Speedswing
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Reged: 03/01/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Made in USA
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Hello, I am thinking about having a big bore rifle custom built. For dangerous game hunting. I sure have read alot about the Mauser's reputation as a reliable firearm, but what about the Enfield and Remington model 30 action rifles. How do they measure up?
Thanks
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dnovo
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Reged: 21/02/05
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Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
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Buy Terry Wieland's new book, "Dangerous Game Rifles" Well written and I think you will find some well-reasoned answers to your questions there. Or, you can ask our opinions, and get about 3000 of those, mostly contradictory, other than nobody builds on the Remington 30 very much. Dave
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Time Wounds All Heels
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Speedswing
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Reged: 03/01/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Made in USA
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Poster: dnovo
Subject: Re: I need a word from the wise
Buy Terry Wieland's new book, "Dangerous Game Rifles" Well written and I think you will find some well-reasoned answers to your questions there. Or, you can ask our opinions, and get about 3000 of those, mostly contradictory, other than nobody builds on the Remington 30 very much. Dave
dnovo, thanks for the reply. I indeed have Terry Wieland's book.
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allenday
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In the right hands, an Enfield action or a Remington Model 30S action CAN be turned into a piece of refined, functional art that works perfectly and shoots extremely well. But the riflesmiths who can turn out this work (like Tom Burgess) are few and far between, some of them are aging, and the work is very expensive -- if you can get it to the point of completion at all.
Today, I think you're better off ordering a modern custom Mauser 98-pattern action from a reputable manufacturer such as Granite Mountain Arms, then sending it to a skilled high-end custom riflesmith for barreling, a stock, and all the rest of it.
This is the most cost-effective way to go, and will achieve for you best all-around results when all is said and done...........
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WyoJoe
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Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 234
Loc: Cheyenne, WY USA
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Quote:
............How do they measure up?
Outstanding. Stay with one from Remington or Winchester. There has been some problems with the Eddystones. If you get one you might look at Dennis Olson in Plains, MT. He is good and quite knowledgable on the P-17's.
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There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"
Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Speedswing
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Reged: 03/01/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Made in USA
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Thank you for all the replys.
Is it best to hire someone for this kind of work who is a member of the American Custom Gun Makers Guild?
Who would be the "King" of gunsmiths that would have the most experiance in building a 505 gibbs on a Remington model 30S ?
Thanks
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allenday
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As far as I'm concerned, D'Arcy Echols & Co., the David Miller Co., Gene Simillion, Hartmann & Weiss, and John Bolliger's 'Mountain Riflery', plus a few others, make the world's best custom bolt-action hunting rifles -- and NONE of them show at the ACGG. They all display their wares at the SCI convention.
My short list would lead me to call D'Arcy Echols and David Miller first for a complete rifle. The price will be high, but the work will be perfect and complete, plus the rifle will shoot with superb accuracy and feed flawlessly.
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zimhunter
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Loc: Southern Arizona
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Some years back I built a 375H&H on a Remington 30s action that David Miller had modified completely. New drop bottom metal and the workmanship was absolutely outstanding. To the best of my knowledge this was the last action he modified before going exclusively to the Win Mdl 70 actions. I can assure you the work was ABOVE first class.
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allenday
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I talked to D'Arcy Echols about this concept yesterday. He said that he won't do a Model 30S or Enfield action. He'd much rather start out with a Hartmann & Weiss Mauser, or else a Granite Mountain Mauser for a 505 Gibbs.
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Speedswing
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Thanks for the posts everyone.
Allenday
I want to know more about D'Arcy Echols , how would I find out about him?
Also, did he say why a no-go on the remington 30s or enfield?
I understand that the Granite magnum mauser and Hartmann & Weiss Mauser are top notch.
There is a lot of information on them.
The builders that are over seas, like Dumulon and johansan { forgive spelling } Do they make a dependable rifle? I have looked over there websites and they offer complete rifles. How long would it take to get one?
Are all these mausers from differant companys basically the same? Do they use original mauser blueprints?
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WyoJoe
.300 member
Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 234
Loc: Cheyenne, WY USA
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You might also want to look at Nathan Heineke. You can read about him at: http://www.laramieboomerang.com/news/more.asp?StoryID=104267 His web site can be found at http://www.nlheineke.com/about.htm His guns are high dollar but some of the best in quality, he used to build rifles for Griffin & Howe.
