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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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AdamTayler
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Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.
best military mauser action?
      #42246 - 23/11/05 05:41 PM

I hear good things about the Argentinian. What are your opinions? A friend of mine wants to build a 300 Win Mag.

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500Nitro
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: AdamTayler]
      #42249 - 23/11/05 07:21 PM


Yep, 1909 Agentinian is one of the better / best ones.

500 Nitro

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mhb
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Reged: 20/09/05
Posts: 77
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: AdamTayler]
      #42261 - 24/11/05 01:51 AM

The 1909 Argentine actions are very well-made and finished, but, in common with all the earlier M98 actions, are not so durable when used as the basis for more modern higher-pressure cartridges such as the .300 Win. Mag. In later (post - WW1) actions, the heattreatment was improved to give a deeper case hardening on the wear surfaces. Custom rifles built on these actions as-made often suffer from setback of the locking lugs into their seats in the receiver. There are specialists who will re-heattreat the action to prevent this, but this is an extra expense, and the results are not always acceptable (plus, there is always a risk of warpage or cracking in heattreatment - not lessened by the age and previous use of these actions).
Of the currently-available M98 military actions, the VZ24 is probably the best and most economical one available - they are all properly heattreated and well made.
However, since the cost of the completed rifle will include the costs of modifying the military action to accept and function with the .300 magnum, and incorporate the features found in commercial Mausers, why not start with one of those? New ones are available, made for the magnum family of cartridges, and used commercial Mauser-actioned rifles can be found at reasonable prices.
The truth is, unless you can accomplish most of the work yourself, modifying any military action to 'sporterize' it is, today, uneconomic, and the resulting rifle, no matter how satisfying to the owner, is not better in any respect than one built on a commercial action, and probably more expensive.

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DarylS
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: AdamTayler]
      #42264 - 24/11/05 02:20 AM

There were some 98's made by FN I think, in 1950 that is a good action. My Daughter has one on her .260 Rem. Other than that particular action, the VZ 24's are most sought after. I have used many other though, with perfect reliability and safety.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Judson
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Reged: 21/09/05
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: DarylS]
      #44960 - 27/12/05 11:09 AM


The 1909 is a great action and I have built many rifles on this action with no problem. However converting any military action involves lots of work and that means expense. True if done right you can end up with a true one of a kind custom job but it will cost you. If you want to go with a military action and go this way look at the P-14, P-17 actions, they are big strong and when re worked right look like a 720 Remington.

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It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: AdamTayler]
      #45246 - 30/12/05 07:58 AM

Adam,

I have a rifle made by a member at AR himself on a wartime DuV 42 action with a Douglas barrel and folding leaf sights in 8x57 JS. It seems to work really well and is quite accurate. Some of the members here who came to the BGRC shoot at Lodi have seen my rifle.

I guess I was lucky to have a rifle built on a military wartime action that works well. My next one will be built on a VZ 24.

Best wishes

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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gryphon
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #45271 - 30/12/05 11:28 AM

What are the Parker hale safari grade actions built from? Ex military? Appreciate replies thanks.

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Safarischorsch
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Reged: 28/02/04
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: DarylS]
      #45554 - 03/01/06 02:27 AM

You are right. The FN 98 System has the best quality(but very expensive!) followed by argentino and DWM.

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DarylS
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: gryphon]
      #45947 - 07/01/06 06:12 AM

The Parker Hale actions I have had in the past, were comercial 98's without the thumb groove, like the Mark X Mauser action. They are just fine and I prefer not having the thumb groove as all my Mausers now have scopes. Thumb grooves are nice in standard calibres for speed strip loaders for rifles with express sights. Unfortunaely, I haven't seen any strip loaders for a .532" rim. When hunting, it would be nice to carry an extra 3 to 5 rounds on a strip, in the pocket, along with whatever is in the rifle. Up here, one never knows when he'll run into a pack of wolves that needs thinning out.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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gryphon
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: DarylS]
      #45961 - 07/01/06 08:37 AM

Thanks for that info Daryl S

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AdamTayler
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Reged: 22/03/04
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: DarylS]
      #46034 - 08/01/06 07:20 AM

Well, my friend picked up two military F.N. mausers that are in 30-06 which supposedly were made for the war in the Congo back in the 50's. His gunsmith is happy with them and so is he.

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EricD
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Reged: 27/02/04
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: AdamTayler]
      #54301 - 07/04/06 01:23 AM

Adam,

I moved this thread from the rifle forum, to over here on the new Mauser forum.

Erik

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375Brno
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: EricD]
      #54334 - 07/04/06 08:39 AM

Hi

Can someone tell me the difference between the VZ24 and CZ24 actions. Have seen CZs (actions) advertised at reasonable prices so figure they may not be as good as the VZs ??

