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reddy375
.224 member


Reged: 31/01/07
Posts: 42
Loc: NY, USA
Big Elephants in the Park Areas?????
      #70609 - 01/02/07 09:49 AM

I booked a ele hunt in an area that borders Hwange Park. From what I understand the plan is to try and find a decent bull that comes out of the Park! In this case it would be during the dry period and I imagine they leave the park looking for water.

Am I right in assuming that there are elephants in Hwange park that may never have left the park, so grow big tusks over the years. So if I spent 15 days driving inside Hwange park can one expect to see BIG eles?

Is this also the case with other African Parks like Kruger, Etosha. etc. I guess the same Q applies to other species as well!!!!

Reddy375

--------------------
Arjun Reddy
www.huntersnetworks.com
30 Ivy Hill Road
Brewster, NY 10509
Tel: 845 259 3628
Email:arjun@huntersnetworks.com

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JPK
.375 member


Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: Big Elephants in the Park Areas????? [Re: reddy375]
      #70610 - 01/02/07 10:06 AM

I understand that there are big elephants in some of the areas surrounding some of the Hwange Park. I also understand that the timing is important with the dry season, just before it rains, being the best time. I've been told if it rains early it can be trouble.

Also, not a lot of walking with the Hwange border hunts.

This info was from a couple of different Zim elephant PH's.

I think it more or less the same for all parks, depending on their water supply. Hwange's water supply was good now is erratic because of a failure to properly maintain pumps.

Hope this helps.

Who are you hunting with?

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butchloc
.300 member


Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 230
Loc: faribault mn
Re: Big Elephants in the Park Areas????? [Re: JPK]
      #70652 - 02/02/07 08:14 AM

not really - normally the eles in hwange are very big bodied, but not that big on ivory. The biggest guys come on the border w/botswana. Actually the bigger eles come from the other end of the country near ghonarezhou. the bodies are smaller but they commonly have larger teeth. tricky hunt with the best time of year being around march-early april. A bit more care in that area is taken because the eles have the rep. of being a bit cheeky - a deserved rep.

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reddy375
.224 member


Reged: 31/01/07
Posts: 42
Loc: NY, USA
Re: Big Elephants in the Park Areas????? [Re: butchloc]
      #70659 - 02/02/07 10:08 AM

I am hunting with Mark Butcher's outfit. I believe the PH is going to be Scott Bailey (anyone hunted with him?). A good friend has shot 2 eles there in the last 3 years. First one was 58/62 and the other one was around 55 aside, they thought it was going to be much bigger as it had v. long tusks, which are uncommon for that area. But the tusks were thin and big nerves!

--------------------
Arjun Reddy
www.huntersnetworks.com
30 Ivy Hill Road
Brewster, NY 10509
Tel: 845 259 3628
Email:arjun@huntersnetworks.com

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ozhunter
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Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: Big Elephants in the Park Areas????? [Re: reddy375]
      #70666 - 02/02/07 11:47 AM

I think you will be hunting the Tshotsho area to the south east of the park which is well known for producing big Ele, often shot on first or last light as they move to or from the park.
A fellow on the AR forum sight had a story about a hunt with Scott Bailey and had NO good things to say about him .
OZHUNTER

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39330
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Re: Big Elephants in the Park Areas????? [Re: ozhunter]
      #70673 - 02/02/07 01:05 PM

Who is the outfitter?

The Tshoshotso area is indeed known for big elephant.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Re: Big Elephants in the Park Areas????? [Re: butchloc]
      #70681 - 02/02/07 01:48 PM

Interesting info--

What areas in Africa have the reputation for the most aggressive dangerous Ele?
Why do folks feel that Ele get more aggressive? More hunting pressure? More culling??

I have a friend that will hunt the Caprivi Strip in Namibia and another one considering the ?Chewore area in Zim.

Any thoughts?

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: Big Elephants in the Park Areas????? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #70687 - 02/02/07 02:32 PM

Ghonarezhue and he Save Conservancy have reputations for very aggresive elephants.

The Zambezi Vallet too, for the tuskless.

My experience is that Zambezi Valley elephants aren't generally agressive, though some cows can be. Chewore is in the Zambezi Valley. I have elephant hunted twice in Chewore South and had only a couple of run ins.

I have not hunted near Gonarezhou but the elephant in the Save are really agressive and nasty. The photo series I posted about a charge was in the Save. The elephants in the Save are from the same gene pool as Gonarezhou. Some think the agressiveness is from poaching during the bush war.I'm not sold on that idea. Too many agressive elephants for a direct connection. Maybe the first generation elephants became agressive because of the poaching, but later generations learned it?

I have hunted elephants in Chete and found them more or less the same as Chewore. And I've hunted the Omay and found them similar too.

