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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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hoppdoc
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Loc: Southeastern USA
Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt??
      #75261 - 02/04/07 01:36 AM

Everyone knows how crazy and unpredicatable Alaskan weather can be. This is simply murder on wooden stocks and blued actions.

Was talking with two friends who are going to Alaska for Brown Bear, one with a Ruger All weather 338WM and the other with a 340 Weatherby.The conversation heated up when I told them they both might need a bigger bore.VM(340 WBY) was particularly miffed when I said he needed a bigger bore and less velocity.

Of course after multiple beers we all agreed on everything!!!!

Wonder if they will remember?

So friends--WHAT FACTORY BOLT GUN??? for alaskan Brown Bear?

I suggested the new Ruger Alaskan in 375 Ruger or find a Winchester SS 375 H&H with synthetic stock.
Or bigger/better maybe even a 416 with an aftermarket synthetic stock(no synthetic Factory 416 bolts I know of).

We all agreed we are talking shots here out to 125 yd-150yd max.

Any Additional/better thoughts/suggestions/comments???

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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AdamTayler
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #75276 - 02/04/07 02:17 AM

I think there is nothing wrong with their choices.

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Dave_Hall
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: AdamTayler]
      #75299 - 02/04/07 05:20 AM

You still see a lot of hunting shows where Guides use the 458 Win.Dave

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pinotguy
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: Dave_Hall]
      #75342 - 02/04/07 08:01 AM

When you consider the ranges your friends will be hunting at, I wonder if something like a 35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser might be a better choice. Both are proven big-game cartridges.

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WyoJoe
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: pinotguy]
      #75387 - 02/04/07 11:51 PM

When I lived there people whacked them with a .30-06 regularly. So I would say anything in that class on up. Pinotguy's suggestion of the .35 Whelen & 9.62 are good. But if it was me I would take a .375 H&H, simply because I like it. You can get by pretty well with diligent maintenance on your rifle. Make sure the action & barrel channel are glass bedded. You can free float the barrel but leave enough glass so that the barrel channel is protected. Keep the action, barrel and even the stock wiped down (I like WD-40) and you should be good to go even with blued steel & a walnut stock. Take a cleaning kit with you to keep the bore clean. Other than that, take what ever make & model that trips your trigger.

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There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"

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DarylS
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: WyoJoe]
      #75392 - 03/04/07 01:26 AM

I believe the choices made by these hunters, the pair of .338's is a good one. The bloke with the WTBY needs to be careful on his choice of bullets, of course, but any Nosler or better will suffice just fine.
: The .338 is plenty for big bears. There are many hunters out there who cannot handle the recoil of a little 7mm mag, let alone a real big game rifle. The .340 WTBY kicks enough more and 'looks' enough bigger than the .338WM that many guys with them cannot shoot them accurately. This is merely an observation of my own, from watching such people at the range. Many guys think the little .338 WM kicks, and with some stock designs, it does. With a good stock, it seems to kick about the same as a lightweight .30/06 factory rifle.
: The fact that many guides choose .375's and .458's reflects needs which are driven from a different perspective. The guide only shoots animals that have been hit poorly and thus requires a rifle with more clout than the hunting rifle possesses.
: I do not trust any oil finish. They let water in, period. The only two finishes that come close to paint, is Spar Varnish or one of the epoxy finishes, properly applied. Nice thing about paint is that it can be removed afterwards if desired.
: The Savage Weather Warrior in .338 is a great hunting rifle for tough weather and game - perhaps the best all-round & probably the most accurate rifle you can buy for less than $1,000 and they're only 1/2 that + a bit. A few years back, it came out in .375H&H - slightly better, power wise than the .338 but probaby not noticable by the game. My buddies .375H&H Savage WW puts 3, 270gr. Horandy's at an easy shooting 2,550fps, into 3/8" groups EVERY time. At that velocity, they slay moose and drop bears dead, giving excellent penetration. He is the best game shot I've ever seen. There is no need for more velocity in descent sized bores.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bulldog563
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: DarylS]
      #75623 - 05/04/07 10:06 AM

If I were to buy a dedicated AK Brown Bear rig (and price was a consideration) I would order a Hein in 375 H&H with a synthetic stock and some high tech coating like Roguard or NP3. Other choices for me would be the 338WM, 416 Rigby or 458 Lott (depending on how thick the bush would usually be and how close I would have to get).

Don't hate on the 338WM though, it is a fine cartridge.

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hoppdoc
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: bulldog563]
      #75630 - 05/04/07 10:50 AM

If it functions ok I wouldn't mind having the Ruger Alaskan 375 with some handloads.

If it passes muster and basic functioning tests at speed I would consider it. Problem--Gunstore help get a little excited when you load the magazine with purchased bullets and then run the mag rapido through the chamber even with the rifle safety postioned correctedly.

