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Phil_in_the_UK
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Reged: 30/04/03
Posts: 60
Loc: United Kingdom
Who Has a Searcy Double?
      #7679 - 29/01/04 07:46 AM

Gentlemen, I have been looking for some time now for a good double in 470 NE, nothing so far has been right, and when it has been right has been so ridiculously expensive that it just does not make sense when for the same cost you could hunt a few elephant. I have looked at a few alternatives, Krieghoff is one but I have heard a few negative reports relating to double discharges and safeties. Chapuis is another but I have heard of a few quality problems with loose actions after relatively few shots.

So I am looking further a field and found the Searcy doubles. A reasonable price and the spec appears good. Does anyone have any first hand experience of these rifles, good or bad and has any PH had any experience of these rifles, how do they perform “in the wild”. How do they balance and point, what is the quality like, how robust are they, how reliable?

I would love an English double but the cost is just too high and the choice is not great, it seems there are many more English doubles in Australia and the US than over here.

Many Thanks

Phil

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luv2safari
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Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: Phil_in_the_UK]
      #7681 - 29/01/04 08:07 AM

Check with Ray Atkinson. He has one in 470 and loves it. He is new to the forum, but is old, and mean, and opinionated, and easy to rile, and...a real pussycat when you get to know him.

Ray...I hope you read this... Ray books under Atkinson Hunting Adventures, and has been there...done that.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
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Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: luv2safari]
      #7683 - 29/01/04 08:18 AM

Thanks Luv for the kind words, your opinnion is always appreciated, but you left off pretty!!


I have a new Searcy PH model .470 N.E. and it is much trimmer and slimmer than the earlier guns, points well, is tastefully engraved, fine turkish walnut stock that is properly laid out, and it will touch both shots in one hole at 50 yards every time, whats not to like about this one...

I think they run about $9500, and thats a lot of gun for that kind of money...

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Chasseur
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Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: Phil_in_the_UK]
      #7687 - 29/01/04 08:28 AM

Phil,

I don't have any experience with Sercey, but I own a Chapuis in 9.3x74r. I've never heard of problems with them going off face in 470nitro (wouldn't surprise me with the rimless 375 and 416s though, and that's not Chapuis' fault its just shooting a high pressure cartridge out of a double). Though I think some of their interior finishing inside the action can be rough, mine needed a "cleaning" but other than that I've no complaints. If you are looking to France, the Chapuis in 470 would run you only about $5,000 new, and since you are not French (right?) you can avoid the 33%TVA. For the French guns I would recomend Demas. They make doubles in almost any caliber you ask (can get 500 nitro even!!), and their AZUR model SxS had a better reputation in France than Chapuis. They use three locks, rather than the two that Chapuis uses in their Blitz actions. Price is about the same as Chapuis, maybe a bit less. Just some food for thought.

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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mstarling
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Reged: 07/01/04
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Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: Chasseur]
      #7769 - 30/01/04 02:02 AM

I have one of the older, cobbier, Searcy 470s. Have not shot it a huge amount ... maybe a 100 rounds or so (without checking the logs).

Well built. Accurate. Handles well.

Reports indicate they don't go off face with realistic loads.

The PH looks like it is a little better refined but retains the strength. Pretty piece!

mike

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ThomasEdwards
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Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: Chasseur]
      #7778 - 30/01/04 07:05 AM

...pardon my ignorance, but what does 'off face' mean?...

...tia for the education...

te

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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
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Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #7785 - 30/01/04 08:20 AM

Thomas,

I'm sure more knowledgable guys (Micky, Duggboy etc) will put this better than I can... but in the mean time... Its when the action of a break action gun (double rifle or shotgun) gets "loose" and has play even when closed between the barrels and the action. All doubles will wear, but with "cheaply made" guns, and high pressure rounds (like most of the rimless cartridges: 375 H&H, 416, 460 Wetherby etc) this will happen much, much sooner.

Hope this helps!

