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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game

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gryphon
.450 member

Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...

dogs on game
#7045 - 17/01/04 04:13 PM

Not so much using them on unwounded but wounded/hit game in tracking mainly, i have been giving it some thought especially after watching the excellent video Nitro sent me on Saeed`s buff hunting etc.
During one hunt a bull was wounded and he and his Pro were following up huge blood splashes in long grass and came to the bull which gave a good shake (though not a dangerous movement) and had them all jump with much hasty shouldering of arms but all ended well,why? i`m asking are dogs not used for this purpose as a good dog will outtrack any person and are worth their weight in gold,a dog can be up and with a wounded animal in minutes/seconds etc and be barking right on the animal thus giving an exact location especially in heavy cover/long grasss etc
It wont matter to a good dog what he is on wether it is on a boar, a scrub bull, a cape buff, a tiger even (J Corbetts Robin) read about Jock of the bushveld`s exploits etc he/she will tell you a mile in advance as to whats ahead and as far as tracking/bailing /barking on wounded game they are impossible to beat compared to us lowly humans with their far superior senses........why hasnt every safari camp got a pro hunters dog in it? is it illegal?
I do know that leopards love them but dogs under control in long grass following up wounded buff would be so good,maybe even a pair of scrub bull catching dogs from North Queensland would be the ones for the job.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39897
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: dogs on game [Re: gryphon]
#7060 - 18/01/04 02:42 PM

Gryphon

When you brought that idea up on a PM, i thought it really is so obviously a good idea.

I wonder why more tracking dogs are not used in Africa too.

Pierre van Wyk had some GSPs at his farm, but I think they were mostly used for bird hunting.

The PH holding the rights to the farm where I hunted bushbuck had dogs. When I wounded my bushbuck it was mentioned if it got too much darker we could call Jan on the mobile or radio and get him to come over with his dogs. I don't know what breed these were and what they were generally used for - perhaps BIGFIVE might know if it reads this.

Tracking hounds are often used for hound leopard hunts. I just watched a video the other day of a leopard hunt like this.

But youre right, why doesn't every PH have a tracking hound to help out?? Anyone who knows?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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shakari
.400 member

Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa

Re: dogs on game [Re: NitroX]
#7067 - 18/01/04 05:18 PM

I have a couple of guy who sometimes work with me who have dogs for tracking, and they're very effective. One of the problems though is that dogs have so many enemies in the bush. Lions, Leopards, baboons, snakes, honeybadgers etc can all kill dogs. Also a lot of landowners are very chary of letting any dog onto their land in case they decide to go on a killing spree themselves......Then of course, there's the rabies thing.

In some areas such as the Selous they even ban then by law.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com

Edited by shakari (18/01/04 05:20 PM)

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gryphon
.450 member

Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...

Re: dogs on game [Re: shakari]
#7079 - 19/01/04 07:21 AM

It might seem like bullshit to some but there is probably not a single buff bull (on lonesome) that couldnt be stopped by a pair of pro bull catchers working on scrub bulls up north of here,these dogs simply get into them by hanging on to the hocks and making the animal pull up and bail,mad and tenacious with no fear from long lines of bull catchers they would definately stop wounded buff,but even the smaller barking type dogs following up blood trails would be so good at finding game in the bush,my old bitch would find any dead deer that had got into heavy cover any time especially any that had travelled a bit and then bark on the body bringing me up to my animal in mere minutes, a different bark for a wounded bailed animal means a different approach of course so as to not alert the animal to your presence which can make them break again and good dogs will soon work out what you as captain will want,i swear some dogs almost have an ability to read their owners mind at times with some of the actions i have observed hunting.Any of the old timers in Africa often had dogs with them,i cant remember the name but i read a book of the Scottish gent in Africa that had a huge pack of dogs that caught and bailed just about everything on offer,pehaps you might know Nitro of the book,damn i wish i could remember the title.Anybody read about Jock either?

Shakari with respect what sort of dog can be killed by a ratel? Surely even with their rep as a bad arsed little bugger it seems that a good old boar dog wouldnt be bothered much by one at all.......hell my mates soft mouthed old English setter kills tassie devils without batting an eyelid..now i`m not saying that a TD is on a par with a ratel but neither is an E Settter with a boar dog........ more info required, even though the show breeders have bred the guts out of Rhodesian ridgebacks i reckon one from the old days would handle a ratel as well......over to you mate.

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Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39897
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: dogs on game [Re: gryphon]
#7086 - 19/01/04 09:57 AM

A factor that makes the use of dogs even easier in Africa is the cost of labour.