Not the slickest or fanciest but a basic tool to get the job done!!Handloading with Northforks or Swift A Frames would seem to be a natural combo here.

--------------------
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Nick_AK
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Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 2
Loc: Alaska
Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #75748 - 06/04/07 05:12 PM

A lot of folks up here get wrapped up in the stainless/synthetic mantra. For the last five years I've hunted exclusivly with a wood/blued '53 model 70 in .375H&H. I don't bother with oil, furnature wax seals far better. I swab the whole thing down with minwax and call it good. My hunting partner uses a stainless/synthetic model 70 and it has more rust than mine. 416 is NOT rustproof, but rust resistant. Anyway, that's my experience. Also, weatherbies are too dang fast for reliable bullet performance. Nobody hunts cape buff with a hyper-velocity cartridge -and for good reason. Don't underestimate North America's dangerous game.
Sincerely,
Nick

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: Nick_AK]
      #75781 - 07/04/07 04:01 AM

Nick,

Welcome to NE.com. Your .375 sounds like a winner. I had one just like it for quite a few years and then let it go a couple years ago. Probably should have kept it.

Thanks for joining the group.

Curl

--------------------
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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Nick_AK
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: CptCurl]
      #75794 - 07/04/07 07:22 AM

CptCurl, thanks for the welcome! I've been lurking for some time now. This sight is a real treasure for those of us who have an interest in the big bores. I hope from time to time I'll have something to add, but don't count on me flappin' my gums for post count's sake!
Sincerely,
Nick

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Ripp
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #75804 - 07/04/07 09:01 AM

When I hunted my brown bear I used a Winchester model 70 in .375 H&H which seemed to work fine. Since then I have been with friend who have used anything from a 300 Win. mag on up --with the proper bullets, they all have worked quite well. Again, as in all game, shot placement is huge..
Ripp

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bonanza
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: Ripp]
      #75810 - 07/04/07 09:57 AM

Hey HoppDoc

1: What does hoppdoc mean?

2: Thanks for not shouting.

Here goes nothing. Probably none. I would think that the “best” Alaskan bolt gun needs to be custom made. Here are my specifications:

1: made entirely from SS
2: indestructible stock
3: loose tolerances
4: freeze proof
5: super duty fixed sights
6: no safety what so-ever
7: straight over-sized bolt handle
8: 20” barrel
9: 458 Win Mag
10: super duty trigger
11: 5' repeat drop test
12: protected muzzle
13: cross bolt
14: flat black cermi-coat
15: non-detach magazine

Just to begin with.

--------------------


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"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

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AzGuy
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Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 388
Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: bonanza]
      #75811 - 07/04/07 10:03 AM

bonanza,

You sure like your rifles pretty!!

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: bonanza]
      #75834 - 07/04/07 09:19 PM

Quote:

6: no safety what so-ever


Wow! I just can't agree with that one. The rest sounds pretty good though.

For my project I think I would have a .375 H&H Mag. and a QD scope such as the Schmidt & Bender 1.25 x 4. This would reach out and touch someone a little better than a .458.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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SAFARIKID
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Reged: 08/09/05
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: CptCurl]
      #75840 - 07/04/07 11:13 PM

Go to classifieds and see my .416 Rem 700 Titanium...Its light-5pds,short-38" and powerful-5000pds energy! Easy to carry,short for going through the heavy alders adn pushes 300-400X bullets for a KO punch on that Big Brownie! Stainless and Kevlar for weatherproof..Put a pair of QD mounts on it and a 1-5 power scope of your liking and your "loaded for bear"!...Thanks for looking~

--------------------
Lots of BIG Bores!

Edited by SAFARIKID (07/04/07 11:14 PM)

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hoppdoc
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: SAFARIKID]
      #84686 - 26/08/07 10:17 PM

With Africa getting $$crazy I think Alaska is looking better indeed--

To repeat the basic premise of this thread--

So friends--WHAT FACTORY BOLT GUN??? is best for Alaskan Brown Bear?

What distances are most Brown Bear taken at?? 25,50,75?,100?

I would think certainly inside 75 yards--

I think the 375H&H and 416's are great and give reassuring ballistics with a bonded softnose bullet. Yes a 30.06 will kill Bear just as dead if you shoot them right but I would think one would want them whacked,DEAD, and out of the fight ASAP!!!

Factory Guns are looking like the Ruger 375 Alaskan, The Remington Custom Shop rifles with synthetic stocks,but few other candidates--

Any suggestions for a Alaskan best bolt gun?

A custom bolt per bonanza's specs would be interesting!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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Tatume
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #84694 - 27/08/07 01:41 AM

Hello Folks,

Rifles intended for hunting should be considered separately from rifles intended for backing up hunters. The hunter and guide have different requirements. While either rifle can be made to do the other job, each has its optimal place.

