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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

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Doublegun
.224 member

Reged: 12/12/06
Posts: 4

Building a Double Rifle
#77503 - 27/04/07 05:53 AM

Gents,
I am well underway in building a .470 NE on a Beretta 409 action. The mononblock has been completed lacking only the fabrication of an extractor and final contour shaping. I am having a issue with the fabrication of encapsulated strikers. There is less than .325" available from the standing breech face to the (possibly) extensively modified strikers. I simply have not figured out how to do it, yet. On the plus side, Beretta is a typical A&D action with Dogtooth strikers. Beretta has included on the standing breech face a grooved ring that encircles each striker hole. These rings are in diameter well exceeding the .210" diameter of a .470 cartridge primer. These grooves extend perpendicularly from the rings directly to the outer edge of the breech. This is the Beretta's idea of primer gas check and control. Am I worried about nothing? Would the factory groove be sufficient protection? This has been quite an interesting project to date. Thanks for any advise.

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Wayne
.224 member

Reged: 25/04/07
Posts: 15
Loc: Montana

Re: Building a Double Rifle [Re: Doublegun]
#77519 - 27/04/07 11:49 AM

Doublegun:

Has W. Ellis Browns book been reviewed? Theres a good section on performing this surgery.

Wayne

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Doublegun
.224 member

Reged: 12/12/06
Posts: 4

Re: Building a Double Rifle [Re: Wayne]
#77873 - 02/05/07 10:13 PM

Wayne,
Ellis Brown's book was my initial reference. Ellis is basing his design somewhat on the Merkel at 25 degrees off the breech face. This angle would allow enough room to use his design, but I do not believe that it would work with my hammers(strikers).

I am getting mixed opinions from respected people in the field as to whether the bushed strikers are really needed or an option for convenience. No convincing argument either way to date.

Thanks,
Doublegun

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livinus
.224 member

Reged: 12/06/06
Posts: 47
Loc: belgium

Re: Building a Double Rifle [Re: Doublegun]
#77915 - 03/05/07 11:28 AM

Of course there are no reasons not to built a double rifle on a shotgun action but:
A REAL maker takes an action 'off the forge'; leaves the walls and the lumps extra thick; puts in bushed strikers in case of a back-fire; regulates the barrels just so;puts many hours (sometimes hundreds) in making that rifle just right (not counting the many YEARS he spent becoming a master gunmaker; always under the supervision of an elder).
Gunmaking is an art, leave it to the artists.
I love working on guns, but I never go furter than general stockwork...
Greetings,
Livinus

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walksfar
.275 member

Reged: 13/11/05
Posts: 87
Loc: East Texas

Re: Building a Double Rifle [Re: livinus]
#77923 - 03/05/07 03:24 PM

Very true.
However, when there is no teacher, one must learn things by themselves.
Be it, good, bad, or ugly.

--------------------
..Faith in God and the Mauser...

Member-DRSS

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Bramble
.375 member

Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England

Re: Building a Double Rifle [Re: walksfar]
#78000 - 05/05/07 12:31 AM

Livinus

With great respect, that is not necessaraly true.

Some of the new H+H doudles are being built on the same actions as the shotguns.

Not all doubles have bushed strikers.

Bushed strikes date from a period when:

Firing pins were generaly larger diamiter.

Needed replacing more often because of the steel/heat treatment quality.

Primer cups and powder quality was more variable.

One has to ask oneself concerning bushed strikers, when was the last time one had a pierced primer (with standard not hot rodded loads) When did one have a case seperation with decent brass loaded only a few times.

We are talking about DG rifles here and far more people are killed by DG than a rifle lettig go, what the hell, nobody ever said I was going to live forever.

Regards

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livinus
.224 member

Reged: 12/06/06
Posts: 47
Loc: belgium

Re: Building a Double Rifle [Re: Bramble]
#85603 - 14/09/07 09:01 AM

Greetings,
The fact that H&H make double rifles based on shotgun actions (at 'bargain prices' like 50.000$ or more) just prooves it all: why not take it for granted.
Livinus

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: Building a Double Rifle [Re: livinus]
#85756 - 16/09/07 08:54 PM

For those interested, here is a pic of the firing-pin holes in the breech-face of a Greener 'Empire' shotgun, in this case my .577 x 2 3/4 double rifle conversion:

For comparison, here is an early British 12-bore hammer shotgun:

I hope this points out the difference. If using the latter action for a DR conversion (...and I wouldn't!), then bushing the firing pins would be mandatory.

Doublegun:
If the dimensions of the firing pins and their holes in your Beretta 409 are in the same ball-park as the average bolt-action rifle, then I would suggest that bushing them is unnecessary. Bushing is not really done to handle escaped gas (though it does form an effective 'valve'), but rather to support the primer-cup so that it doesn't push the firing-pin back and rupture into the oversize hole.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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