It is much cheaper to have a man to look after dogs, at the camps, and also when out hunting. Allowing the dogs to be called upon when needed.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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mickey
.416 member

Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho

Re: dogs on game [Re: NitroX]
#7094 - 19/01/04 12:22 PM

In reply to:

Poster: NitroX
Subject: Re: dogs on game

A factor that makes the use of dogs even easier in Africa is the cost of labour.

It is much cheaper to have a man to look after dogs, at the camps, and also when out hunting. Allowing the dogs to be called upon when needed.

It is much cheaper to have a man look after the wounded game and to skip the Dog.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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shakari
.400 member

Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa

Re: dogs on game [Re: gryphon]
#7136 - 20/01/04 05:59 AM

Hi Gryphon,

Dogs do get killed by honeybadgers. Not only do they have to teeth, claws & temper to seriously injure a dog, but they have such a long coat on then that a dog can't get a good grip to do any damage in return....... although I guess they would struggle with something the size of a Rhodesian Ridgeback....... I don't really know the size of a Tazzie Devil, but a honeybadger is pretty big and bloody powerful. At least I wouldn't like to have one chewing on any part of me!!!.........especially the bits they like to chew on!

As much as I'd like to, I've never hunted Oz, so I know even less about your hunting dogs than I know about your game. I'm a bloody fool really as I used to have an uncle in Queensland who owned a big farm up there. He used to tell me that I had an open invitation to go and hunt there and I never got round to it!......... too late now. We buried him a few years ago......... had to really. Dead you know.............

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com

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gryphon
.450 member

Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...

Re: dogs on game [Re: shakari]
#7140 - 20/01/04 07:11 AM

Our mate even has his own website,i did watch a great hour on them on cable last year and i do realise how tough/tenacious they are with the rep for going for the niagra`s in a fight too ......ouch

http://www.honeybadger.com/

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Bakes
.375 member

Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD

Re: dogs on game [Re: gryphon]
#7157 - 20/01/04 04:53 PM

Gryph
I spoke to our vet (the flying vet from the ABC show) about the ridgeback, he's married to a lass from Zimbabwe and spent some time over there on her folks farm. He said that the ridgeback was still used to hunt with over there mainly on cattle killing leopards. Pete said that three ridgebacks would go in on a leopard and tear it to pieces BUT only one dog would come out alive. And that one would have some bad injurys. Tough dogs I reckon.

I was looking at showing my ridgeback when he was young. I went to some shows and walked past all the pampered poochers to the ridgeback folks, who were all together, under a tarp drinking beer, with dogs staked out. Most of the dogs carried scares from pig hunts. There is a guy up your way that register's his litters with the AKC but doesn't show them, they are all hunting dogs.

Re the dogs on game, perhaps its because the clients want the traditional hunt that they've read about, ie black trackers following the spoor through the bush? A dog would be just as effective, if not more so, but its not seen as traditional.

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Boghossian
.275 member

Reged: 23/01/04
Posts: 93

Re: dogs on game [Re: Bakes]
#7283 - 23/01/04 03:07 AM

Hi,
Can I ask what breed is used to catch wild bulls in Australia? I knew that scrub bulls were shot, but what exactly happens after the dogs get ahold of the hocks??

Lastly, I believe jack russel terriers are used in some south african ranches to trail wounded game. But the PHs aren't raised hunting with dogs, and when a kudu is hit 10km from camp at dusk, it is a little late to think about using a dog.

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gryphon
.450 member

Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...

Re: dogs on game [Re: Boghossian]
#7289 - 23/01/04 06:27 AM

A rough standard is the english bull terrier x australian blue heeler,and a good pair of dogs will stop a bull no matter how much fight he has in him,a bull gets a bit sick of a dog hanging off his nose too after a while even though he might have given that dog a good rubbing they generally stick like shit to a blanket.After that get your rope on the bull and do what you like to him.

"when a kudu is hit 10km from camp at dusk, it is a little late to think about using a dog."

Thats exactly when the dog comes into his own,a native tracker cant see too well in the twilight/dark of course whereas a dog can "see" through his nose as well,a dog is unbeatable as a tracker and if a steady dog is along for the hunt to be called apon at any time your results surely go up,dosent matter if its a quail or kudu a dog will find better than any of us.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Boghossian
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Reged: 23/01/04
Posts: 93

Re: dogs on game [Re: gryphon]
#7317 - 24/01/04 01:05 AM

Hi,
I agree completely gryphon, but was explaining that most PHs don't want a dog trailing them on the whole hunt for fear of spooking game. This could be prevented by training it to walk behind the last member of the hunting party, or (in the case of a terrier) held by a tracker.
I have seen pictures of EU hunters putting terriers in their backpack, with just the head/shoulders sticking out (I don't know what the African heat would do though)

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