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Hunting >> Hunting in Australia, NZ & the South Pacific
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Bakes
.375 member


Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
Sambar the .270 and 130gr bullet
      #6678 - 09/01/04 03:48 AM

Why is this calibre the minium for sambar in Vic? Who made the decision? Did they consult anybody?

The reason I'm asking this is that the 140gr 6.5 bullet would out penetrate the 130gr .270 bullet. It would out perform the 30/30 which by the rules is legal, so is the 44 mag, and a hole host of calibres that would not perform as well as the mighty 6.5. Can this rule be changed?

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Sambar the .270 and 130gr bullet [Re: Bakes]
      #6696 - 09/01/04 05:41 PM

Why is this calibre the minium for sambar in Vic? Who made the decision? Did they consult anybody?

I dont know Bakesey but when you talk 44`s and 30.30`s mate and that big stag is two hundred away on an opposite ridge i would rather have the 270 mate anyday

I have a mate that has a 264 winny mag and its illegal too but i suppose they have to start somewhere with a set standard for us all to start with.

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Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Bakes
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Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
Re: Sambar the .270 and 130gr bullet [Re: gryphon]
      #6728 - 09/01/04 11:02 PM

I agree Gryph but a person with a knowledge of firearms would know that the .264/6.5-284/6.5x55 would be suitable as well. I suppose the rules came out at a time when the .270 was popular and the 6.5's were not well known.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40440
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Sambar the .270 and 130gr bullet [Re: Bakes]
      #6730 - 10/01/04 01:56 AM

I think one would have to look a long way to find a round to out penetrate a 160 gr 6.5 mm round nose.

High sectional density and at moderate velocities should be able to kill any deer.

Just ask the Swedes what they use for moose.


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Sambar the .270 and 130gr bullet [Re: NitroX]
      #6742 - 10/01/04 07:47 AM

One thing is for sure that people that havent been right into the nitty gritty side of s/stag hunting often dont realise how heavily muscled a big stag is from walking through heavily forested super steep mountain country all their lives...and muscle means hardness of an extroadinary type which often does not seem to show up in other deer species although they too live in mountainous areas,these deer are hard to hunt and extra hard in the body muscle as well and i can certainly see the need for a min cal although many were shot with 30 cal m1 carbines in the early days of hound hunting with generally an enormous dose of lead from a 20 round magazine,one fella here shot an enormous amount with a 243 but i suspect that many were hit and then bailed by the hounds to enable a kill shot to be placed.I tend to think myself that some of the rounds talked about here could be on the marginal side of things in the hands of a less experienced hunter and by that i mean the type of person that simply hasnt seen enough deer in his sights to not go to water and lose everything that he has learnt when confronted suddenly by a "good one".
So many hunters simply put themselves into an almost panic situation and freak out and thus can place a marginal bullet in a not so good area..ie a lesser round in the shoulder muscle resulting in not so good penetration as compared to behind the shoulder which would mean a certain kill.Its hard to beat a 270,`06,7mm etc for ease of handling/recoil etc as all round sambar rifles for anyone stepping into hunting first up rather than going into the much talked about heavier 338`s375`s etc which i believe result in much game lost due to new hunters being a little shy of them.


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Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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ARRA
.224 member


Reged: 18/09/03
Posts: 47
Loc: Riverina,NSW,AUST
Re: Sambar the .270 and 130gr bullet [Re: gryphon]
      #6762 - 10/01/04 04:01 PM

Bakes,
Good question.But do you know the best part about my m96 being just under legal cal .I can justify getting a new rifle.
Just waiting for the permit to acquire to come back from the firearms registry.7 weeks and counting!

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Far_Canel
.224 member


Reged: 02/01/04
Posts: 23
Re: Sambar the .270 and 130gr bullet [Re: ARRA]
      #7049 - 17/01/04 06:43 PM

PTA's in QLD two weeks tops!
I have put one in on the monday and got it back thursday.
(only once)

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416SW
.224 member


Reged: 21/01/04
Posts: 37
Loc: Melb Aust
Re: Sambar the .270 and 130gr bullet [Re: Bakes]
      #7211 - 21/01/04 01:19 PM

Bakes the 44mag is not legal there is a min case lehgth of 2"-51mm, thats case - not COL. The regs have been like that since atleast 1986 when I started deer hunting and may well be unchanged since 1975 when a lot of the regs were written.
All the deer in Vic except hog deer have the same centrefire restriction.
What I would like to know is why 12ga slug is not legal.
Slugs were a permit only to buy here in Vic for a long time.

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Bakes
.375 member


Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
Re: Sambar the .270 and 130gr bullet [Re: 416SW]
      #7231 - 21/01/04 11:22 PM

Well there you go, didn't know that. Thanks for the info. Perhaps its time for an overhaul of the regs.

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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Sambar the .270 and 130gr bullet [Re: Bakes]
      #7246 - 22/01/04 06:56 AM

In reality i feel that the old 44 would struggle to put a big stag down (shoulder hit) mate......these things aint some old boar mate............would rather have an ugly heavy full wood smelly in my mitt than a 44 for a big un.

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Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Bakes
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Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
Re: Sambar the .270 and 130gr bullet [Re: gryphon]
      #7257 - 22/01/04 12:33 PM

What do you think of the 45-70 for Sambar Gryph? Enough ooomf? Is this round used by many people?

