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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Favourite Caliber
      #74825 - 28/03/07 02:33 PM

Let's forget about availability of ammunition.

If you could only have one Double Rifle what would it be.

For me it would be the 375 fl. as I would feel adequately armed to hunt anything in the World under ideal conditions and must everything under less than ideal circumstance.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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Dave_Hall
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Reged: 09/12/06
Posts: 185
Loc: PA. ,U.S.A.
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: mickey]
      #74846 - 28/03/07 05:58 PM

I love the .458 bullet,so it would be the 450 Nitro.I can use it on any big game animal here in PA.,and around the world.The biggest animal I want to hunt is the Hippo one on land would be nice.I'd like to take a Cape or two with it,too.I wouldn't be real picky on who made it if I bought one used.Tough to find a 450 used the good selection starts at 500 most of the time.Dave

--------------------
The Great .458
45-90 WCF
45-120 Sharps
450 Nitro Express
2011 Ruger SP-101 4.2" 357 MAG.


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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: mickey]
      #74850 - 28/03/07 08:02 PM

I speak very much as a newbie on Doubles, and although I enjoy my 500NE,
I sure would love to have a full featured 450/400 with a qd scope setup.

That would just be plain SEXY!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: mickey]
      #74854 - 28/03/07 09:26 PM

Mick, I think I'm with you on the .375 Flanged Magnum.

But I am not opposed to the .375 Belted Magnum either. Lots of people sit in their armchairs and opine that the belted round is unacceptable for being "high pressure" and "rimless". I find neither feature particularly distracting. I load my belted magnum to the "Graeme Wright recommended load" for .375 Flanged, which he tested at 14 tons. There goes the "high pressure" issue. This load is mild and regulates fine. On the other issue, I have never had any difficulty with rimless extraction in any of my double rifles.

I agree that the best of all worlds is a flanged cartridge of low to moderate pressure. On the other hand, there's something really satisfying when I order 100 rounds of .375 Belted Magnum from Midway for peanuts.

By the way, I have one .375 Flanged Magnum and two .375 Belted Magnum double rifles.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: CptCurl]
      #74856 - 28/03/07 09:58 PM


Agree

375 Cal - H&H or Flanged Magnum.


By the way, I have two Doubles in .375 Flanged Magnum and
Doubles in two .375 Belted Magnum !


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bwana600nitro
.224 member


Reged: 13/02/06
Posts: 41
Loc: San Antonio, Texas
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: 500Nitro]
      #74862 - 29/03/07 12:04 AM

Well,

I always wanted a 476 nitro, but the sweetest shooting double, If I could have one would be a brand new FAMARS 450/400 3". Thats my story and I'm sticking to it!

Ed

--------------------
"The big ones look big" Jack O'Conner


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AzGuy
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Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 388
Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: mickey]
      #74874 - 29/03/07 01:46 AM

This is starting to sound like a 375 fan club!

Quote:

Let's forget about availability of ammunition.





With the above "qualifier" in mind, the 375 Flg. But I like Curl's idea/practice of inexpensive factory ammo. Does anyone produce factory 375 Flg. ammo?

Curl & 500: What are the weights of your various 375's ?


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
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Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: AzGuy]
      #74896 - 29/03/07 04:41 AM

Arizona,

Kynoch lists .375 Flanged at this URL:

http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/

Weights:

Merkel 323E .375 Belted Mag. - 9.24 lbs. No scope.




Ludwig Borovnik .375 Belted Mag. - 10.46 lbs. w/o scope; 11.82 lbs. w/ 1.5-6 Swarovski scope.




Holland & Holland Royal Hammerless Ejector .375 Flanged Magnum - not yet weighed!



I'll have to remember to weigh the H&H and maybe report back. I would guess it weighs an amount similar to the Borovnik.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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pistolchamp
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Reged: 27/02/07
Posts: 19
Loc: Texas, USA
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: CptCurl]
      #74906 - 29/03/07 05:44 AM

Holy Cow Mickey, you're mean, only one double rifle??????????

Okay, I just joined the club... 375 H&H belted for me. Its no joke that its about the most popular caliber and it works, that's probably why its the most popular.

I have one in the Ruger #1H and an old Holland sidelock... pretty, made in 1931.


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: AzGuy]
      #74914 - 29/03/07 06:27 AM


Arizona

"This is starting to sound like a 375 fan club!"


No, just after Curl's comment, I had to post.

I did think long and hard but have had heaps of
fun with my 375 Bolt's and doubles and they will
"within reason" do everything on th eplanet +
you have 235 - 350 grain bullets available
which again covers everything.


