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Hunting >> Hunting in Australia, NZ & the South Pacific

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Bakes
.375 member


Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
Croc hunting update.
      #6797 - 11/01/04 06:48 PM

Feds to ban croc safaris
By CAMDEN SMITH
11jan04
THE Federal Government is expected to stop the Territory legalising crocodile hunting safaris.

The Territory Government made the request in a five-yearly crocodile plan of management, which has been lodged with Federal Environment Minister David Kemp.

The idea was for 25 crocodiles over 4m to be shot by wealthy safari hunters every year.

It is estimated overseas hunters would pay up to $6000 to shoot a crocodile.

The NT Government believes the money would have provided income and employment for rural regions, particularly Aboriginal communities.

But the Government has received a letter from the Department of Environment and Heritage saying the Federal Government was against the safari hunting trial.

About 600 crocodiles are culled in the Territory every year.

But under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species, Territory crocodiles cannot be used in ``unsustainable trade'', which includes safari hunting.

Environment Minister Chris Burns said it was inconsistent of the Federal Government not to allow low-level safari hunting.

``There's already provision for the harvesting of 600 crocodiles a year in the Territory and our plan does not change existing quotas,'' he said.

``To now suggest we shouldn't be allowed to have low-level safari hunting is totally inconsistent.

``These bureaucrats in Canberra are saying it's OK to get rid of problem crocs but they don't want safari hunting.

``Maybe what's needed is for the Canberra mob to get themselves away from the shores of Lake Burley-Griffin and come up to have a look at the reality of crocodiles in Top End waterways.

``We're proposing a strictly-regulated operation that will increase economic opportunities, largely for remote Aboriginal communities.''

Ray Hall, of the Bawinanga Aboriginal Corporation in Maningrida, said he was disappointed at the expected knock-back.

``It will be a decision made by people in cities in Australia who have no concept of the reality of living in a part of the world with crocodiles,'' he said.

``Managing and using the population is a conservation tool, and the revenue from safaris would provide money to further monitor and research crocodiles.''





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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39249
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Croc hunting update. [Re: Bakes]
      #6802 - 11/01/04 08:12 PM

I think we should start a letter writing campaign to support this and also to push for a limited number of permits to be issued directly to Australian RESIDENT hunters.

If 25 permits were issued perhaps 10 (or at least 5) should be available to residents. Perhaps like the Hog Deer schemes where people send in $10 and go into a draw. The lucky resident hunter could then arrange private property to hunt on or do a deal with an outfitter.

We do not want to have a situation in this country where only weathly foreignors do the limited and restricted hunting.


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Croc hunting update. [Re: NitroX]
      #6822 - 12/01/04 09:04 AM

In reply to:

We do not want to have a situation in this country where only weathly foreignors do the limited and restricted hunting.




How about poor foreigners? Just one? Please? I won't tell anyone.

It's a good thing they don't think that way in Africa isn't it.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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cchunter
.375 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 744
Loc: Kinna, Sweden
Re: Croc hunting update. [Re: mickey]
      #6825 - 12/01/04 09:15 AM

Howdy Mates, hope I wont be counted as a foreigner after all time spent on this forum???


Any good photos of nice crocs??

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Christer Hansson


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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Croc hunting update. [Re: cchunter]
      #6831 - 12/01/04 09:55 AM

Well i say fuck em (crocs) read on folks!

Philosopher Val Plumwood survived a crocodile attack while paddling in a canoe in Kakadu nine years ago.

I was in a canoe on a side channel of the East Alligator River in Kakadu, looking for an Aboriginal rock art site. I had been out the previous day and it had been idyllic. This day began with drizzle, which progressed into torrential rain. By early afternoon I had a strong feeling of being watched and suddenly the canoe seemed flimsy. I had a sense of danger or vulnerability and decided I wanted to go back.

I started paddling back down the channel and hadn't got far when I saw what looked like a stick ahead of me. As I was swept towards it I saw eyes and realised it was a crocodile.

I was almost past it when there was this great blow on the side of the canoe. I paddled furiously but it followed, bashing on the canoe. I looked for a place to get out, but couldn't see one. I felt sheer terror. I saw a tree growing from the water near the bank and thought maybe I could leap into it. I got ready to jump and as I did so, the crocodile came up close. I looked straight into its eyes and it looked straight into mine. It had beautiful golden-flecked eyes. I remember those vividly.


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I did the thing you're advised to do, to try to look fearsome: I waved my arms and shouted. It might work with tigers but it doesn't work with crocodiles.

Then I jumped, but it got me in mid jump. I saw this blur, a flash of teeth and water as it grabbed me between the legs and took me down for a death roll. I thought: "I'm not food, I'm a human being; I don't believe this."

There was searing pain, but the worst thing was the roll, which seemed to last forever. It pushes water in your lungs and it felt like my arms and legs were coming off. When it finished, my head came clear of the water and I coughed the water out of my lungs and started to howl with pain. Then the crocodile pushed me into the second death roll.

We came up again, and this time right next to me was a big, solid, branch so I grabbed on to it. I hung on grimly, thinking I'd sooner let it tear me apart than go through another death roll.

Then, suddenly, I felt the pressure relax and realised the crocodile had let go. I tried again to jump into the tree. This time it grabbed me around the leg - the upper left thigh, which was badly damaged.

It took me down for a third death roll. Again I thought I was going to die. I just thought it was going to take a long time over it, which seemed worse than having it kill me straight out.

But a minute later it let me go, again. I gave up on the tree and tried to throw myself at the mud bank. After several tries, I got to the top and stood up and couldn't believe it; I was still alive. It was an incredible rush of elation. Because I was still in danger, I flopped away, finding my leg was in bad shape. I had shock right through my body and was feeling pretty sick; I tried lying down but felt worse, so continued to walk back in the direction of the ranger's station. I felt just a glimmer of hope that I might survive.

