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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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Ron_Vella
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Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours!
      #69475 - 15/01/07 02:25 AM

Last Sunday I finally had everything jigged up and ready to go. Fired up the torches and soldered everything together with Hi-Force. Spent each evening last week scraping and stoning all of the surplus solder away. Yesterday I set the gun up in my proofing cradle and put 3 "blue pills" down each barrel. No sign of any problems whatsoever. Then fired 3 rights and 3 lefts, off-hand, with the iron sights, at 25 yards. It was very cold and windy, not really conducive to careful shooting, but each barrel grouped into about 1 1/2", about 6" apart, and on exactly the same vertical plane. Should be a snap now to pull the wedge forward, allowing the muzzles to converge more, and bring the barrel groups together. Another grain of powder, and an additional 50 fps should help with convergence as well. After about 1000 hours of labour, and about $3000 invested in this project, I feel as if I won the lottery yesterday !!! Also, the gun is an absolute pussycat to shoot. 500 grain Hornadys, at 2100 fps, were as comfortable as can be to shoot.

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sakmyk
.224 member


Reged: 10/10/06
Posts: 45
Loc: Western Finland
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #69484 - 15/01/07 05:50 AM

Hi Ron,

nice to see you here.

We've discussed many, many years ago, back in those days when the Internet was young...

You had then just completed your 12gauge for which you used Hastings rifled blanks. I recall it shot Lightfields... After that I ordered some tubes from Hastings for my friend, and got one 12gauge single barrel made for me.

You sent me also a letter and some copies on A. Gray's book - Bought the book soon after that, and I still have the letter, too. Actually, I read the letter just a couple of weeks ago as I tried to get my documents on DR's in order -- Still a terrible mess, though...

Congratulations on your current achievements.

Please post some photos!

Regards,
Saku

Edited by sakmyk (15/01/07 08:23 AM)

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: sakmyk]
      #69487 - 15/01/07 07:46 AM


Good for you Ron!


Show us some photos of your rifle.


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #69497 - 15/01/07 12:08 PM

Quote:

After about 1000 hours of labour,



Holy batwings!! That is a daunting project. They figure about that much time to make a best quality English gun, plus engraving on top of that.

When you say 'blue pills' do you mean Barnes solids?

Any chance of pics?

Thanks for the report!

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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: 500grains]
      #69502 - 15/01/07 12:31 PM

Saku, Good to hear from you again. You have a good memory, that 12 gauge rifle was my first double project and is still my sweetheart. I've taken 8 whitetails with it so far and those Lightfields are stunning killers. I do have a bunch of pics of this project but no idea how to post them here. I'll have to get my son-in-law, the computer wizard, to come over here and do that for me.

400,
Yes it's a lot of hours but also a labour of love. By "blue pills" I mean some very hot proof loads which I made up. I'm using the old style, now discontinued, Hornady 500 grain softs and solids. I bought up several lifetimes worth of them on e-bay.

Edited by ronvella (15/01/07 12:37 PM)

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #69518 - 15/01/07 07:15 PM

Ron

If you can email them to NitroX he can post the pictures for you.

Photos AT NitroExpress.com

Any explanation can be sent or added later.


(Ugg! I was wondering why I was receiving so much SPAM at that email address and see now it was posted in the proper form on open forums!!! (now changed) Note someone needs to be PM or email my normal address that photos are being sent! As I don't check it unless I need to. NitroX)

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

Edited by NitroX (13/02/07 12:19 AM)

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5271
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #69527 - 15/01/07 11:50 PM

We will anxiously await photos of this project. Maybe a narrative to go along?

Very interesting.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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sakmyk
.224 member


Reged: 10/10/06
Posts: 45
Loc: Western Finland
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #69566 - 16/01/07 10:50 AM

Ron,

sounds like your 12 bore slug double does exacly what it is supposed to. I also shot a whitetail earlier tonight. Not much worth mentioning in that... just harvesting some meat for the family. It was a button buck standing in 25 meters, and I shot it from a hide. Well, actually, there were two notable things.

For the first time I used my suppressed .45-70 singleshot with subsonic ammo (520gr RN cast lead bullet, 315 m/s or 1033 fps). It was the cleanest hole through a deer that I have ever seen. Clear lungshot and the buck ran some 70 meters.

Blood in the first tracks told me that it's not far, so I fetched our young terrier from the house and we "tracked" those few tens of meters. The bitch was SOOOOO proud as she found her first deer

What action did you use on building this .450 #2 double?

Regards,
Saku

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Ron_Vella
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Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: sakmyk]
      #69571 - 16/01/07 12:19 PM

Saku,
I started with 2 BRNO ZP-49's because I wanted to end up with one gun with a set of rifle and a set of shotgun barrels fitted to the same action.

