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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive

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WI32nd
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Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 6
Loc: WI, USA
8mm Lee Speed rifles
      #75712 - 06/04/07 07:20 AM

Am I correct that the 8mm chambering for the Lee Speed rifle is the 8X50R Austrian and that the brass can be formed from the Russian 7.62???

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3475
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 8mm Lee Speed rifles [Re: WI32nd]
      #76414 - 13/04/07 08:43 PM

Normally 8x57JR or 8mm Mauser (rimmed or flanged). Later manufacture may have switched to the 8x57JRS chambering.

Never heard of one chambered for the Austrian cartridge, which is mainly used in Mauser rifles, Mannlicher Schoenauers, and straight-pull Steyrs, but anything is possible I guess.

Normal Lee Speed 'factory' chamberings were .303, 7x57R and 8x57R, .375 NE, and the .405 Winchester. If the 8x50R was ever an original BSA factory chambering, it appears to have escaped the historical record.

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
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www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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enfieldspares
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Reged: 12/07/07
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Re: 8mm Lee Speed rifles [Re: Marrakai]
      #82496 - 16/07/07 04:39 AM

I can't answer for the first post, but I have seen, and did own, a Lee Enfield rifle chambered for the unusual 8x56R, not 8x50R, cartridge. The one that fired a very long and heavy bullet of over 200 grains. From memory it was made on a No4 action. Bizarre! Needless to say it was never fired by me as availabilty of ammunition was practically nil!

Edited by enfieldspares (16/07/07 04:43 AM)


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Savuti_One_Shot
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Reged: 24/01/07
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Re: 8mm Lee Speed rifles [Re: enfieldspares]
      #83084 - 26/07/07 08:38 AM

Yes, the 8x50 was a Lee Speed chambering, I think Taylor mentioned it in African Rifles......

I had a beautiful example in my hands once a few years ago. It was marked 8m/m 2.06".

I was so P.O.'d that it wasn't a 303 as promised by the seller that I returned it!

I know, never been accused of being overly bright.....................

Can't help you with a parent case, but I think Buffalo Arms has what you want.

SOS

--------------------
"I've this damned cannon." - Robert Wilson


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88MauSporter
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Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: 8mm Lee Speed rifles [Re: Savuti_One_Shot]
      #83088 - 26/07/07 10:23 AM

I have a '95 Steyre carbine for 8X56R and Buffalo Arms does have the brass. Graf and sons sells Hornady and Prini loaded rounds with boxer primers and the correct .329 diameter bullets. Graf and Buffalo also carry the bullets. Lee makes a bullet mold specifically for this cartridge.
I would much love to have the Lee Speed in any caliber.

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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Savuti_One_Shot
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Re: 8mm Lee Speed rifles [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #83102 - 26/07/07 09:50 PM

My memory appears to be improving with age!

Found the Taylor reference. He calls it the .315 Austrian Mannlicher.
"The BSA people used to make a magazine rifle to handle it because of its low chamber pressure."

Single paragraph immediately preceeding the 8x57 entry.

Buffalo Arms has 8x50R Austrian brass. The * indicates they form it from a more readily available case. You could call and ask what case they start with, though at $41/50 it's not worth my time to form cases.

SOS

--------------------
"I've this damned cannon." - Robert Wilson


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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Re: 8mm Lee Speed rifles [Re: Savuti_One_Shot]
      #83501 - 03/08/07 11:16 PM

"Lee Speed" is an unfamiliar term for me. Does the "Speed" refer to the co-designer, as in "Lee Metford"?

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3475
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 8mm Lee Speed rifles [Re: xausa]
      #83562 - 05/08/07 09:36 AM

Joseph James Speed was a mechanical engineer from Waltham Cross, Hertfordshire, who registered a number of arms patents in 1887 and 1888:

Pat.No. 6335; 30/04/1887
Magazine cut-off for single loading.

