain something or others. Its also frequently used out West on the pronghorn antelope, as it shoots decently flat in the open country and gives more punch than the .22s

With all that said, if I could only have one rifle I'd rather have a .308 than a .243, but if I shot more varmints than deer, or if I was concerned about recoil, the .243 would get a serious look.

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Crazyquik
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: Crazyquik]
      #7824 - 30/01/04 02:09 PM

Not to ramble but, it's nearly a perfect caliber for someone who wants one varmit/predator gun, which they can also hunt deer and/or pronghorns with.

Also, a friend of mine shot the barrel out of his Winchester Model 70 and had it rebarreled and reamed to .22-243 and made a dandy varmit rifle from it. Ballistically it exceeds the .220 Swift and .22-250, although it really pulls away only in longer barrels.

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luv2safari
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: NitroX]
      #7847 - 30/01/04 05:02 PM

I started my son out with a 257 Roberts. When he got a bit bigger, we chambered it to 257 Ackley. He has made clean kills on several pronghorn, deer, and an elk with no problems.

He is loading 120 gr Nosler Partitions at 2900 fps, and they slam in there real well with excellent penetration.

I might try it on small and medium plains game this year.
It is nice and light, and a pussycat to shoot.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: luv2safari]
      #7859 - 31/01/04 12:52 AM

Fellows

Thanks for the replies.

But what can a .243 or a .25 do that a 6.5 can't do with a 85 to 100 gr bullet?

Also the 6.5mm with a 140 to 160 gr bullet will outshoot any of them by a huge margin and preform better than a .270 and even a 7mm for that matter. Don't you agree?



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...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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luv2safari
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: NitroX]
      #7879 - 31/01/04 04:16 AM

The 6.5x55 is a great round. What it can't do is show up on the shelf of "Clyde's Gas & Go" in backwater towns here in the US. That's the only problem with the 6.5...

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Dark_Helmet
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: luv2safari]
      #7880 - 31/01/04 05:01 AM

257wby.


'nuff said!

remember that here in the states we have a VERY different cartridge history.

we've got 224, 243, 257, 264, 277, 284, 308, 323, 338, 358, 366, 375, 416, 423, 458,....

the metrics have 5.56, 6, 6.5, 7, 8, 9.3, and 10.75, and I think I've seen 10-even.

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_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #7991 - 01/02/04 10:19 AM

Of course there is a need for the .243 and .25/06, but not for me. Well at the moment though. A really light 6mm would be quite nice.

The 6.5mm is popular in Europe and virtually unknown here too until the cheap accurate Mauser 96 Swedish mil rifles arrived. I do think it is an ideal 'Australian' calibre for pigs, goats and many types of deer. Light recoiling, very good penetration and adequate calibre size.

The .243's were popular here and saw lots of use on pigs, goats and roos. In fact other than a .22/250 a .243 with a fragile 75 gr HP is probably ideal for roos for lack of skin damage.

Just interested in hearing what people had to say on the 6mm's and .25s.

PS I still think a 6.5 will outshoot a .25 anyday




--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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luv2safari
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: NitroX]
      #8012 - 01/02/04 04:10 PM

Not when its in a 264 Win Mag!...not for long, anyway! I do think that a 6.5 based on an '06 case would walk all over a 270 or 25-06.

There just seems to be something just right about the 6.5...from a 257 lover...!

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iqbal
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: Crazyquik]
      #8027 - 02/02/04 02:26 AM

Crazyquik,you mentioned you would rather have a 308.I am thinking of buying a 308 i.e. the Weatherby light weight with a synthetic stock for hunting in the mountains.Presently i'm using a 7mm.mag.but around here the ammo for this caliber is difficult to obtain and quite expensive while ammo for the 308 is easily available.You see, the army here uses the the G-3 in 308 and the ammo. is manufactured localy thus it is quite cheap and always available.Do you think its a good choice for hunting game like mountain sheep and ibex at 300 plus yards?

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luv2safari
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: iqbal]
      #8030 - 02/02/04 04:14 AM

iqbal,

Not to jump into your question, but I have hunted N. America sheep with a 30-06 and 165 gr boat tail bullets. It works quite well out to 300 yards. I have also used the 308 a bit in a Valmet 12/308 combo gun I once had.

With handloads I could almost duplicate 30-06 ballistics, but not quite. Even with factory loadings, the 308 performed well to 300 yards. I don't know how your 308 ammo will be loaded, but think it a decent sheep caliber.

I know two avid N. American sheep hunters who use the 308 exclusively in ultra light rifles. These guys live for sheep hunting! Both load 165 gr flat base bullets. Bigger bullets and boat tails tend to seat too deep in the case with that 308's short neck.

I hope this is some value to you, my friend.

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Dark_Helmet
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: luv2safari]
      #8078 - 03/02/04 05:22 AM

the 308 is a perfectly good sheep rifle for a few reasons...

1) it works better with lighter bullets as relative to the 30-06 (which does better with the big-boys).
2) sheep aren't that big
3) short actions are lighter... and going after sheep is a bit of an adventure to say the least
4) easy to get ammo.

now, I wouldn't go out an buy a 308 JUST FOR SHEEP... but if you've got one, use it!

to me, a sheep gun would be 270WCF, 270 WSM(blah), 257wby, or 7mm-08.