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There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"
Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Mike_McGuire
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Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
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speedswing
An aquaintance on mine in America has 4 Echols rilfes and another coming in 416 Rem. From memory he has a 270, 2 X 300 Wby and a 375 Wby and is waiting on a 416 Rem.
We speak a lot on the phone and as far as he is concerned it is all "down hill" from Echols.
I think you will find that with Echols if you started with an Enfield or Granite the final price would be similar. Also, remember that for 505 Gibbs the Granite has the .75" diameter bolt as an option. In fact, I think the final cost would be higher if the Enfield was used.
If you just want to convert an Enfield to 505 so it will go bang etc then Echols is not for you.
Mike
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Speedswing
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Reged: 03/01/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Made in USA
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The rifle that I am interested in, is a rifle that I might have to defend my life with. It Must be reliable. The looks of a rifle are not all that important to me as reliability.
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Mike_McGuire
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Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
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The rifle that I am interested in, is a rifle that I might have to defend my life with. It Must be reliable. The looks of a rifle are not all that important to me as reliability.
The vast majority of rifles that Echols makes have fibreglass stocks.
Again, you start with Echols and work down.
Mike
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Speedswing
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Reged: 03/01/07
Posts: 18
Loc: Made in USA
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How can I contact Echols? How long has he been in buisness? Why is he my best choice?
Thanks
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allenday
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Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
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I have 2 Echols-built custom Model 70s in 300 Win. Mag., 2 in 338 Win. Mag. (1 more in production), 1 in 375 H&H, 1 in 416 Rem. Mag., and 1 in 270 Win.. I've hunted with all of them except for 1 of the 338s and the 270, and I've taken scores and scores of big game animals with these rifles -- everything from Texas whitetails to Cape buffalo.
I've never every owned better hunting rifles than those that D'Arcy has built me, pure and simple, and I've been getting custom rifles built since 1980.
Echols is my age (49) and he went to the Colorado School of Trades right out of high school. After graduation, he apprenticed as a stockmaker under the great Jerry Fisher, then taught stockmaking at Colorado School of Trades after that. In a very real sense, D'Arcy also apprenticed under the legendary Tom Burgess in metalwork, as well as Jasper Rayborn. He's a down-to-earth, intellectual guy who never stops learning, never stops growing, never stops networking with other top riflemakers. He builds rifles around the classic constructs, but he also takes advantage of rifle technology that was born out of benchrest competition.
Echols builds COMPLETE rifles that not only shoot with incredible accuracy, but balance perfectly, and otherwise feed and function perfectly and exhibit the highest level of quality and workmanship. Only the very best components are used, and no stone is left unturned to make every rifle the equivalent of the very best he's ever turned out. No rifle is sent out untested and unproven in terms of reliability and accuracy. He breaks them all in and tests and shoots every single one of them.
He makes his own scopemounts, and his own magazine boxes and followers, bottommetal, etc. The scopemounts are the toughest and best-built of anyone's, and his magazine system feeds so perfectly, so effortlessly, and with such utter reliability that you can't tell if you're feeding cartridges or not, and you can bet your life on the reliability of the feeding system and the entire rifle.
As something of a first for a custom riflemaker of the classic school, D'Arcy hand-built and hand-finished and checkered a stock, then sent it to McMillan to have it made into a synthetic copy. With that, his 'Legend" series of rifles was born, and this has become his most popular rifle by far. All of my Echols rifles wear these proprietory McMillan stocks, and they are not only incredibly rugged, but they are handsome in their own right, point and balance perfectly, and never they change zero. All of them will shoot into 1/2 MOA with premium hunting bullets. I've hunted with them from Alaska to Tanzania.
D'Arcy doesn't offer any sort of accuracy guarantee, but then, he doesn't need to.........
D'Arcy Echols & Company
Millville, Utah, USA
(435) 755-6842
legend@bridgernet.com
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Speedswing
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Loc: Made in USA
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Well I called D'Arcy Echols. I had a nice visit with him. He said he is currently building 2 rifles in 505 Gibbs. The foundation for these rifles is the Hartmann and Weiss action. He has never built a 505 gibbs before these two. He said he has took part in restoring original 505 gibb's rifles.
D'Arcy Echols,said there is a 3 year waiting list..........Wow, he must be damn good.
I know quality usually comes with a price, but waiting 3 years is a long time to wait.
He did suggest Gene Simmillon if I wanted it quicker.
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