Pat.No. 13,335; 01/10/1887
Improvements to the Lee Rifle, specifically butt-stock, bolt-head, extractor, bolt-cover, and long-range sight.

Pat.No. 17,944; 13/12/1887
Magazine spring

Pat.No. 15,786; 01/11/1888
More improvements to the Lee rifle, ie safety catch, detachable hand-guard, disposable magazine, and double-column magazine.

Many of Speed's patents remained in manufacture for perhaps 80 years, a remarkable achievement! Despite this, only the commercial variant of the Magazine Lee Enfield, dubbed the 'Lee Speed', bears his name.

I assume James Paris Lee needs no such introduction here!

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: 8mm Lee Speed rifles [Re: Marrakai]
      #83961 - 13/08/07 01:50 AM

Quote:

If the 8x50R was ever an original BSA factory chambering, it appears to have escaped the historical record.




It only appears that way because, as per usual, the British didn't call it that. They called it the 8mm BSA.

Savuti is right. The Lee Speed was definitely manufactured by BSA in 8mm BSA/.315 Lee-Enfield/8X50R. However, Taylor was speculating and got it wrong. They didn't choose it just for it's low pressure. BSA obviously picked it up because of it's close similarity (physical dimensions of the basic case and performance, and thus easy to make function in the Lee) to the cartridge that the Lee sporters had been most popularly chambered for - the outlawed .303 British.

India was the 900 pound gorilla of British sporting rifle markets in those days. None of the other markets even came close. The .303 was banned by order of the Governor-in-Council for Bombay in March, 1899, creating a very real crisis for the British gun trade. As was famously the case with the .450s some years later (ironically, there was never an order banning the .450s) a number of "replacements" for the .303 were then introduced in 1899 and 1900 - .400/.350, .400/.360, .375 2.5" Flanged, etc. The "8mm BSA" was the obvious choice for the Lee, for trade in India. The ban seems to have remained in force until independence.

You'll find the rifle on page 70 of Manton's 1926 - 1927 catalogue. "BSA .315 Lee-Enfield Magazine Sporting Rifle". The load is given as 34 grains smokeless and a 240 grain bullet for 2,030 fps. Extensive as it is, and as popular as the .303 was in the British sphere of influence at the time, the catalogue contains no .303 rifles of any kind.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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TRX
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Reged: 02/11/08
Posts: 24
Loc: Central Arkansas
Re: 8mm Lee Speed rifles [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #148864 - 25/12/09 01:28 PM

You can still buy the ".315/8mm" Enfield in India, new 2009 manufacture. The cartridge looks like the 8x50R to me...

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/5.htm


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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: 8mm Lee Speed rifles [Re: TRX]
      #148927 - 27/12/09 05:12 AM

Considering that hardly any Indians buy it, and that it costs well over $ 1500 retail in India, I doubt it is worth spending any money on this junk. If the Indian ordnance Factories price it at the $ 90 or so that they sell their surplus old Enfields for, it might be worth considering.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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Old_Glass
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Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 113
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: 8mm Lee Speed rifles [Re: xausa]
      #174131 - 26/01/11 06:40 AM

Quote:

"Lee Speed" is an unfamiliar term for me. Does the "Speed" refer to the co-designer, as in "Lee Metford"?




"J.J. Speed, then (1887) Assistant Manager at the Royal Small Arms Factory, Enfield, made certain improvements in, and was to play an important role in evolution of the (Lee Enfield) service rifle. He took out a number of patents on various improvements to the Lee system, some of which were yet to be incorporated . Acknowledgment of his patents is found on commercially produced Lee Metford and Lee Enfield rifles which are marked "Lee Speed Patents"

Joseph Speed first came to the Enfield factory as an engineer at the age of twenty five, and worked his way up to the post of Asst. Manager through his ability and application. There was considerable controversy over his taking out patents at a time when he was a government employee, and unlike Metford and other inventors who made contributions, he received no monetary reward from the War Office for the utilization of his inventions."

(The British Service Lee, P.25)


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