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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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homemadeDR
.224 member


Reged: 02/12/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Colorado, USA
rimmed deer cartridge?
      #75818 - 07/04/07 01:06 PM

I am looking for suggestions for a rimmed cartridge with relatively low pressure for a break action project gun. 7-30 Waters seems promising. Others?

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: homemadeDR]
      #75823 - 07/04/07 02:07 PM


7x64R
7x57R
6.5x57R
30 Blaser
30-30 Win

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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homemadeDR
.224 member


Reged: 02/12/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: mickey]
      #75824 - 07/04/07 02:35 PM

thanks for the reply Mickey. I have of course heard of these cartridges but my reloading manuals don't have much information on them. Do you have more information, comparison or preference?

Dan

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: homemadeDR]
      #75829 - 07/04/07 03:09 PM

7x65R 7mmRem mag light

7x57R 7x57 is a tried and true round 100 plus years old and has killed everything on this earth.

6.5x57R 7x57 light

30 Blaser 30-06 in a flanged cartridge

30-30 Win

My pick for Deer would be the 7x57R but if I was going to shoot anything bigger the 7x65R.

What kind of rifle?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2400
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: mickey]
      #75832 - 07/04/07 09:04 PM

.303 British and .375 2 1/2 inch Flanged Nitro Express.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Otto
.300 member


Reged: 15/09/05
Posts: 111
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: DoubleD]
      #75837 - 07/04/07 10:44 PM

Surprized no one has mentioned the 30-40. Lower pressure, and only a bit lower ballistics, than the 303. Loaded with 220gr bullets at 2000+fps, the 30-40 is a capable round for larger game as well. For a project, .30 cal barrels are easier and cheaper to obtain than any of the others mentioned, if that's a criterion.
Otto

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: Otto]
      #75842 - 07/04/07 11:37 PM

303 British,using 215 gn rn Woodleighs.
Brilliant combination.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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Paatti
.333 member


Reged: 18/01/07
Posts: 301
Loc: Finland
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #75844 - 08/04/07 12:31 AM

30-30win is not bad choice. Low working pressure. Relatively flat trajectory when loaded with decent bullets. Cheap brass. You can byu components in any Amercan gun store. Accurate!

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: Paatti]
      #75855 - 08/04/07 02:56 AM

38-55! It's a wonderful shorter ranger cartridge sized for deer. Just keep the shots under 150 yards.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: AkMike]
      #75863 - 08/04/07 03:59 AM

One of the rimmed 8mm rounds would be nice, 8x57R, 8x60R and especially the 8x75R would be the great in a single shot.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Kalunga
.333 member


Reged: 16/06/06
Posts: 328
Loc: Germany
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: NitroX]
      #75868 - 08/04/07 04:22 AM

I agree ! The 7mm rounds are all great, the 7x57 most propably being the best of them all, but 8mm is better IMHO. If the ranges are within 200 meters, the 8x57IRS is hard to beat for use on deer-sized game or black bears. If the ranges are longer than 200 meters, the 8x75RS would be very effective. Its ballistics are superior to the .30 R Blaser, which is ballistically a flanged .300 H&H mag.
Somewhere between is the 8x65RS, also a very interesting flanged cartrige in the 30/06 class. The 8mm cartridges offer all You will ever need, so give it a try !

Kalunga

Wicked good hunting

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luv2safari
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Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: homemadeDR]
      #75881 - 08/04/07 07:30 AM

348 Winchester...I've always thought it would be a great round for a combination gun, also.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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COLDSTEEL
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Reged: 02/10/06
Posts: 20
Loc: Central PA
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: homemadeDR]
      #75939 - 08/04/07 10:42 PM

Homie: Gotta' second the motion on the Krag or the .38-55. Consider no cartridge that is not a centenarian. Also, should you like to go cast, there are volumes on both. Regards.

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: homemadeDR]
      #75953 - 09/04/07 12:51 AM

There are at least two factors which must be determined before deciding on a caliber. One is how large the action is: something which will accomodate a .30-30 size cartridge might not have enough chamber wall thickness to accept anything larger or generating more pressure.