270 for its ballistics and reasonable recoil
270WSM, ballistics AND lighter rifle... but crappy ammo availability and $$$$
257wby just to reach out and touch someone at 500 yards!
7mm-08, light rifle, light recoil, 7mm ballistics.

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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Holmes
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: NitroX]
      #8122 - 03/02/04 05:05 PM

In reply to:

But a .22/250 or .222 does far better than a .243 anyday for the small stuff.




True, as long as wind is not a factor. This is where the 6mm/257 camp really blows the 22 cals away.

Of course, the 6.5mm pills perform even better under such conditions.

Fortunately, logical or technical justification does not a cartridge make! The quarterbores and the 6s still sell very well and take game every year reliably. I use both for varmints and antelope. In fact, just now waiting on a #1 in 6mm.

Somebody told me I couldn't make a good long range antelope rifle out of a Ruger #1....

I love a challenge!

Later.

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iqbal
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #8126 - 04/02/04 02:54 AM

dasMafia,actually i'm going for the 308 just because of the ammo factor as mentioned in my post.I will be replacing the 7mm.mag. with it.You think its a good choice for sheep hunting at 300 plus yards?
Alternatively which caliber would you recommend?

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mickey
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: iqbal]
      #8144 - 04/02/04 02:10 PM

I don't see any differance between the 270 and the 243. I do however see a huge differance between the 404 and the 416 Rem. and the 450 3 1/4 and a 470.

--------------------
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Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Bakes
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: mickey]
      #8147 - 04/02/04 03:32 PM

In reply to:

What it can't do is show up on the shelf of "Clyde's Gas & Go" in backwater towns here in the US. That's the only problem with the 6.5...




Not in Australia, the 6.5x55 would be more common than the 25-06 in most small towns.
I don't concider the .243 as being suitable on big boars up my way. The 25's shooting 120gr pill would be a minium. The 6.5's shooting 120-140gr pills is just about ideal, with the 140gr's better for the likes of donkeys.

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luv2safari
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: Bakes]
      #8161 - 04/02/04 06:06 PM

The 6.5 is starting to catch on a bit here. I wish it would even more; its a great little caliber. With a fast twist it can sail those 140's and 160's way down range, right on top of each other.

I know of a guy who does all his sheep hunting over here with a 6.5x55. Federal is loading it, and S&B is importing it here. That should tell us something.

I bought a Swedish Mauser about 6-7 years ago for a song...and I can't sing for sh.t! It just might become my light sporter... It is so straight, that I hesitate to have it customized. Help...I need a nudge...

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Holmes
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: luv2safari]
      #8173 - 05/02/04 02:27 AM

In reply to:

Help...I need a nudge...



You can make it better... nudge... you can make it prettier... nudge... you can make it unique... nudge...

The canvas is before you - paint, my man, paint!

Subsequent pics are, of course, required

Regards.

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Dark_Helmet
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: iqbal]
      #8191 - 05/02/04 08:12 AM

In reply to:

dasMafia,actually i'm going for the 308 just because of the ammo factor as mentioned in my post.I will be replacing the 7mm.mag. with it.You think its a good choice for sheep hunting at 300 plus yards?
Alternatively which caliber would you recommend?



I would absolutle not get the 308, sheep is too far to the extreme of its usefullness, and in order to shoot the light & fast rounds needed for sheep, you would have a barrel twist rate that would make anything heavier than 165s completely impossible, so its just not right... calibers I WOULD look at are:

7mm-08, 25-06 (lose the short-action though), 7x57, 280 Rem (again, lose the SA).

for a long-action: Weatherby Vanguard Stainless 257wby, short action: Tikka or Rem 7mm-08.

use 115s or 120s in the wby, and 140s in the 7mm.

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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Dark_Helmet
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #8192 - 05/02/04 08:16 AM

should add... 6.5x55 would be great in a light-weight all-weather rifle.

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: mickey]
      #8199 - 05/02/04 11:21 AM

In reply to:

I don't see any differance between the 270 and the 243. I do however see a huge differance between the 404 and the 416 Rem. and the 450 3 1/4 and a 470.



I read this and thought "What the .....?"

Then I realised.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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luv2safari
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: Holmes]
      #8209 - 05/02/04 12:27 PM

Holmes,

Thanks! I've always been right on the edge...just needed the push.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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mickey
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: NitroX]
      #8224 - 05/02/04 03:31 PM


In reply to:



In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't see any differance between the 270 and the 243. I do however see a huge differance between the 404 and the 416 Rem. and the 450 3 1/4 and a 470.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I read this and thought "What the .....?"

Then I realised.




Nobody on this thread needs to duck. Things are clearly sailing way over their heads.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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jro45
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: NitroX]
      #11077 - 07/03/04 02:30 AM

I feel there is a need for the 257 Weatherby mag. I just recently got one for deer. This rifle is good out to 300 yds and beyond. It shoots a 100 gr bullet at 3500 fps and the 120 gr, at 3200 fps.

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atkinson6
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Re: Is there any need for the .243 or .25? [Re: jro45]
      #12683 - 28/03/04 02:21 PM

Based on that kind of thinking what can a 6.5 do that a 7x57 can;t do and what can a 7x57 do that a 270 can't do..Keep that up and we will all be shooting the 30-06, which probably ain't such a bad idea at all...

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