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #69618 - 17/01/07 01:01 AM

Two-in-one SxS doubles on shotgun actions...
Man, that's dedication!

Welcome back, Ron. Hope you brought the photo-album!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: Marrakai]
      #69620 - 17/01/07 01:54 AM

Hi Tony,
Thanks for the welcome. I'd also like to thank you for preaching often about not making the barrels too heavy lest you lose that "between the hands balance and quickness" that a double rifle should have. I thought long and hard about that and since my other projects ended up more muzzle heavy than I would have liked, I turned these barrels MUCH smaller in diameter than instinct told me to do. Rather than .750" at the muzzles, they are .670". The result is that this gun feels ALIVE in the hands. Unloaded, no sling, and no scope, it weighs 9 lbs 11 1/2 oz, but it is a joy to shoot. Good on ya mate!

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #69630 - 17/01/07 03:31 AM

Now I know why you were digging around everywhere for 450no2 barrel contours.

Did this end up being a straight-out profile copy of another rifle's tubes?



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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sakmyk
.224 member


Reged: 10/10/06
Posts: 45
Loc: Western Finland
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #69631 - 17/01/07 03:33 AM

Ron,

good to hear that ZP-49 works in these conversions. I've always been attracted by its smooth but still somewhat barren looks. At least those guns imported here in Finland are almost always without any engraving or other decoration.

I truly enjoy all fancy doubles, but for some strange reason I've always been fascinated by dominion grade Holland & Hollands and other PH grade doubles... Tools for professionals, literally.

I've many times thought about purchasing a ZP-49 for my future projects. Second hand BRNOs are all the time available here and they're also fairly cheap. However, I have hesitated since my friend has one, and he managed to shoot it loose within a few years. Almost all of his shooting was on game - he shot clays only occasionally. He also exclusively used regular loads and not any kind of semi- or mini-magnums. One local "gunsmith" then hammered the bites tight again. I was pissed with that kind of work, but hey, it's cheap & fast.

It was definitely less than thousand rounds that put the gun into that condition. I've thought it a lot, and I reckon there was something wrong in that individual gun.

Regarding pics on your double, I'll echo those guys above.

Regards,
Saku

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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: sakmyk]
      #69634 - 17/01/07 03:58 AM

Saku,
I agree, the gun has the looks of what Americans insist on calling "Funeral Model Purdeys", although Purdey never made any such model. That stark black receiver looks much more fitting as a heavy rifle than using a shotgun action that is engraved with pointing dogs and birds! I own 3 BRNO's, have shot them a lot and see no sign of looseness whatsoever.

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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #70856 - 06/02/07 03:19 AM

As info, and so that some do not think that I reneged on a promise, I have tried several times over the last two weeks to e-mail my photos of this project to Nitrox. However, each time that I try, I get a message saying that the file is undeliverable because Nitrox's mailbox is full. I'm far from being a computer wizard and don't know what else to try.

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stoerte
.224 member


Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 7
Loc: Germany
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #70862 - 06/02/07 04:51 AM

Ron,

The easiest way to post photos would be to create an account(free) on a website that stores photos on the net, eg http://www.twango.com/

Now, step by step: (instructions for twango.com, but others work similar)

1. you have to be logged on
2. upload your media: click the upload tab left of the search field
3. select your photos you want to upload, 5 at a time
4. when you finished uploading go to home > my media, you will see your photos there
5. click on the first one, click on it again
6. copy the image adress, referred to as permalink in the grey area under the back arrow
7. paste the link into your message like this [image]completelink[/image] ( replace "completelink" with the copied adress)
8. repeat step 5-7 for each image

Hope this helps,
I am dying to see the photos!

Stoerte

--------------------
It is possible to kill an ele with a 6.5 Mannlicher, but I don't want to discover that I don't belong to those who can!

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Double_Trouble
.375 member


Reged: 27/04/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #70864 - 06/02/07 05:12 AM

Ron:
chances are that you are sending too much at once to Nitrox's address.

I am far from a computer guru, but you may want to try splitting up the message you are trying to send into 2 or 3 different and seperate messages.

just a thought from an electronically challenged fellow member.

DT

--------------------
Double Trouble,
Speak not of what you do not know.
Listen up when it's time to.

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: stoerte]
      #70867 - 06/02/07 05:15 AM

Ron

Are you sending them here?

Photos AT NitroExpress.com

A photo hosting is best but this should get them to John.


(See above comment regarding email address!
PS Had no idea the photos were being sent.
NitroX


--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

Edited by NitroX (13/02/07 12:21 AM)

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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: mickey]
      #70868 - 06/02/07 05:22 AM

Yes, that's the address that I've been using, Mick. I'll try one more time when I get home tonight.