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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NONE
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Posts: 110
Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: Phil_in_the_UK]
      #7787 - 30/01/04 08:44 AM

I was very interested in the Searcy in .470NE when looking for my first double as well. I went with the Merkel for the simply fact that though I considered both rifles the waiting list on the Searcy would not fit my time restraints and the Merkel was two weeks out and in my hand.


I do not assume to be a expert on the double rifles and have only played with a Searcy at a convention display but some have said the Searcy will not point or feel as good as some other doubles, this from those who have handled and hunted with many different makes of double. It was, in my searching, the only complaint of the Searcy that was common other then the here or there hear say of one particular rifle did this or that.


If you are looking around for other rifles in the same price range I would consider the merkel as well. I found it to be "in the running" so to speak with the others you listed though my only comments so far would be it shoots well from the bench and off hand, prints well out of both barrels with the factory federal regulated load, loads fast and points well for me with a 3/4" pad and has nice balance. The draw backs being for some no ejectors, The factory front site is easily lost being black on black I had a low light insert installed, The engraving is simply adequate if you wanted a nicely engraved rifle I would say it was sub par.

James F. Nixon III .

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
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Loc: Idaho
Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: Chasseur]
      #7788 - 30/01/04 08:49 AM

Keep in mind that one hot load can take a good double off the face...

I have never seen or heard of a Searcy or Krieghoff that shot off the face...

I known that some Merkels and some Chappius rifles have and I do suspect it is because they chambered some of them in 375 and 416 Rigby, and those guns can go up to 60,000 PSI and no double is designed for that kind of pressure, and they certainly should have known better, so I consider that their fault, and that they should be held accountable for such behavior, and it leaves little faith in their product with me....

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ThomasEdwards
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Reged: 04/01/04
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Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: Chasseur]
      #7789 - 30/01/04 08:52 AM

chasseur,

...more than adequate explanation...

...i guess that would be a primary reason for sticking to low-pressure rimmed cartridges such as the 9.3, 470ne, etc...and i also suppose qualified gunsmiths would be able to remedy off-face problems...

...i wonder whether different lock-up systems (e.g., merkel system, beretta sso system, etc.) would affect the potential for off-face problems down the road...

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510Wells
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Reged: 16/11/03
Posts: 62
Loc: Gold Bar, Wa.
Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: atkinson6]
      #8143 - 04/02/04 02:08 PM

Ray,

I'm pretty sure Butch uses English Walnut in his doubles. At least all the guns and stock blanks I saw while ordering my 500 NE with him at his shop where.

I noticed over on AR a while back you mentioned you'd like to try a 375HH with a short barrel. Well I've got one of those critters. It's a model 70 CRF with a 20'' barrel and cut down stock. It's was a "bear control" gun in Alaska in a previous life. I haven't fired it as yet, still sorting out the scope. Your welcome to take a pop with it if we are ever in the same neighborhood.

Roi


--------------------
The only constant is change.

Member DRSS

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: 510Wells]
      #8146 - 04/02/04 02:19 PM

510Wells

Welcome to NitroeExpress .com I don't recognize the handle fro AR. Is it the same?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Maverick
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Reged: 17/01/04
Posts: 2
Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: Phil_in_the_UK]
      #8148 - 04/02/04 03:35 PM

My first double was a Searcy field grade .470 and it was (and still is) a great gun. Extremely accurate; it has a beefy feel to it, as opposed to the Euro doubles that feel more streamlined to me. I put over 300 rounds through the gun without the slightest problem. I dropped elephant, buffalo, and loads of California wild pigs with the gun (hit one pig running at 172 yards). Not bad for a gun that I paid $7,000 for in 2000. In Africa, I hunted alongside my friend, who carried a $20,000 .470 Francotte. Of course, the Francotte was much prettier, but the Searcy actually shot better (both my friend and I tested both weapons together and we both shot the Searcy more accurately). Incidently, I sold the gun to my PH in Zimbabwe (he'd fallen in love with it) and he used the gun to stop a charging buffalo and a charging cow elephant, all caught on film which is being sold at the hunting conventions. I have nothing but praise for the gun- it is a workhorse, not a showpiece. I miss it. As to comparisons to the Merkel- I can only attest to what I've heard- which is that the Merkel is built on shotgun tubes and is inherently much weaker than the Searcy, which Butch builds himself. Hope this helps.