The hunter should be prepared to take longer shots, and will probably be shooting at an unexcited animal. A 30-06 with the 200 gr Nosler Partition at 2500 fps will fill the bill nicely. It can be sighted two inches high at 100 yards, and will then be only one inch low at 200 yards, enabling a first shot with high precision.

The guide should be prepared to stop a charge. A larger, more powerful cartridge is needed. The 458 Win Mag is an example of an ideal cartridge, one of many. While it can be used for longer shots, it is optimal for short-range stopping.

Placing an accurate, killing first shot on the animal should be the top priority. Then, if circumstances still dictate trailing and finishing a wounded, dangerous animal, I personally feel well-prepared with my 30-06 backed up by an experienced guide with his 458 Win Mag.

The original question pertained to the rifle itself. My choice for hunting is the HS Precision Sporter in 30-06, with 22-inch barrel. This is a Teflon-coated stainless steel gun in a synthetic stock. They are very accurate and very reliable.

Take care, Tom

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Schamankungulo
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: Tatume]
      #84699 - 27/08/07 04:27 AM

458 Lott , cant kill 'em to dead ..

Or a 458 Win Mag if the Lott is a bit too abusive for you ..

Well placed first shot is the trick tho' ..

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hoppdoc
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: Tatume]
      #84700 - 27/08/07 04:28 AM

No offense to anyone but personally I would not use a 30.06.Yes, with correct placement it will kill a Brown deader than stone.What if something goes wrong? What if you have to go in the alders after a pissed off Brown to sort things out??

I do not think one need have a bazooka to take on a Brown but a 30.06 seems a bit small for a 1000+ animal with a bad temperment.

I agree different roles are present with hunter/guide but I don't want to rely on entirely on someone elses "stopper" in a DG situation.It could even get you killed.

The 375 Ruger Alaskan seems the best factory gun available but there may be others??

Personally I would use my synthetic custom 416 Rem bolt.Shoot'm, break him down,and not worry about "problems" like a charge.If things go bad then I have more of a "stopper" than a lesser gun.

Overkill?? Maybe,JMHO--

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bonanza
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #84706 - 27/08/07 07:07 AM

My Dakota .375 that is for sale of course

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allenday
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #84713 - 27/08/07 08:56 AM

Here comes another "bullet-proof" big game animal thread........

The next time I hunt any sort of grizzly anywhere, I'll be taking my trusty 338 Win. Mag., and I think that bigger-caliber, heavy rifles are an unnecessary nuisance and an all-around hindrance, and yes, I've been there and I've done it before myself, so I'm not preaching theory. If you can't kill the biggest grizzly that walks this earth cleanly with a 338 Winchester with a premium 250 gr. bullet, you won't be able to kill him with anything else, either.

Let's put it this way, your real problem will be looking back at you in the mirror - it won't be the rifle!

The truth is, it's not the thunder that kills, it's the LIGHTNING, and I think 90% of all pilgrims who ever dream of hunting big bears would be better off with a 30-06 that they can shoot well, rather than some sort of 375 howitzer that they might just maybe can't shoot.

Cool nerves, good bullets, and good shot placement are the things that iron-out big bears cleanly and for keeps, and those factors are far, FAR more important than a big rifle, in and of itself.

AD

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bonanza
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: allenday]
      #84716 - 27/08/07 09:51 AM

Allen,

By now you must have realized that the men on the forum toss all logic on its head in pursuit of romance. We are, by and large, complete gun cranks and will lug a 11 lbs double around in hope of reliving the trill the old goat had when the gun was new.

With Afrika slipping out if the grasps for most us of, we must turn to Alaska and face the Griz. on his terms, in his domain.

B.

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ejfudd
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Loc: connecticut, usa
Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: bonanza]
      #84721 - 27/08/07 11:16 AM

I am leaving in a couple weeks for a combo Moose / Brown Bear trip in AK. My rifle began as a Winchester M70 Stainless Classic in .375 H&H before I turned it over to Griffin & Howe for:

1) Trigger Job and general refinement of action

2) New stainless bottom metal (unnecessary cosmetic luxury)

3) Griffin topmount with electroless nickle plate

4) Griffin fixed sights and barrel band also electroless plated. The factory barrel was very accurate so it was retained.

5) McMillan Stock

--------------------
JLE

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Schamankungulo
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Reged: 21/04/07
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Re: Best Alaskan Big Bore Bolt?? [Re: bonanza]
      #84726 - 27/08/07 12:48 PM

Quote:

Allen,

We are, by and large, complete gun cranks and will lug a 11 lbs double around in hope of reliving the trill the old goat had when the gun was new.

B.




I resemble that remark , How dare you !!!

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