Also, how much will the finished rifle weigh? No need to consider, say, a .30-40 with 220 grain loads, if the rifle is too light to accomodate the recoil. Moreover, a certain amount of weight is needed to stablize a rifle for long range shooting, with, for example a 7X65R, which is a sort of rimmed .280 Remington, or an 8X75R, which is in the .30 Super class.

Give us a bit more information to work with in making a caliber suggestion. The Waters cartridge was designed specifically for actions on the same strength category as the Model 94 Winchester. It makes little sense in a rifle where cartridge case length is not a limiting factor, such as a single shot, assuming that the action is sufficiently strong to accept something more powerful.

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homemadeDR
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Reged: 02/12/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: xausa]
      #75961 - 09/04/07 02:53 AM

No gun yet. There are a couple that I am interested in but if not those then some other. Just thinking ahead and enjoying the virtual conversation.

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hobbyguymaine
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Reged: 03/02/07
Posts: 31
Loc: Maine USA
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: homemadeDR]
      #75965 - 09/04/07 03:37 AM

I assumed that with an online name of: homemadeDR, that the proposed build was a DR - not a singleshot. Remove the need to regulate 2 barrels to a specific load and my comments don't really apply - I have single shots in 25-35, 30-40, 45-70, 45-90, 50-110 (all in strong actions) and can tailor loads from sqibb lead bullet to full-house and adjust sights to match. Add the need to regulate 2 barrels and the wide range of loads disappears, and the "rimmed deer cartridge?" criteria prevails!

Let me add or agree w/some of opinions voiced, 30-40 Krag for a "traditional" rimmed cartridge operating at moderate pressure, 30 cal. barrels and reamers readily available and reasonably priced. If factory ammo is a major concern 30-30 is #1, if a double rifle, regulate for 170gr!

If you want something exotic or just different, nothing against 303 Brit. or any of the 6.5mm, 7mm or 8mm (if you were in Canada or Australia or Europe), and 348 Win or 38-55 both certainly capable - but all these suffer from poorer availability of components, loaded ammo, etc. I just spent a couple months debating the same decisions and finally almost bought a Pedersoli Kodiak in 8x57JRS at auction instead of building my first DR, debated calibers based on ready and common availability of gun-making components and factory ammo and reloading stuff. I would still love a 38-55 or 50-110, but out of practicality am half way into my own 30-40 build w/ 2 new barrels profiled and chambered to 30-40. Perhaps 30-30 chambering might've been a better choice, but I personally like 30-40 and have been loading it for 40 years. I had bought the 2 profiled 30 cal blanks for $70- ea., and fellow forum member and DR builder Judson agreed to ream chambers for me for $150-, so I now have under $300- in my barrels and expect to complete this first double rifle with around a $1,000- investment - if I had to rethink it I might've gone with 30-30 instead, awful lot of deer and black bear and moose even have been killed awfully dead w/30-30 over the past century!

Good Luck with your project, Joe(hobbyguymaine)

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DPhillips
.375 member


Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 819
Loc: Alaska
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: hobbyguymaine]
      #75983 - 09/04/07 06:46 AM

I'm having a 7x75R vom Hofe built on a small Hagn action. It will be later in the year before delivery, so I can't comment on the effectiveness of it yet...

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homemadeDR
.224 member


Reged: 02/12/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: DPhillips]
      #75988 - 09/04/07 07:36 AM

Hobbyguymain, names don't always lie and in fact I am building a DR as well. (470 NE on a Huglu 12GA, nearly complete with regulating). However this particular post is relative to a future project (single shot break action).

Lots of good cartridge suggestions. With a little more information I am sure you can see why my orginal post was relative to a low pressure round. I'm thinking about something smaller than a 30 cal. since I have a 470 ne and a 300 Win.