The rain was still torrential and it took me hours to reach the lagoon between me and the ranger station. At this stage, I started to black out and had to crawl. But then the rain stopped and it was still, abnormally still, and so the ranger heard me shouting.

Then I had a 13-hour trip to Darwin hospital. I almost lost the leg in hospital but I recovered after almost a month in intensive care and another month of skin grafts.

It was really a life-changing event for me. Those final experiences have an incredible intensity - that's why they have such a life-changing power. You see things at that point which you wouldn't normally see; it strips away a lot of your illusions about life and death. It was quite a while before I took in the full extent of how it changed my way of looking at the world. It left me with a strong sense of gratitude about being alive, which has faded but never really gone, and a feeling that life is not to be wasted.

The experience also changed my overall theoretical outlook and had a big impact on the direction of my work. It forced me to rethink a lot of things - life, death, being human, and being food. Before the crocodile, I wrote about the value of nature, but after the crocodile, I started writing about how we see ourselves as outside nature, about the power of nature and our illusions that we can control it, that we're not embodied beings and are apart from other animals.

During the encounter I had a sense that it was all a dream, that it wasn't really happening. But I now think it's ordinary life and consciousness that is the dream. We don't understand ourselves as ecological beings that are part of the food chain - we're still fighting that knowledge.

During the attack, it seemed as if I'd entered a parallel universe where I didn't count for anything, I was just a piece of meat. So I've had to develop a different idea of eating and being food, where we must honour our food and the more-than-food that all of us are, including other life forms. I don't believe we do this when we treat other animals as no more than food.

It also changed my view of death. I used to be a conventional atheist, thinking that you live your life and the story ends completely with death, that there's nothing at all after that, no immaterial world you go on to without your body. Now I still think there's no other world, but I don't think the story ends with your death. The story passes on to the other life forms you nurture with your death, nurturing those who have nurtured you, in a chain of mutual life-giving.



--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Croc hunting update. [Re: gryphon]
      #6834 - 12/01/04 10:03 AM

NT plans Indigenous croc safari jobs
The Northern Territory Government says Aboriginal communities on Arnhem Land or on the Tiwi Islands north of Darwin have the potential to run safari hunts for saltwater crocodiles.

NT Parks and Wildlife Minister Chris Burns supports the proposal included as part of a draft management plan for the reptile which was released last year.

The public has until January 23 to comment on the plan, but Federal Government officials have already indicated they do not support safari hunts for crocodiles, saying it contravenes the international convention on trade on endangered species.

Mr Burns says he has not officially heard from Federal Environment Minister Dr David Kemp and he is hoping to lobby him to support it.

"Certainly it opens up avenues for Aboriginal people in terms of their economy and they look upon the crocodile as a resource, as a very important part of their lives, and I think it is a very interesting proposal," Mr Burns said.


--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39249
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Croc hunting update. [Re: gryphon]
      #6838 - 12/01/04 11:09 AM

Citizen schemes are quite normal in many places around the world. For example the USA where a state resident gets very low licence fees, and out of state USA resident gets somewhat higher licence fees and foreignors like us Aussies get to hunt with outfitters and pay higher prices than Africa for one or two animals intead of 10.

I got all excited about twenty years ago when looking at non-resident prices and thought, "these aren't bad" and then found out they meant - non-state USA residents only.

Hey Mickey, you don't mind me being an illegal alien living with you for the last five years so I can do some res/non-res hunting? Especially if Bushies new illegal aliens become legal aliens bill goes ahead.

Well in any case hope the croc safari idea gets going. The crocs up there need some shaking up and the fear of man put in them.

I bet one of the best places to find them is the bait areas. Where the local kids go swimming.

PS If the prices are too high well, you know what locals will do to get one ...... Same as buff and banteng.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Croc hunting update. [Re: NitroX]
      #6843 - 12/01/04 12:10 PM

In reply to:

Hey Mickey, you don't mind me being an illegal alien living with you for the last five years so I can do some res/non-res hunting? Especially if Bushies new illegal aliens become legal aliens bill goes ahead.




Naw mate, not at all. Just bring your 450 and allot of Wine and your welcome. You can stay at my house while I move up to Canada to get residency there.

I have a friend with a Car Wash that employs your kind. (illegals, I mean )

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

Edited by mickey (12/01/04 12:13 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39249
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Croc hunting update. [Re: mickey]
      #6844 - 12/01/04 12:14 PM

Just call me an illegitimate son, everyone else does.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39249
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Croc hunting update. [Re: gryphon]
      #6845 - 12/01/04 12:18 PM

In reply to:

Federal Government officials have already indicated they do not support safari hunts for crocodiles, saying it contravenes the international convention on trade on endangered species.




1. Saltwater crocdiles are no longer endangered.

2. The Federal pollies are trying to say "hunting" is against CITES and the ideas of "sustainable conservation".

Maybe they should talk to the real "sustainable conservation" programme organisers in Southern Africa.

And how could be "hunting" agaisnt "sustainable conservation" under CITES when CITES allows hunting of all sorts of listed animals.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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RLI
.375 member


Reged: 01/10/03
Posts: 534
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Croc hunting update. [Re: cchunter]
      #6856 - 12/01/04 09:12 PM

anyone who kills a Croc is most welcome.

RLI

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne


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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Croc hunting update. [Re: RLI]
      #6869 - 13/01/04 07:24 AM

Mate shot an 18 footer that was rolled up in his nets one time up north.........the big fella`s are a constant source of annoyance as the just smash their way through barra nets,pic shows teeth from a 14 footer and of course it was found dead on the shoreline


--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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