Edited by Bakes (22/01/04 12:35 PM)

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416SW
.224 member


Reged: 21/01/04
Posts: 37
Loc: Melb Aust
Re: Sambar the .270 and 130gr bullet [Re: Bakes]
      #7264 - 22/01/04 02:35 PM

Bakes I have a friend who has shot over 100 sambar but only 5 with the 45/70 says he likes the 45/70 as a sambar rifle. Furthest shot was at 120yds the first shot went through both shoulders and stopped under the skin, followed up by 2 further shots to stop it. Winchester factory ammo.
He has a strong dislike for the 270win says it is responsible for a lot of lost sambar.
other cartridges he has used
35 Whelan
308 win
300 win
375 H&H
30-06 (he still uses this one and the 45/70)
Plus his bow

I know another bloke who swears by the 270 as a sambar rifle calls it the "beltless magnum" although he has shot less than 30.

An allful lot have been shot with the 303.
The 30-06 woody was very popular with doggers until the bastards took them.
Have been out a couple of times with the 416 but yet to see one, in years past have also gone hunting with 270 and 308 but no shots fired.

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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Sambar the .270 and 130gr bullet [Re: 416SW]
      #7291 - 23/01/04 06:38 AM

"Furthest shot was at 120yds the first shot went through both shoulders and stopped under the skin, followed up by 2 further shots to stop it. Winchester factory ammo."


In answer to that i have nailed enough to know that any deer i have shot square in the shoulder with my old 7mm DIE!Follow up shots are generally not needed but are thrown anyway as they are dead on their feet but of course we dont know that for sure so give em more.(i use winny factory bullets)


Very few out of the registered 10,00 or so deer hunters in Vic use em Bakesey,of course they have the oomph within their own working limits of course...could be a little limited for that real long shot across a broad gully though mate.
If all i had was one of this cal i would of course be happy to walk about the bush with it mate.

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Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Les
.224 member


Reged: 04/05/03
Posts: 33
Re: Sambar the .270 and 130gr bullet [Re: Bakes]
      #7398 - 24/01/04 03:30 PM

Hi Bakes, I'm coming in a bit late here but that question of who made the rules and regs for adequate chamberings for the hunting of Sambar was (please correct me anyone if I'm wrong) made by the "Deer Advisory Council of Vic." in 1976 or 1977, Now before that, many Sambar were taken yeah, but many more were lost due to the use of inadequate chamberings, it had to start somewhere, just like our speed limits say in a 70klm zone why isn't it 80klm.,you know 50 or 60 or so years ago hunters were using 44/40's 38/40's old snider .577's etc but what I've heard from old timers many years ago the Sambar was thick on the ground bloody plentiful mate and on the doorstep of Melbourne. If it was up to me and I was on that council the 30.06 and the 180gn proj. would have been the min.
When I first moved to country Victoria from W.A. many years ago (married a bloody Vic and still married)Sambar was No.one on my list and I had no idea how to hunt them but by chance I was at the local gun shop in Shepparton when a bloke overheard me asking the bloke over the counter about Sambar, anyway we got chatting and he invited me to come up with him and his son to hunt Sambar, that day I will never forget and that was some 30yrs ago, been a long road and many deer and I stick by the 30.06 as min. I been using a Win. super express 375H&H for some time now, I love it, maybe a "overkill" but I've always liked something different it handles like a top grade shotgun and me being 6'1" and 15stone of rippling muscle (yeah sorry that's the piss talking more like a beer gut) can shoot it like a .22 on rabbit..ahh where's that next beer,,,,,ahhh got it...

Gryphon yeah back in town for the night mate my ships got a lay over this weekend, when you coming to Melbourne so we can have a beer (your shout haha) I read somewhere you are coming down and if I'm still onboard you can come down to the ship for a beer and a feed or if I'm off we can get together ashore..let me know..I'll check this site tomorrow 25th 10.00hrs, or just post and I might be able to check it in a week or so...take it easy mate...Les

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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Sambar the .270 and 130gr bullet [Re: Les]
      #7413 - 25/01/04 06:59 AM

Hey Les i have been and gone mate and as it was i had the offspring with me mate and didnt have time to scratch myself,i will catch up one day and we will more`n likely hunt together seeing as you are so big and strong.....always a good addition to a hunt camp haha.Good to see you back on board here as any deer hunters are of course most welcome.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Sambar the .270 and 130gr bullet [Re: gryphon]
      #13189 - 07/04/04 10:17 PM

I know a little about the 130 gn projectile and the 270 calibre..
There had to be a cut off point somewhere and that happened to be it.
I know a couple of the people concerned with the minimum cal for sambar ,let me assure you the are or were experienced hunters..
Nick Harvey and I discussed this very subject whilst I lived in Ballandean QLD.
Nick was hunting fallow on Warwick Freemans place at the time.
I was using a mod 96 in 6.5 x55 and my mate was using a 270 ruger he bought of Peter Luhrs.
Nick said in his opinion the 6.5 using 140 gn bullets was a better deer rifle than the 270,however on sambar the cut off was 270 and 130 gn projectiles.End of story.

Quote from DCNR brochure.
Centre fire min.legal cal 6.85(270)
Legal case length 51mm (2")
Legal projectile weight 14.91g (130gns)

Black Powder muzzle loader.min cal .45, projectile must be a minie weighing no less than230 gns.
Hope the above has helped.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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