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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive
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WI32nd
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Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 6
Loc: WI, USA
Army and Navy Lee Speeds
      #75626 - 05/04/07 10:29 AM

Does anyone have information on the Army and Navy Co-Operative Society. I have three Lee Speeds by them all in 303 and am wondering if they had other calibers?? Did they put out a catalog and if so is there one out there original or copies?? I know other makers/distributors had the 375 and 8mm in the Lee.

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Army and Navy Lee Speeds [Re: WI32nd]
      #75653 - 05/04/07 02:07 PM

All Lee Speeds were made by BSA, and retailed by the trade. Army & Navy and WW Greener appear to have made a specialty of them, and I have also seen William, Moore & Grey, and Alex Martin marked rifles. Most retailers would have listed the Lee Speed in some form or another in their catalogues around the turn of the previous century.

Standard chamberings were .303, .375 NE, 7mm and 8mm Mauser (flanged), and .405 Winchester. All these cartridges were loaded by Kynoch at the time.

We can be reasonably confident that Army & Navy would have carried, or had available on order, the full range of chamberings and grades.

I have seen a reasonably history of A&N somewhere, will have a look through the library on the weekend.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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WI32nd
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Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 6
Loc: WI, USA
Re: Army and Navy Lee Speeds [Re: Marrakai]
      #75684 - 06/04/07 01:32 AM

Thanks for the info. I do have a 375 by Holland & Holland but was not sure Army Navy offered the caliber.

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SteveH
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Reged: 26/12/03
Posts: 118
Loc: Hillsboro, Oregon
Re: Army and Navy Lee Speeds [Re: WI32nd]
      #75978 - 09/04/07 05:06 AM

I think that if you e-mail the University of Glasgow about your gun, they might be able to help. The have the records from the Army & Navy Co-operative Society.

http://www.archives.gla.ac.uk/collects/catalog/hf/hf128.html

-Steve

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WI32nd
.224 member


Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 6
Loc: WI, USA
Re: Army and Navy Lee Speeds [Re: SteveH]
      #76067 - 10/04/07 06:28 AM

Thanks again. I did email and am waiting on their reply. Do you/anyone know for sure what the 8MM chambering is that BSA and other catalogs list as the 315 bore 8MM in the Lee's. Is it the 8X50R Austrian???

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
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Re: Army and Navy Lee Speeds [Re: WI32nd]
      #76096 - 10/04/07 02:27 PM

WI32nd,

Lee Speeds were built in the 8x50R Steyr. Is this rifle on sale in Wisconsin or is it somewhere else? I know of a nice William Moore and Grey in 8x50R that has been on sale in the UK for some time, hence the question.

BTW I used to live in Appleton but had to move to Chicago because of my career. My wife hasn't forgiven me for moving more than two years after we moved...

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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WI32nd
.224 member


Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 6
Loc: WI, USA
Re: Army and Navy Lee Speeds [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #76172 - 11/04/07 05:56 AM

Its a Parker Hale BSA rifle I purchased at a gunshow here in Wisconsin. It is marked 8MM Nitro Proved. Is there any legal way to purchase guns from the UK and have them imported?

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Army and Navy Lee Speeds [Re: WI32nd]
      #76422 - 13/04/07 09:31 PM

Mehul and WI32nd:
I would be very interested to learn more of the 8x50R chambering in the Lee Speed. Can you confirm that it is original, ie chambered by BSA? I have done a fair bit of background research on this topic, and cannot find a printed reference to the 50mm case in the existing literature (hence my reply on the other thread, before reading this).

I am in the process of tossing together an article for our local Arms Collectors Assn newsletter, so would appreciate something concrete. If the 8x50R-chambered barrels carry British proof marks for the period, that would be worth knowing (...and worth a photograph, BTW!). While I appreciate that a 'one-off' re-barrel could have occurred at any time over the last 100 years or so, it's possible that an individual maker such as WM&G could have specialised in rebarreling for a 'proprietry' chambering.

I'm all ears!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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WI32nd
.224 member


Reged: 02/04/07
Posts: 6
Loc: WI, USA
Re: Army and Navy Lee Speeds [Re: Marrakai]
      #76477 - 14/04/07 11:15 AM

Here's what I know or don't know. I have two Lee's that are marked 8MM. One is a BSA Co and is marked Parker Hale. The second is a LSA Co and is an Alex Henry & Co Edinburgh . Both are marked on the barrels 8MM and British proofed. When I purchased the Alex Henry I also go with it a box of Kynoch 8MM Mannlicher (8X50R) ammunition and some reloads formed from Russian 7.62X54 that were marked 8X50R Austrian. The seller claimed these were for the rifle??? Catalogs I have seen from the 1920's-30's list rifles in 8MM described as 315bore especially for use in India or places the 303 was prohibited in as much as it was a military cartidge. The balistics in the catalogs are identical to those of the 8X50R. I will try to get a chamber case done in the near future and report back.

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Army and Navy Lee Speeds [Re: Marrakai]
      #76538 - 15/04/07 04:21 AM

Marrakai,

Sending you a PM after this with the contact details of someone in the UK who would be able to help. There are several 8x50Rs that have come up on sale in the UK recently with various dealers and at auctions there. You know vastly more about classic guns than I ever will and I hope that we shall get to read your article here. But, my friend has shown me a few Lee Speeds that came up on sale with other dealers in the UK recently and there were some in 8x50R. Perhaps they were made for sale in Africa? I don't know but am sure that he would be able to provide more information. He looks for nice guns for me as he knows my taste very well and also for Oldsarge who is another fine member here. I'll put you in touch.

WI32nd,

It is, indeed, a small world and I am now going to pester you to please post something that I requested you about in private. Believe me, this is a forum whose members are among the most advanced students of fine guns and I am sure that everyone would agree that what I am talking about is unusual and one of the finest. Please do post pictures whenever you find time and thanks in advance.

Very best wishes and good hunting, gentlemen!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Army and Navy Lee Speeds [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #76610 - 15/04/07 11:20 PM

Mehul:
Many thanks for that info by PM. I will compose an appropriate enquiry in the next few days.
Very interesting indeed!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Army and Navy Lee Speeds [Re: Marrakai]
      #76786 - 17/04/07 11:04 PM

OK fella's here is a BSA with a very different makers name.

I might have posted pics of this one before.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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