Yuo need to be on your toes in the thick riverine bush in the Save.

JPK

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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: Big Elephants in the Park Areas????? [Re: JPK]
      #70694 - 02/02/07 07:36 PM

Here is the thread on AR, although to be fair "465 H&H" also hunted tuskless with him and thought he was a good PH.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6321043/m/461106673?r=362106673#362106673

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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
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Re: Big Elephants in the Park Areas????? [Re: bulldog563]
      #70695 - 02/02/07 07:44 PM

If ozhunter is reffering to the same area I am thinking of (maybe spelled something like Tsholotsho), it is divided into North and South with the South producing better Ivory. I have heard from a couple different Zim PH's that the hunt is mainly driving 90 KM up the border of the park. Having lunch. And then driving 90Km back. They do apparently shoot some impressive bull's there though and if that is what you are after then have at it. Just be sure that is what you want. I heard (I think on AR) a client last season shot a 90 pounder there.

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Edited by bulldog563 (02/02/07 07:50 PM)

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ozhunter
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Reged: 18/08/04
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Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: Big Elephants in the Park Areas????? [Re: bulldog563]
      #70696 - 02/02/07 09:06 PM

My understanding of the Tsholosho land is that it runs south of the Gwai, west of Bulawayo, north of Botswana and east of Wankie Nat Park. A big chunk of real estate but its obvious the big Elephant are from the park.
I think the name is pronounced Cho- lo- sho.
ozhunter

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EricD
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Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Big Elephants in the Park Areas????? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #70708 - 03/02/07 05:06 AM

Quote:

Interesting info--

What areas in Africa have the reputation for the most aggressive dangerous Ele?
Why do folks feel that Ele get more aggressive? More hunting pressure? More culling??

I have a friend that will hunt the Caprivi Strip in Namibia and another one considering the ?Chewore area in Zim.

Any thoughts?



Besides the areas mentioned above by others, I'd also add Moremi in Botswana, and the elephant found in northwestern Uganda. At least in my experiance. The former hasn't had much poaching to my knowledge, so I'd think it perhaps has to do with genetics in that area. The latter has had a lot of poaching in recent history (During Idi Amins reign) so it's not unlikely that the aggressive behavour found there could be a mix of reasons. The majority of aggressive ones that I've encountered in various African countries have been cows (even without calves), and especially tuskless cows.

Erik

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zimhunter
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Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Big Elephants in the Park Areas????? [Re: EricD]
      #70732 - 03/02/07 01:26 PM

Have hunted and travelled extensively in and around Hwange Park and while I have seen LOTS of elephants I have never seen any really BIG ivory. I took one near Hwange at the Vic Falls end but it actually came out of the Fuller Forest area. It was 47lbs one side 43 other. They are rather short but have really nice diameter. I would post a picture but really don't know how to do it on this forum. Have seen lots of Elephant around the Gwayii area but the only one I shot there was a female and one tusk was broken off about one foot from the lip. Both these Elephants were BIG bodied however. Don't think you will have a problem finding an elephant but it might be hard to find a heavy one. I took the first good one to come along in both cases. Might have been able to get a larger one but also might have gotten nothing.

Edited by zimhunter (03/02/07 01:28 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39330
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Big Elephants in the Park Areas????? [Re: zimhunter]
      #70734 - 03/02/07 01:58 PM

Quote:

Have hunted and travelled extensively in and around Hwange Park and while I have seen LOTS of elephants I have never seen any really BIG ivory.



Actually neither have I, but I have seen great photos of very heavy (for these days) tusks. Most of the routes and tourist routes in Hwange are all in the North of the park.

But you are very right, I think these heavy tuskers are not as common and while they occur are not the normal ones else they would not win the tusker of the year awards.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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butchloc
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Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 230
Loc: faribault mn
Re: Big Elephants in the Park Areas????? [Re: NitroX]
      #70876 - 06/02/07 07:22 AM

i don't know why the eles from ghona have such bad attitudes, a PH was kill there last year by a cow that just came from nowhere and stomped him. Same thing happen to a tracker, couple years ago i shot a bull there that as soon as he saw us, just dropped head and came on. that area has been known for bad tempered tuskers for a long time, anyone familiar with ron thompsons book will remember that he had several episodes in the park, that being many moons ago. the advantages of hunting there is that the eles come out to raid the gardens and essentially they come to you instead of you going to them & for a guy with knees like mine, not walking 20 miles a day is a big big advantage. At the time i was hunting with jumbo moore and that bull went 55#'s shortly thereafter a guy went and got a 82# and the year before there was another 80+ shot. all with jumbo on his communal land access. Good area in the spring, but because of the area it is a hit or miss thing.

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