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luv2safari
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Posts: 1410
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Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? *DELETED* [Re: ThomasEdwards]
      #8150 - 04/02/04 03:50 PM

Post deleted by luv2safari

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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510Wells
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Reged: 16/11/03
Posts: 62
Loc: Gold Bar, Wa.
Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: mickey]
      #8152 - 04/02/04 04:13 PM

Mick,

Yes, it's quite similer. On AR it's 510wells and here it's 520Wells. I've been (mostly) lurking on AR for about a year and just recently figured started doing some posting there.

I've wanted a double for a very LONG time. I fired a H&H 470 Nitro that a High School friends Dad had back in 1958 and have been hooked since then. Now that I'm making decent money I'm buying one ;-) Do I need it, no, do I even have a REAL use for it, well I hope to. But what does any of that have to do with getting it?

Roi

--------------------
The only constant is change.

Member DRSS

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510Wells
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Reged: 16/11/03
Posts: 62
Loc: Gold Bar, Wa.
Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: 510Wells]
      #8153 - 04/02/04 04:19 PM


OOPS, of course 520Wells S/B 510Wells. A typist I'm not.

--------------------
The only constant is change.

Member DRSS

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Holmes
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Reged: 01/12/03
Posts: 159
Loc: Wyoming, USA
Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: 510Wells]
      #8157 - 04/02/04 05:15 PM

In reply to:

But what does any of that have to do with getting it?



And I say, "Amen".

Welcome aboard.

This is a good place.

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Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: Holmes]
      #8170 - 05/02/04 12:57 AM

Maverick,

Not to start a debate, and I will make the disclaimer I've never shot a Merkel rifle, but I've heard that is is the other way 'round: Merkel makes all their guns on rifle actions, so the shotguns are make on rifle actions, not rifles on shotgun actions.

Chasseur

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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zimhunter
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Reged: 05/02/04
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Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: Phil_in_the_UK]
      #8174 - 05/02/04 02:33 AM

It amazes me that Merkels are getting such bad reviews. They seem to be the most cost effective 470 out there. If Rigby uses their actions as the basis for their boxlock double it would seem they have some merit. They have double under lugs of large size and a greener crossbolt with reinforcement. Mine certainly shows no sign of wear. I have not seen any better on the market today.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: zimhunter]
      #8176 - 05/02/04 03:00 AM

Some people like Merkels

Some people like Searcy

Some people like Krieghoff

Others like the Heym or Chapuis

***

Some people sell the Merkel

Some people sell Krieghoff

Some people market the Searcy

Others sell Heym or Chapuis.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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mickey
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Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: zimhunter]
      #8177 - 05/02/04 03:28 AM

Zimhunter

Welcome to you also. We always can use new input. Do you know other Merkel owners? If this problem is true or even partially true it is not a good thing. Merkels cost a llot of money to not be reliable.

I have never shot one nor loooked closely at a well used one so can't speak to the issue but It seems it may be one, an issue.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Maverick
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Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: mickey]
      #8228 - 05/02/04 03:42 PM

I played with the Merkel before I bought the Searcy and liked it. Actually, the Searcy field grade is cheaper, and had better wood than the Merkel. I liked them both, but in the end the heftier Searcy won me over, not to mention the extra $1,500 I saved. While I've heard some negative things about the Merkel "shotgun tubes" thing (and I have no real knowledge of whether it's rifle on shotgun tubes or vice versa), I wouldn't be too concerned about it for the average hunter. I think any modern rifle is probably strong enough to withstand the uses that a hunter is going to put on it. If something were to go wrong, I would hope Merkel would fix it. I know Searcy warrants his guns for life.