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hobbyguymaine
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Reged: 03/02/07
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Loc: Maine USA
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: homemadeDR]
      #75999 - 09/04/07 11:37 AM

Ah, 25-35 Win, or the AI version or 25 Krag - thinking about one myself, since I just sold my 22 Hornet Low Wall 1/2 hr ago listed my newly rebored to 25-35 (from NIB 223) Win High Wall on Gunbroker and am suffering from smallbore withdrawl already!

Joe (hobbyguymaine)

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homemadeDR
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Reged: 02/12/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: hobbyguymaine]
      #76081 - 10/04/07 10:45 AM

25-35 win sounds like a pretty good choice.

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DM
.300 member


Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 107
Loc: mid west USA
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: homemadeDR]
      #76087 - 10/04/07 12:12 PM

I've found the 8x57jrs to work much better than i ever expected, i load it with 200NP's and it's put huge amounts of meat in my freezer for me. I've taken everything from big moose on down with it and that load, and it's easily a 300 yard big game cartridge and load.

For moose "on down" my pick is the 8x57jrs as it's worked so well for me. Take out the moose/elk and for a bit less recoil, i "may" change that to 7x65R as i'm very fond of the 7mm bore. I have a DR in that cartridge and it shoots amazingly well!

DM

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Collath_500BPE
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Reged: 30/08/06
Posts: 123
Loc: Europe, Austria
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: homemadeDR]
      #76105 - 10/04/07 07:02 PM

Hello homemadeDR,
since a long time in Europe an excellent rimmed deer cartridge with low pressure is the 9x57R but also for stags,
boars and moose.The standard bullet weight is 247 grains.
If you don`t get original cartridges from Browning, you can use modern cases with boxer primer like 8x57 IRS and bring it to 9,0 mm = .350 inch.
kind regards Johann

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26555
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: Collath_500BPE]
      #76615 - 16/04/07 01:08 AM

Mike's suggestion on the .38/55 is the best one, in my humble opinion. After shooting a .375 Winchester for a while, and taking 2 moose with it's little 220gr. bullets loaded to .38/55 specs, I'd have to agree that it is a superb deer/moose/blackbear round, within it's range limitations. Pressure need not be over 35,000cup, velocities aorund 1,900fps and it'll drop deer, moose and bear as quickly or more quickly than the little ctgs. The 220 gr. Hornady is a wonderful bullet for that velocity range. In a stronger action like a #1, of course, it can be cranked up considerably.
: .356 Winchester is another great round just about duplicating the .358 Winchester from bolt guns. It'll work for deer, bear, moose, elk and big bears as well, depending on the load and bullet weight used.
: Breech pressure is what you make it.
: For a break-open rifle as you stated, HomemadeDR, your original choice of 7x30 Waters would be just fine.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Rich
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Reged: 07/12/06
Posts: 25
Loc: Fayette county Pa.
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: DarylS]
      #77312 - 24/04/07 12:06 PM

A good round would be a 30-40 Ackley imr. I have a 30-30 Ackley double i built about 20 years ago for deer in Pa. I have killed to many to remember with this little gun, 21 in bbls 5.6 lbs. Every one likes to use it, i use Hornady 150 gr at 2475 fps. I build most of my doubles on staight cases or imr. case. It reduces the rearward thrust of the case about 30% in a dry oil free chamber. Rich

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faeroe
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Reged: 06/04/05
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Loc: Minnesota
Re: rimmed deer cartridge? [Re: homemadeDR]
      #77564 - 28/04/07 06:21 AM

I would have to vote against the 25-35 for deer, as much as I love my 1894 saddlr ring carbine. It is underpowered. It will kill - my biggest buck to date fell to the rifle, but I lost a deer that I felt was well hit. It was just a slightly brushy, somewhat angling shot at 35 yards that I directed to the front shoulder. My best guess is that the bullet deflected of the shoulder blade (or deer equivalent) rather than penetrating in to vitals. There just isn't enough oomph for other than simple shots - and no matter how we try, there is always a sub-optimal shot we cannot refuse.

If you want a .25 rimmed that does cut the mustard, how about the 6.5x53R? W.D.M. Bell seemed to think very highly of it.

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