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banzaibird
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Reged: 18/09/05
Posts: 358
Loc: S.C. Pennsylvania, USA
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #71104 - 10/02/07 12:07 AM

Posting Pics for Ron.

1) My workshop, AKA the "Sanctum Sanctorum"

2) Rifle barrels, screwed and soldered into the monoblock. Top rib and sights set in place.

3) Close-up view of quarter rib with Weaver bases screwed and welded into place. Rear sight is a NECG from Brownell's, and has been rough-filed for elevation.

4) Hi-Viz front sight and NECG window hood from Brownells. Top rib is from Crown Press but I have modified it a great deal.

5) You can just make out the seam here between the rifle barrels and the monoblock.

6) Bottom view of rifle barrels with bottom rib from Crown Press screwed into place and sling swivel base installed. I like to screw the ribs into the barrel spacers, as well as soldering them. This takes some of the load off of the solder joints when you're carrying a heavy rifle on a sling. It also ensures that the rib is not going to let go and leave you stranded in the middle of Africa.

7) The rifle barrels on the action with the fitted shotgun barrels below. Note that both sets of barrels have their own forearm assembly and all pieces are now serial-numbered alike.

8) A second view of the same.

9) Close-up view of Leupold Vari-X III, 1.5x-5x, clamped onto Weawer bases with Leupold QRW rings.

10) Over-all view of the same.

11) Looking down the iron sights.

12) This is the steel Weaver base stock from Brownells that I welded on to the rear of the top rib from Crown Press and milled as seen in photos.

13) View of barrels, spacers TIG-welded into position, muzzle wedge in place, and both ribs lying below.

14) Quarter rib with the front QD base removed from its mortise. I matted the quarter rib and the front ramp with a 50 LPI checkering file,

15, 16, & 17) close-up views of barrel spacers, welded into place.

15, 16, & 17) close-up views of barrel spacers, welded into place.

15, 16, & 17) close-up views of barrel spacers, welded into place.


Edited by CptCurl (29/12/08 01:17 PM)

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Ron_Vella
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Reged: 29/04/05
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Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! *DELETED* [Re: banzaibird]
      #71110 - 10/02/07 02:42 AM

Post deleted by ronvella

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banzaibird
.333 member


Reged: 18/09/05
Posts: 358
Loc: S.C. Pennsylvania, USA
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #71114 - 10/02/07 03:18 AM

Ron,

No problem on the pics.

Now I have a couple of questions. Are all the spacers all the way out to the muzzels welded? What technique did you use to weld them? Was it a specialty TIG weld? What happens if/when the barrels wear a bit from shooting and the rifle needs a regulation tweak? If the welding on the barrel doesn't concern you did you give any thought to welding the seam lines at the monoblock?

Also if you could explain why you chose the swivel gets screwed to the rib instead of making a barrel spacer swivel out of the same piece? Also if you could give the overall impression of the one piece rib you used? How much work was needed to fit your barrel profiles? Do you do anything to hide the screws in the ribs after soldering?

Please don't take this as you did anything wrong. I'm just asking questions for my own benefit. The more I see the way others do things the more it makes me examine how I do mine. That's why I asked for the reasoning behind what you did.

Overall looks great, thanks for the pics. Best thing is now you have another action to build another set of barrels for from scratch .

Bill

P.S.- The Weaver base also makes a decent quarter rib. Just keep the fins on the areas you want to use for the scope mounts than machine the rest off that it's the same width as the lower rib. Then machine the bottom of that to match your barrel contours. It gives a very sturdy one piece quarter rib.

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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: banzaibird]
      #71115 - 10/02/07 03:40 AM

Bill,
I have a local guy who does Micro-TIG, very delicate welding under magnification. If the rear spacers are welded you don't have to worry about them moving during the solder job. The wedge between the muzzles is just soldered with Hi-Force so the regulation can be tweaked at any time. I silver soldered a reinforcing bar to the backside of the bottom rib to accept the swivel mounting screws. A lot of smoking, filing and stoning to fit the top rib, it's never an easy job. And you're right, you can make a pretty nice quarter rib out of that Weaver stock by milling away all of the stuff that you don't need.

Edited by ronvella (10/02/07 01:55 PM)

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Bramble
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Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #71148 - 10/02/07 12:58 PM

Nice work!!

And your workshop is a hell of a sight tidier than mine.

Regards

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: The .450 #2 passes the test with flying colours! [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #71170 - 10/02/07 11:24 PM

Ron and Bramble,
Well done both of you!
A lot of work put into your double rifles for sure!
Ron, I like that one piece top rib, it looks neat!

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