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DUGABOY1
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Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: Phil_in_the_UK]
      #8249 - 06/02/04 04:02 AM

Phil, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a Searcy double rifle! If you want one, and are willing to wait for it to be built to fit you, it is a bargain. Don't believe all the crap you hear about this one, and that one, because most of the folks who tell you one or the other of these double rifle are best or worse ones, are, in most cases only repeating what they've heard someone else, who has no more kowledge about them than the guy telling the story!

As with any double, if you use proper loads, that conform to the pressure constraints of the cartridge chambered in the rifle, it will, with proper care, outlast you and your grand kids! The one exception to this is, never buy a double rifle chambered for a cartridge that is not designed for double rifles, like the 375 H&H belted magnum, or the 416 Rigby! These type cartridges develope too much chamber pressure, and were designed for bolt rifles, not doubles!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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DUGABOY1
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Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: luv2safari]
      #8253 - 06/02/04 04:40 AM

In reply to:

I was shown first hand why Merkels shoot off face yesterday, as I was having a scope in claw mounts fitted to my eye relief on my pre war Merkel o/u 9,3x74r. The gunsmith had an almost new 140-2.1 in 470 that was in bad shape...off face. He refused to work on the gun, even for a long time customer, saying that the problem is with the design.



I would like to ask you what, about a Anson & Deeley action is a "POOR DESIGN"? A full 50% of English doubles are built of A&D actions! The Merkel is built on an A&D action, and don't believe the bunk being spread about that Merkels are being built on weak shotgun action, it simply is not true! An A&D action is an A&D action, whether it has rifle barrels, or shot tubes on it.

I think your man is simply feeding you a load of crap, and is refuseing to work on the rifle because he dosen't know how to fix it, or what caused it! If it is off face because of over pressure,which is my guess, then it likely can't be fixed, well enough to be usefull,at under the cost of a new rifle, especially in a gunshop! If it is off face, however, from wear, which I doubt, unless it is a very old Merkel, then it is easily fixed if he knows how!

I would say the Merkel 470 you say is badly off face, was most likely off face because of a very over zelous hand loader, trying to get 460 Weatherby velocities, or useing Monolithic solids without reducing his loads to avoid the very high pressures generated when useing monolithic solids, with the same load use with conventional bullets.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Merkel chambered for 470NE, but anything can be destroyed by an idiot!

In reply to:

Since H&H and Kreighoff send this smith guns for re-regulating, I have to assume that he might know a bit more than many of us.



Why on Earth would Krieghoff, and H&H send rifles to this unknown to re-regulate their rifles? H&H, and Krieghoff rifles do not need re-regulateing. If they do, they are defective, and would go back to the maker! I would be very interested to know the name of this gunsmith, please!



--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
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Re: Who Has a Searcy Double? [Re: NitroX]
      #8255 - 06/02/04 05:07 AM

In reply to:

Some people like Merkels

Some people like Searcy

Some people like Krieghoff

Others like the Heym or Chapuis

***

Some people sell the Merkel

Some people sell Krieghoff

Some people market the Searcy

Others sell Heym or Chapuis.




AND................in every case the one who owns one, will down grade the rest! Everyone who sells one, will down grade the rest! It's called vested interest, folks!

Most of the crap I read on strings, like this, is simply folks repeating a load of Bug Dust they've heard another person spout, from a base of no knowledge, like themselves!

Nobody on this string, though some are very knowedgable, could possibly have owned, and shot all these rifles enough to make the statements I read. One week it is SEARCYs are no good, the next week it is Krieghoff's turn in the barrel, then they will move on to some other brand.

IMO, any double rifle you pay, in the neaghborhood of $10,000 USD, up, to get, is going to serve you well, as long as you do your part. I own, and have owned several Merkel rifles, and shotguns over the years, and I have to say, I Have never had a bad one. I certainly cant say that about some of the better known names! I don't own a Searcy, but I have known Butch for many years, and I know a lot of people who do own and use his rifles, and I can't tell you of even one who has had trouble with one of his rifles, and I defy anyone to show me a double rifle that shoots more accurately! Again, I can't say that for some of the so-called BETTER BRANDS!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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