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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: 500Nitro]
      #74932 - 29/03/07 09:17 AM

If I could have only one rifle, of any kind, it would be a 375 H&H bolt/single shot, or a 375FL Magnum in a double rifle! ONE rifle for the planet!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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470evans
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Reged: 30/03/05
Posts: 278
Loc: Texas, USA
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #74936 - 29/03/07 10:21 AM

Here is a nice looking 375 rimless for those that like them.

http://www.hallowellco.com/hambrusch%20BLE%20375.htm


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AzGuy
.333 member


Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 388
Loc: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: 470evans]
      #74953 - 29/03/07 02:02 PM

According to the Hallowell website, that particular rifle is NOT a 375 Flanged but a belted magnum. Plus it has been "magnaported"......how sad.

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BigFiveJack
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Reged: 25/12/05
Posts: 256
Loc: Half hour North of Tampa Bay F...
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: AzGuy]
      #74957 - 29/03/07 03:06 PM

Quote:

According to the Hallowell website, that particular rifle is NOT a 375 Flanged but a belted magnum. Plus it has been "magnaported"......how sad.




Thirteen inch LOP, very SHORT too!

--------------------
Cordially,
Jack

NRA Endowment Member
DRSS Member


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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: BigFiveJack]
      #74976 - 29/03/07 11:48 PM

Only one double is not a good thing, but I would choose the 500 nitro 3 1/4" round. Big enough for anything.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad


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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: bigdog]
      #75004 - 30/03/07 06:19 AM

I have used 3 doubles quite a bit.
A 450 No2, a 450/400 3 1/4" both British and a scoped 9,3x74R.

I like them all, and in truth would not like to be without all 3.

My 450 No2 is my favorite rifle of all time.

The 9,3 Chapuis is one of ther best hunting rifles on the planet, under 40 cal.

I recently had my 450/400 scoped with a 1.1-4 S&B in claw mounts.
The 450/400 cartridge may be the best for the modern sport hunter.

IF, I could only have one double the scoped 450/400 3 1/4" would be my choice.

With 300gr Hawks for small stuff, and 400 gr Woodleigh Softs and Solids for everything else, it can do the job.

I have killed deer, pigs, 2 caribou, black bear, baboon, warthog, cape buff, bull elephant, and lion with it.

But I sure would miss the other 2.


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DM
.300 member


Reged: 12/02/07
Posts: 107
Loc: mid west USA
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: NE450No2]
      #75020 - 30/03/07 09:35 AM

If i stayed in NA, the 9.3x74R would do nicely... If i only hunted here in the lower 48 states and could get a DR that weighed no more than 7 pounds, the 7x65R would be all i'd ever need.

DM


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nitro476
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: DM]
      #76561 - 15/04/07 05:41 AM

My 476 Westley Richards or an old Rigby 470 with 28" barrels. Both were incredibly accurate!

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: mickey]
      #76567 - 15/04/07 06:28 AM

Maybe not as versatile as the 375 flanged but versatile in its own right, a 12 bore magnum paradox or a super magnum explora. The quest for a paradox is what began my interest in doubles.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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dnovo
.333 member


Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Re: Favourite Caliber [Re: nitro476]
      #76573 - 15/04/07 09:23 AM

Ah, another 476 WR owner! If I had to keep just one of my doubles (and I'd rather cut off an arm rather than get rid of any of them) it would be my 1907 WR Droplock (sorry, more properly, 'detachable locks.') The 476 shots wonderfully, has all the 'omph' you'd need to put down anything short of an enraged Abrahms tank, and ammo is now readily available from WR here in the US and, I presume, from the company in England. (It is loaded by Wolfgang Romey, I understand, sorry for the spelling.) Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels


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dnovo
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Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Re: Hambrusch 375 H&H [Re: BigFiveJack]
      #76577 - 15/04/07 09:43 AM

"According to the Hallowell website, that particular rifle is NOT a 375 Flanged but a belted magnum. Plus it has been "magnaported"......how sad. Thirteen inch LOP, very SHORT too!"

Yes, not an issue, and not for the right person.

The rifle in question is no longer at Morris' site, it is in my gunroom. And there is a 'why' to all of the issues raised in the responses.

The 375 H&H is a much easier to locate (and much less expensive to shot) cartridge than its slightly less powerful Flanged brother. Less 'traditional?' Perhaps, although I would venture to say that for every 375 Flanged double, there are 15 chambered in the belted, rimless H&H (and in the same ratio from the birthplace of both rounds, Holland & Holland.) And, the 375 H&H is not the ultra high pressure, abrupt recoil load that the more modern powerhouses such as the 375 Ultamag or my least favorite, nastiest recoiling cartridge on the planet, the 'shot it once, three rounds were enough to send me off to a friend's 600 NE to relax' 378 Weatherby. The 375 H&H is a pleasure to shoot even without porting.

But why port this one? The rifle was built for a woman to shoot, and given its dimensions, a slight woman at that. The name 'Sue' on the trigger guard is a dead give away. That is one reason I bought it, my 5'2" 90 pound wife finds the porting works for her and the LOP is great for her as well. And the porting is done as discreetly as can be. Uses a series of small holes, very tiny and hard to spot unless you are looking for them.