Regards
Rick

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4seventy
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: gryphon]
      #54338 - 07/04/06 09:43 AM

In reply to:

What are the Parker hale safari grade actions built from? Ex military?



Gryph,
The earlier Parker Hale rifles were built on military 98's.
I have owned two of these, a "Safari" in 30-06, and a "Safari Deluxe" in .243.
Both featured military thumb slot actions and cocking piece safeties.
They were good rifles.
Later models used commercial actions.

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gryphon
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: 4seventy]
      #54340 - 07/04/06 09:57 AM

Tar for that mate,now whats the sure fire way of ID-ing wether commercial or military,it dosent really worry one way or another as the old girl is a good rifle for any pupose in Australia that i have.

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4seventy
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: gryphon]
      #54344 - 07/04/06 10:14 AM

If it is a PH Safari and has a thumb slot it is a military action, to the best of my knowledge.
No thumb slot, it must be commercial.
The Parker Hale "Safari" was made with BOTH mil and comm actions.
Yeah Gryph I agree that they were a damn solid rifle capable of fine accuracy and lifetimes of reliable service regardless of which action was used.



Edited by 4seventy (07/04/06 10:22 AM)

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banzaibird
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Reged: 18/09/05
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: AdamTayler]
      #54347 - 07/04/06 10:30 AM

The 1910 and 1936 Mexicans are pretty good for custom work. They are a small ring 98 design. I still have a couple of those actions floating around. Also one of the most sought after is G33/40. They are hard to find and expensive when you do.

Bill

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A10ACN
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Reged: 30/01/05
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: banzaibird]
      #54466 - 09/04/06 03:13 AM

Banzaibird-
PM sent.

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MattieA
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Reged: 06/04/07
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Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: best military mauser action? [Re: A10ACN]
      #76626 - 16/04/07 04:49 AM

I'd really like to find some general information on the quality of heat-treating on military & commercial Mauser actions over the years. Did they get a little better each year, or were there certain years when the heat treating suddenly improved? Might the post-war commercial Mausers, like the FN and Husqvarna, be the best for re-barreling for modern cartridges? I am almost incapable of passing up a good Mauser action for sale, and have several Argentines, a VZ24, a Mexican, a Peruvian, a Polish Radom and two G33/40s.
One of these, probably an Argentine or the VZ, will become a 404 Jeffrey one of these years.

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hoppdoc
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: MattieA]
      #76654 - 16/04/07 01:02 PM

Is the FN preferable to the Husqvarna? Husqvarna evolved their action over the years with a side mounted safety and other improvements.I don't know the history of the FN's but they have a good rep.

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (16/04/07 01:02 PM)

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bulldog563
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #76692 - 16/04/07 11:32 PM

Anyone know where I can get a clean 1935 Chilean or two?

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xausa
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Re: best military mauser action? [Re: AdamTayler]
      #76713 - 17/04/07 02:30 AM

My late lamented gunsmith friend George Fullmer, a frequent contributor to Precision Shooting magazine on gunsmithing mattters, used to do a hardness test on every military action brought to him for rebarrelling. In his (emphatically expressed) opinion, only the German actions actually made by Mauser Werke were worth the expense of remodelling into sporting rifles. I don't know how much exposure he had to the Czech manufactured Mausers. I have a 7X57 on a G33/40 action with a featherweight barrel which is probably my favorite all round non-DG hunting rifle, but of course the 7X57 cartridge is the category of cartridge the M98 was designed to accomodate.

I would recommend George's hardness test precaution to anyone considering investing the amount of money necessary to convert a military Mauser to use a large high intensity cartridge. It's probably not necessary for an 8X57 class (.244 Remington, .257 Roberts, 6.5X57, 7X57, 9X57, 9.3X57 or 9.5X57)
cartridge, and all those cartridges have the advantage of being usable in an unaltered magazine.

When I started having sporting rifles built back in the 1950's, there were any number of articles in shooting publications, particularly The American Rifleman, about rebuilding military rifles into hunting or target rifles. I was certainly bitten by the bug, and consequently have more than my share of converted military rifles, mostly Springfields and Enfields, in my gun room. If I had it to do all over again, I would have opted for using the pre-64 Model 70 action for all those projects.

Even then, when you could buy a usable 98 Mauser action for $25.00, it made little sense to use one, when Model 70 Winchesters were easily available in the $75 to $100 range. The Mausers required bolt handle alteration, safety alteration, a new trigger and in the case of .30-'06 length cartridges, magazine alteration, none of which was needed in a Model 70.

Beat-up pre-64 Model 70's are still available in the $500.00 range, and IMHO make a much better basis for a really nice hunting rifle.

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