The 'upside' of this rifle is the incredible condition, the wonderful fit and finish, engraving, accuracy (it shoots very well) and the fact that, with the fitted case -- which is built like a bank vault itself-- and the features, it was a steal.

Now, when she lets me shot it, a slip on pad 'cures' the LOP issue for me.

Horses for courses and rifles for specific types of shooters. This rifle was built for a specific purpose and fits the bill admirably. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Hambrusch 375 H&H [Re: dnovo]
      #76596 - 15/04/07 05:09 PM

dnovo

That is a fine looking rifle you have purchased. And what a lucky wife you have to be given such a nice .375 double.

You can see from the description and the photos that the rifle was made with personal specifications for the original buyer. For example the single trigger is a little unusual from that maker.

I like it and if it balances well and is a light rifle it must be very use to use - when you add the "slip on pad".

Now is your wife's name "Sue" as well?

PS I think I am going to add that rifle to the "archive" forum with your desription as well if you don't mind.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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dnovo
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Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Re: Hambrusch 375 H&H [Re: NitroX]
      #76621 - 16/04/07 03:31 AM

No, her name isn't Sue, although that would have made the purchase mandatory. Just brought it back from the range with her this morning. Nice day her is Cheeseland. She only needed a handful of rounds to get it sighted in perfectly. I then traded off with her and shot the Hambrusch while she shot my Hoenig Rotary in 9.3X74R. She liked her rifle better, I like the Hoenig better, as the two cartridges perform about the same. The porting on the Hambrusch, IMHO doesn't so much impact on recoil as on muzzle flip, which she appreciates handling a stout rifle for a small lady. On the other hand, my Hoening defines tack driver in a double, and the action is butter smooth, so I am biased in favor of that rifle. But arent' we all biased in favor of something, so hardly a scientific comparsion. Dave (P.S. Use the photos as you wish.)

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

Edited by dnovo (16/04/07 03:32 AM)


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
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Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Hambrusch 375 H&H [Re: dnovo]
      #76622 - 16/04/07 04:13 AM


dnovo

Regarding your comment
"although I would venture to say that for every 375 Flanged double, there are 15 chambered in the belted, rimless H&H (and in the same ratio from the birthplace of both rounds, Holland & Holland.) "

Where did you get these figures from ?
Especially the "and in the same ratio from the birthplace of both rounds, Holland & Holland.)"

If the 2nd hand market of Doubles is anything to go by, I am not so sure that that many DR's have been made in 375H&H (ie NOT Flanged).

And I am not counting modern DR's like Chauis, Merkel etc
in the numbers - keep it old and English !!!


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dnovo
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Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin
Re: Hambrusch 375 H&H [Re: 500Nitro]
      #76650 - 16/04/07 11:23 AM

No, you are correct, if we keep it 'old and English.' The belted rimless cartridge emerged (in DRs not bolt actions) as a choice only after WWI and then most strongly after WWII in doubles. This was especially so when many of the older Nitro cartridges became hard to get and the 375 H&H was easy to obtain. (This is about the same time you begin to see DRs in calibers such as 300 H&H, 300 WinMag and (although I have never fathomed this) the 458 Win Mag.

I got my figures on H&H from their London location when I went there to drool over a DR one of my British counterparts who was picking, up a new double in 375 H&H from the mothership. I asked them how many 375 Flanged they had made recently and came up with my numbers from that source. The lack of readily available ammunition and the fact that you can find the belted rimless anywhere seems to be the deciding factor. Apparently, since the mid-war period and through today, the belted rimless does outsell the flanged version by the factor I noted.

I do keep my eye on both types of DRs, SXS and O/U and get some of my thoughts from that source. The latter seem to come primarily from German and Austrian makers, and the number of 20s and 30s O/Us in 375 H&H predominate, and from the later 40s on, if it is a 375 in an O/U it is almost always the H&H rather than the flanged version. (Come to think of it, I can't recall seeing an O/U in a 375 Flanged, but I do recall a WR Ovundo in a 375 H&H.) If you do not restrict yourself to 'old and British', you will see most post 1950 DRs that are chambered in 375 in the belted iteration and virtually nada in the Flanged.

Of course, most Continental O/Us and even SXS for this type of usage would not be in any 375, the 9.3X74R filling the niche of the less-often seen 375 Flanged very nicely. Given the ready availability of the excellent 9.3X74R and the lower prices of the number of post 1950 through modern guns you can buy 'off the shelf' today, the equally-elderly German developed 9.3 is by far the dominant cartridge in today's double market.

(And, not too shabby a choice at that. I love my Hoeing Rotary, and George's choice of the 9.3X74R as the largest round he chambers this unique and special DR for was not just based on his German heritage, this is one fine choice and loaded by Norma, Lapua, etc, it is consistent and accurate.)

But if you have a nice, 1910-1930's vintage gathering dust down there, and want to get it out of your hair, I wouldn't say no. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

Edited by dnovo (16/04/07 11:25 AM)


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